MP 7,1 Most won’t be able to afford a new Mac Pro

[satchmo]

As excited we are with any announcement at WWDC, realistically, the majority of Mac enthusiasts likely won’t be able to afford a Mac Pro.

Prices will likely start around $5K, so unless you’re a professional, or a company that needs the horsepower, you might be better off with an iMac.

I doubt we’ll ever see a $1500-$2500 breakout tower. It’s not like the old days where a hobbyist can afford to tinker with an expansion slot based G4 Power Mac or Cheese Grater Mac.

 

[fhturner]

Says who? We don't even know **IF** there will ever be another Mac Pro, much less what configuration it will offer and how much it will cost. Despite Apple's statement that there would be one, that was TWO YEARS AGO, and we've heard nothing since. If there actually is an unveil, there's no guarantee that it will be prohibitively expensive (although I certainly wouldn't put it past Apple to make yet another boneheaded decision here...they do still have the trash can for sale @ $3000 somehow).

I see many people "pre-lamenting" that any new Mac Pro will be super-expensive, so it won't be a success or they won't be able to afford it. This may be based on the $5000 iMac Pro entry price, but very few recognize that w/ the iMac Pro, you're getting a ~$1500 5K display included. So I don't think that $5000 price tag guarantees an expensive Mac Pro. But again, the "realization" of the "backing into a thermal corner" was TWO YEARS AGO, and THAT was FOUR YEARS after the development of the Mac Pro, so I'll not worry too much about the theoretically high cost of a 5-year-overdue revision of the Mac Pro until there's actually some acknowledgement by Apple that Mac Pro is still an active product line.

 

[satchmo]

Naturally nothing is certain until it ships. But I'd be very surprised if Apple changed it's mind on delivering a Mac Pro.

There are reports of big name film editors consulting Apple with their workflow needs. Apple wants to be the platform of choice for creatives. While the numbers of Mac Pros sold will be relatively small compared to iMacs, the margins should be great enough especially if their client base is Hollywood and movie studios.

An if an iMac Pro which comes with a 5K display, would a standalone Mac Pro be $3500? I think this is low given their target audience and how much development they're putting into this. Regardless, my assertion is that an empty bare bones expandable tower for $1500 is highly unlikely. It would simply destroy sales both the iMac and mac Mini.

 

[phairphan]

While that initial presser was two years ago, Apple just last year said the redesigned Mac Pro would be a 2019 product. While we’ve heard very little from Apple, to say we’ve heard nothing for two years is inaccurate.

Says who? We don't even know **IF** there will ever be another Mac Pro, much less what configuration it will offer and how much it will cost. Despite Apple's statement that there would be one, that was TWO YEARS AGO, and we've heard nothing since. If there actually is an unveil, there's no guarantee that it will be prohibitively expensive (although I certainly wouldn't put it past Apple to make yet another boneheaded decision here...they do still have the trash can for sale @ $3000 somehow).

I see many people "pre-lamenting" that any new Mac Pro will be super-expensive, so it won't be a success or they won't be able to afford it. This may be based on the $5000 iMac Pro entry price, but very few recognize that w/ the iMac Pro, you're getting a ~$1500 5K display included. So I don't think that $5000 price tag guarantees an expensive Mac Pro. But again, the "realization" of the "backing into a thermal corner" was TWO YEARS AGO, and THAT was FOUR YEARS after the development of the Mac Pro, so I'll not worry too much about the theoretically high cost of a 5-year-overdue revision of the Mac Pro until there's actually some acknowledgement by Apple that Mac Pro is still an active product line.

 

[tsialex]

Naturally nothing is certain until it ships. But I'd be very surprised if Apple changed it's mind on delivering a Mac Pro.

There are reports of big name film editors consulting Apple with their workflow needs. Apple wants to be the platform of choice for creatives. While the numbers of Mac Pros sold will be relatively small compared to iMacs, the margins should be great enough especially if their client base is Hollywood and movie studios.

An if an iMac Pro which comes with a 5K display, would a standalone Mac Pro be $3500? I think this is low given their target audience and how much development they're putting into this. Regardless, my assertion is that an empty bare bones expandable tower for $1500 is highly unlikely. It would simply destroy sales both the iMac and mac Mini.

