Mount a Lion - whats the point?

[RobertSix]

I jumped up off the back of Snow Leopard to Mounting Lions about a month ago now, and after a month of usage I'm sitting here thinking - what was the point in that?

Now I have app store bubbles popping up, which it appears the only thing I can do is click it, then let app store open to close it.

One admittedly good thing is the auto resume for when the machine crashed, but then again, it didn't crash on SL in the first place so... not sure I see the value in a less reliable machine that simply picks up where it left off from.

And now when I resume the computer from sleep, which for years only required one button press, now takes several clicks. IE if I click a button on the mouse just once, the MP starts to wake up and if I don't click again, it just goes back to sleep! I'm guessing ML has some built in snooze function. Or maybe since I'm on a MP without SSD, they gave me snooze instead of power nap.

Oh and one other feature of Mountain Lion is sometimes I put it to sleep, but the fans keep going. Then I try and resume and nothing happens, so I have to force power off. Its awesome.

Are there really any benefits to using ML instead of Snow as a pro user that I have yet to uncover? I'm thinking of reverting.

 

[Cindori]

Any OS upgrades since Lion have not brought much more than better synchronization with your iOS gadgets imo...

 

[ActionableMango]

Are there really any benefits to using ML instead of Snow as a pro user that I have yet to uncover? I'm thinking of reverting.

I think Snow Leopard is the best version of OS X. It is what I use.

But ML does have significantly wider and better GPU support.

 

[designs216]

I've been using ML since its release and I have to say there is no benefit/incentive to the professional user to upgrade.

 

[GermanyChris]

I live in Leopard, but the 17" is Mountain Lion. I like ML at least on the portable. The benefit I see is the graphics card support, beyond that I see no real benefit.

 

[scottsjack]

I think Snow Leopard is the best version of OS X. It is what I use.

But ML does have significantly wider and better GPU support.

I agree. Except for ML's deeper shadows and full window adjustments I would rather look at SL. Unfortunately there is the issue of Aperture, iTunes, iPhoto and Mail backward compatibility. Combine that with 32/64 bit and FileVault issues and there is just no going back.

For better or worse it's a Mountain Lion/Windows 8 world now (to some extent).

 

[24Frames]

Well ML has OpenGL 3.2 support (as did Lion), rather than the OpenGL 2.1 support in SL, so that is a pretty good reason for upgrading from SL for professional users that have applications that use OpenGL 3.2.

Also my CINEBENCH scores are about 10 % higher in 10.8.2 / 10.7.4 than they were in SL (although some of the gain may come from upgrading from 8 GB to 16 GB RAM).

 

[Schismz]

Well ML has OpenGL 3.2 support (as did Lion), rather than the OpenGL 2.1 support in SL, so that is a pretty good reason for upgrading from SL for professional users that have applications that use OpenGL 3.2.

Also my CINEBENCH scores are about 10 % higher in 10.8.2 / 10.7.4 than they were in SL (although some of the gain may come from upgrading from 8 GB to 16 GB RAM).

This.

+ of course the iOS Nirvana comment. And Mail, iTunes, every other new App that's being released and wants some framework that only arrived in ML...

Also ... at the rate they are going now, releasing a new OS/X every year, Snow Leopard won't be getting anymore security updates in the not-too-distant future.

If your system is not connected to the internet and used for work purposes and you're happy with the software running on it right now... Then long live SL. Otherwise, it's moving further and further back in the rear-view mirror.

FWIW: I'm running 10.8.2 on MacPro5,1 48GB RAM, 5870, etc,etc,etc, with no problems whatsoever and experiencing improved speed and stability over Lion.

 

[RobertSix]

FWIW: I'm running 10.8.2 on MacPro5,1 48GB RAM, 5870, etc,etc,etc, with no problems whatsoever and experiencing improved speed and stability over Lion.

Interesting. I'm going to try a fresh install and see if the problems persist.

Well ML has OpenGL 3.2 support (as did Lion), rather than the OpenGL 2.1 support in SL, so that is a pretty good reason for upgrading from SL for professional users that have applications that use OpenGL 3.2.

What apps use this openGL?

I've been using ML since its release and I have to say there is no benefit/incentive to the professional user to upgrade.

That is what I've been thinking although with these other comments I am reconsidering.

I think Snow Leopard is the best version of OS X. It is what I use.

But ML does have significantly wider and better GPU support.