Apple never had a Mac Pro for less than $2499,00, even if you count the downgraded 2006 with 2.0 Xeons still costs $2299, why do you think that a new one will be cheaper since everything Apple is costlier today?

Mac Pro is a niche product with low sales volume, it won’t be cheaper.

Edit:

You can still read the press releases and check prices:

2006 Mac Pro (2x2core 2.66GHz $2499) August 7, 2006 PRESS RELEASE Apple Unveils New Mac Pro Featuring Quad 64-bit Xeon Processors
2007 Mac Pro (8core $2799*) no PR
2008 Mac Pro (8core $2799) January 8, 2008 PRESS RELEASE Apple Introduces New Mac Pro
2009 Mac Pro (4core $2499, 8core $3299) March 3, 2009 PRESS RELEASE Apple Introduces New Mac Pro
2010 Mac Pro (4core $2499, 8core $3499, 12core $4999*) July 27, 2010 PRESS RELEASE Apple Unveils New Mac Pro With Up to 12 Processing Cores
2012 Mac Pro (4core $2499*, 8core $3799*) no PR
2013 Mac Pro (4core $2999, 6core $3999) December 18, 2013 PRESS RELEASE All New Mac Pro Available Starting Tomorrow

*Mactracker prices.

 

[satchmo]

Apple never had a Mac Pro for less than $2499,00, why do you think that a new one will be cheaper since everything Apple is costlier today?

Mac Pro is a niche product with low sales volume, it won’t be cheaper.

Did I say it was going to be cheaper?
I said the exact opposite.

 

[s15119]

Exactly what are you basing your information on? Do you have some insider information about the prices of machines that are not even being built yet?

 

[Zdigital2015]

As excited we are with any announcement at WWDC, realistically, the majority of Mac enthusiasts likely won’t be able to afford a Mac Pro.

Prices will likely start around $5K, so unless you’re a professional, or a company that needs the horsepower, you might be better off with an iMac.

I doubt we’ll ever see a $1500-$2500 breakout tower. It’s not like the old days where a hobbyist can afford to tinker with an expansion slot based G4 Power Mac or Cheese Grater Mac.

Basically, that was Steve's intention all along...the elimination of the expandable tower at the lower price point ($1,499-$2,499). Single processor G4s were fairly economical, but dual CPU models were quite expensive. The G5 continued that trend and introduced higher end materials and construction taking the notion of a Pro machine further upmarket. The 2006 Mac Pro started at $2499 and went up from there. The iMac was supposed to be the computer for most of us and the Mac Pro was for that narrow Pro segment, which is how they justified the higher price tag.

The ability to open it up and change out DRAM, storage, GPUs and add other PCIe cards was appropriate for the market segment that the Mac Pro was targeting. The Late 2013 Mac Pro was a philosophical change and look what happened.

I will take a wait and see attitude towards the Mac Pro to see how much bang for the buck the professional can expect to get. Yes, I expect it to start at $3,999 or $4,999 and move up from there. I also expect it to start at 8 or 10 cores as well, possibly even 12/14, but nothing less than 8-cores.

 

[satchmo]

Exactly what are you basing your information on? Do you have some insider information about the prices of machines that are not even being built yet?

Purely conjecture. That’s what forums are for, right?

 

[fermat-au]

Basically, that was Steve's intention all along...the elimination of the expandable tower at the lower price point ($1,499-$2,499). Single processor G4s were fairly economical, but dual CPU models were quite expensive. The G5 continued that trend and introduced higher end materials and construction taking the notion of a Pro machine further upmarket. The 2006 Mac Pro started at $2499 and went up from there. The iMac was supposed to be the computer for most of us and the Mac Pro was for that narrow Pro segment, which is how they justified the higher price tag.

The ability to open it up and change out DRAM, storage, GPUs and add other PCIe cards was appropriate for the market segment that the Mac Pro was targeting. The Late 2013 Mac Pro was a philosophical change and look what happened.

I will take a wait and see attitude towards the Mac Pro to see how much bang for the buck the professional can expect to get. Yes, I expect it to start at $3,999 or $4,999 and move up from there. I also expect it to start at 8 or 10 cores as well, possibly even 12/14, but nothing less than 8-cores.

You mension something that I have also observed: Over the last 10 - 15 years Apple have pushed the price of the PowerMac/MacPro up and also moved the iMac up the line in price and performance. The first iMac was a low to mid-range desktop, today Apple ships the iMac that is intended for the high-end of the Mac user base. I think this thread in part is about making the Mac, as a whole, less upgradable. Until recently if didn't want an all-in-one you choices were the under-powered dual-core Mac mini or the very expensive and out dated Mac Pro. Apple was, at one stage going to kill the Mac Pro and replace it with the iMac Pro. I think for some at Apple this new Mac Pro is a reluctant product that they don't really want to make.

 

[satchmo]

You mension something that I have also observed: Over the last 10 - 15 years Apple have pushed the price of the PowerMac/MacPro up and also moved the iMac up the line in price and performance. The first iMac was a low to mid-range desktop, today Apple ships the iMac that is intended for the high-end of the Mac user base. I think this thread in part is about making the Mac, as a whole, less upgradable. Until recently if didn't want an all-in-one you choices were the under-powered dual-core Mac mini or the very expensive and out dated Mac Pro. Apple was, at one stage going to kill the Mac Pro and replace it with the iMac Pro. I think for some at Apple this new Mac Pro is a reluctant product that they don't really want to make.

I think that's true in part. They realize an expandable headless Mac Pro greatly reduces the need to update every few years. Then again, they also don't want to leave money on the table. Or cede the video/editing market to Windows PCs.

Another reason they'll price this with high enough margins to offset those potential lost sales. And why a rumoured 31" 6K display will likely be launched aside it.

 

[thomasthegps]

I'm not overly concerned with the price aspect of the Mac Pro. Mac Pros have always been expensive. What I'm afraid of is the new "modular design". If they come out with a Mac Pro that looks like a whole bunch on Mac minis stacked up, that would be way worse than an overpriced tower.

Their best move honestly would be a cheese grader Mac Pro with updated internals.

 

[Slash-2CPU]

Mac Pro 2008 Quad-core 2.8 Base price was $2299. That's $2700 in 2019 dollars.
Mac Pro 5,1 6-core 3.33 was $3699. That's $4300 in 2019 dollars.
Mac Pro 6,1 6-core 5.3 was $3999 in introduction. That's $4700 in 2019 dollars.

Starting price may be closer to $5499.

If you want to tinker, get a used 6,1 after the 7,1 is out. The value of those will probably drop like a stone.

 

[macguru9999]

If you want to tinker, get a used 6,1 after the 7,1 is out. The value of those will probably drop like a stone.

I agree, the used 6,1 will be an affordable alternative to a new mac mini for those that just need a desktop machine without a nest of peripherals. You could also put it next to the g4 cube in your collection of funky mac shapes

 

[filterdecay]

Mac Pro 2008 Quad-core 2.8 Base price was $2299. That's $2700 in 2019 dollars.
Mac Pro 5,1 6-core 3.33 was $3699. That's $4300 in 2019 dollars.
Mac Pro 6,1 6-core 5.3 was $3999 in introduction. That's $4700 in 2019 dollars.

Starting price may be closer to $5499.

If you want to tinker, get a used 6,1 after the 7,1 is out. The value of those will probably drop like a stone.

The price of parts has always been competitive with workstation makers. If you want to see prices look at a modern z4 or z8 workstation depending on the size they decide to go with.
[doublepost=1559445669][/doublepost]https://store.hp.com/us/en/mdp/desk...p_z8_workstations/herobanner-buynow#!&tab=vao

$2400 to $3400 starting price from those bog standard prebuilds.

 

[ssgbryan]

Basically, that was Steve's intention all along...the elimination of the expandable tower at the lower price point ($1,499-$2,499). Single processor G4s were fairly economical, but dual CPU models were quite expensive. The G5 continued that trend and introduced higher end materials and construction taking the notion of a Pro machine further upmarket. The 2006 Mac Pro started at $2499 and went up from there. The iMac was supposed to be the computer for most of us and the Mac Pro was for that narrow Pro segment, which is how they justified the higher price tag.

The ability to open it up and change out DRAM, storage, GPUs and add other PCIe cards was appropriate for the market segment that the Mac Pro was targeting. The Late 2013 Mac Pro was a philosophical change and look what happened.

I will take a wait and see attitude towards the Mac Pro to see how much bang for the buck the professional can expect to get. Yes, I expect it to start at $3,999 or $4,999 and move up from there. I also expect it to start at 8 or 10 cores as well, possibly even 12/14, but nothing less than 8-cores.

If it starts at $4k for 12 cores it will be DOA.

It isn't 2016 anymore.

 

[Pressure]

Mac Pro 2008 Quad-core 2.8 Base price was $2299. That's $2700 in 2019 dollars.
Mac Pro 5,1 6-core 3.33 was $3699. That's $4300 in 2019 dollars.
Mac Pro 6,1 6-core 5.3 was $3999 in introduction. That's $4700 in 2019 dollars.

Starting price may be closer to $5499.

If you want to tinker, get a used 6,1 after the 7,1 is out. The value of those will probably drop like a stone.

The base models, be it the 2008, 2009 and 2010 (2012) all started within $200 of each other. Around $2,499.

It was the garbage can that increased the starting price to $2,999.

 

[skippermonkey]

I will.

 

[flygbuss]

Mac Pro 2008 Quad-core 2.8 Base price was $2299. That's $2700 in 2019 dollars.
Mac Pro 5,1 6-core 3.33 was $3699. That's $4300 in 2019 dollars.
Mac Pro 6,1 6-core 5.3 was $3999 in introduction. That's $4700 in 2019 dollars.

Starting price may be closer to $5499.

If you want to tinker, get a used 6,1 after the 7,1 is out. The value of those will probably drop like a stone.

The 5,1 and 6,1 you are referring to are not the base models.

The 5,1 started in 2012 at 2499,- Dollar and the 6,1 started at 2999,- Dollar. So the difference to the 3,1 base model starting price is actually not that big.
[doublepost=1559467846][/doublepost]

The base models, be it the 2008, 2009 and 2010 (2012) all started within $200 of each other. Around $2,499.

It was the garbage can that increased the starting price to $2,999.

You beat me to it.

 

[macguru9999]

I will.

me too

 

[skippermonkey]

me too

Been waiting seven+ years, and not bought a desktop machine in all that tine. Even if it's $10,000, doesn't bother me one bit. I nearly spent £6K on an iMac Pro, but decided to wait.

 

[Pressure]

Been waiting seven+ years, and not bought a desktop machine in all that tine. Even if it's $10,000, doesn't bother me one bit. I nearly spent £6K on an iMac Pro, but decided to wait.

Well, there is a difference between being able to afford a tool and work with one.

Everyone who needed better performance or features have already left ship. Otherwise you would be leaving money on the table.

The rest of us are just watching the freak show unfold however slowly. Honestly, it's a morbid curiosity at this point for me. At least the waiting time should be almost up.

 

[Boil]

Base modular Mac Pro - $3799

24C/48T CPU (64C/128T maximum BTO)
Eight DIMM slots (4@16GB standard; 256GB maximum BTO)
T2 / NVME SSD(s) system (2TB standard, 8TB maximum BTO)
Two PCIe 4.0 x16 slots
One PCIe 4.0 x8 slot
Four TB3 / USB-C ports
Four USB-A ports
One 10Gb Ethernet port
One 1Gb Ethernet port
One 3.5mm headphone jack
1.5kW PSU

Radeon VII & RX 5000-series GPUs BTO (low end Navi GPU standard)
Navi 20 / Big Navi available Q2 2020 BTO

Third-party PCIe 4.0 x16 RAID cards available at launch (holds up to four M.2 NVMe SSDs, 15GB/s read/writes)
Third-party PCIe 4.0 x8 12G 8K SDI video I/O cards available at launch
[doublepost=1559487771][/doublepost]Base modular xMac - $1999

6C/12T CPU (16C/32T maximum BTO
Four DIMM slots (2@16GB standard; 128GB maximum BTO)
T2 / NVME SSD system (1TB standard, 4TB maximum BTO)
One PCIe 4.0 x16 slot
Four TB3 / USB-C ports
Four USB-A ports
One 1Gb Ethernet port (10Gb Ethernet port BTO)
One 3.5mm headphone jack
750W PSU

Radeon VII & RX 5000-series GPUs BTO (low end Navi GPU standard)
Navi 20 / Big Navi available Q2 2020 BTO

 

[skippermonkey]

Well, there is a difference between being able to afford a tool and work with one.

Everyone who needed better performance or features have already left ship. Otherwise you would be leaving money on the table.

The rest of us are just watching the freak show unfold however slowly. Honestly, it's a morbid curiosity at this point for me. At least the waiting time should be almost up.

I don't need the machine for work, its just for mucking about with CG and doing the odd bit of freelance. I would rather drop a load of cash than use a Windows machine (although maybe one day). I can easily afford it – I just hope it's worth buying.

 

[Zdigital2015]

Base modular Mac Pro - $3799

24C/48T CPU (64C/128T maximum BTO)
Eight DIMM slots (4@16GB standard; 256GB maximum BTO)
T2 / NVME SSD(s) system (2TB standard, 8TB maximum BTO)
Two PCIe 4.0 x16 slots
One PCIe 4.0 x8 slot
Four TB3 / USB-C ports
Four USB-A ports
One 10Gb Ethernet port
One 1Gb Ethernet port
One 3.5mm headphone jack
1.5kW PSU

Radeon VII & RX 5000-series GPUs BTO (low end Navi GPU standard)
Navi 20 / Big Navi available Q2 2020 BTO

Third-party PCIe 4.0 x16 RAID cards available at launch (holds up to four M.2 NVMe SSDs, 15GB/s read/writes)
Third-party PCIe 4.0 x8 12G 8K SDI video I/O cards available at launch
[doublepost=1559487771][/doublepost]Base modular xMac - $1999

6C/12T CPU (16C/32T maximum BTO
Four DIMM slots (2@16GB standard; 128GB maximum BTO)
T2 / NVME SSD system (1TB standard, 4TB maximum BTO)
One PCIe 4.0 x16 slot
Four TB3 / USB-C ports
Four USB-A ports
One 1Gb Ethernet port (10Gb Ethernet port BTO)
One 3.5mm headphone jack
750W PSU

Radeon VII & RX 5000-series GPUs BTO (low end Navi GPU standard)
Navi 20 / Big Navi available Q2 2020 BTO

An Intel Xeon Platinum 8260 CPU with 24/48 costs $4,702.00 alone, so I am pretty sure that you have gone off into the realm of fantasy at this point.

Apple is not moving to AMD TR or EPYC, nor is Apple moving to ARM...potential customers should be realistic about the fact that Intel is what Apple is going to use for this Mac Pro.

More realistic would be $3999 for 8c/16t Xeon-W/24GB RAM-6 slots/512GB SSD/AMD Vega 56/4 PCIe 3.0 slots, 2 x16, 2 x4/802.11AC/BT 5.0/4 TB3/4 USB Type-A/2-10GbE standard, shipping in the Fall.

Adjust your expectations accordingly...
[doublepost=1559489778][/doublepost]

If it starts at $4k for 12 cores it will be DOA.

It isn't 2016 anymore.

Again, for better OR worse, Apple is not competing with PC OEMs or DIY builds with its computers and so I envision 8/10 cores at that price point, not 14 or 18.

While AMD May have shifted the paradigm for price and cores versus Intel, Apple is going to stick with Intel for this Mac Pro...no AMD CPU, no ARM CPU.

So, for many, it will be DOA...and I am sure that the threads here will light up with both pro and cons commenters. But this is Apple, we should all be familiar engineers it’s computers and how it prices them. For better OR Worse, depending on your point of view.