I wish I could opt out of some of these improvements of ML. I appreciate the OpenGL and GPU support - but I'm not interested in notification center, or social networking implementations - this seems like bloatware to me, and I like a refined system that I can tailor around doing what I want.

 

[Phrygian]

Some games, maybe rendering software.

 

[ClassObject]

This thread is trolling

 

[RobertSix]

This thread is trolling

Trying to work out how to make ML more pro friendly is trolling? Define: trolling.

 

[noteple]

Trying to work out how to make ML more pro friendly is trolling? Define: trolling.

Mount - a - Lion ? Please

 

[RobertSix]

Mount - a - Lion ? Please

Yes, a descriptive title to describe my experience so far. I imagine mounting a lion would be leave me scarred and full of regret. Its apt.

Please yourself.

 

[FluJunkie]

This thread is trolling

I'm with this guy. I take it about as seriously as some rant with things like "M$" and "Crapple" in it.

 

[paronga]

err so turn off notifications in system prefs if you don't want the pp store things! or just turn it off completely.

if you used a trackpad, you can just swipe them away!
personally, i've upgraded and recently used SL on my old laptop.
felt pretty backwards. But i live the icloud dream and use all of them things.

i also use some semi-pro apps:
pixlemator/logic/garageband/automator/aperture
and i can't see why not to update. I personally am in love with the versioning feature for lion ect and can't imagine stressing about my documents without it

 

[RobertSix]

I'm with this guy. I take it about as seriously as some rant with things like "M$" and "Crapple" in it.

Thanks for chiming in, but you are mistaken. My post is valid - my system has been unstable since ML - and whatever the case whether it be bad luck, or bad design on Apples part - their improvements are interrupting my workflow. You can consider that trolling, but I consider your comment to be pointless disturbance at an attempt to solve some problems. So if there was trolling here its by you and your troll police comrades.

err so turn off notifications in system prefs if you don't want the pp store things! or just turn it off completely.

if you used a trackpad, you can just swipe them away!
personally, i've upgraded and recently used SL on my old laptop.
felt pretty backwards. But i live the icloud dream and use all of them things.

i also use some semi-pro apps:
pixlemator/logic/garageband/automator/aperture
and i can't see why not to update. I personally am in love with the versioning feature for lion ect and can't imagine stressing about my documents without it

I use a mouse. I've considered a track pad but don't see the benefit as yet.

Is there a simple way to turn off notifications you are aware of, or does turning them off require me opening up the notification centre on a daily basis and turning it off? thats how it seems. 'notifications will resume tomorrow'.

I don't need a growl notification telling me every day there's a new version of this and that. You can be on the side of it all you like but this implementation of growl is sloppy.

 

[Boomhowler]

Stability (which I've actually never had a problem with, not when using Lion either), better GPU support, autosave/rename files in top "grey area", built-in full disk encryption together with encrypted time-machine backups, good email client are some of the features which fits my workflow much better than snow leopard does. Better screen sharing is also nice. This iteration of Expose is also the best one in my opinion.

iCloud tabs in Safari is also very neat, together with the Messages-app (but that is not really OS-specific).

 

[Schismz]

Interesting. I'm going to try a fresh install and see if the problems persist.

Just to share my own experiences, on both my personal box (12-core 2010), and systems at our shop (multiple MPs), we always follow the same methodology: when a new OS release arrives, which is not another .point. update (SL -> Lion -> ML), we never just download it and upgrade the system.

I always make sure there is a current Time Machine backup and clone of the system disk, then wipe everything and do a clean install, and then restore the settings & user accounts/data, back into the fresh install, via migration assistant.

In the olden days, we used to do this by hand, and setting up a script that would just use ditto or rsync, to copy back the files we wanted; but as of SL at least Migration Assistant has become a very solid program that seems to work without any problems.

Clean install of new OS + Migration Assistant to pull all your data back in, has so far resulted in = no stupid problems with new installs.

Every single time I've gotten lazy and just upgraded over the previous system, even if nothing major is broken, I almost inevitably begin experiencing random crashes and stability issues, because this framework or that lib is slightly wrong/outdated in some way, or the upgrade missed 2 files (out of 80,000), or... any number of other really minor, stupid issues, that nobody in QC at Apple is going to catch, because there are just too many variables.

When changing entire OS versions, in the long run you will always save yourself a lot of time and annoying problems, by just setting aside an afternoon to backup your system, wipe everything, do a clean install, and then use migration assistant to pull everything back into the clean install.

And even then, every few years, you probably want a "real" clean install, where you rebuild everything by hand, because inevitably you are going to wind up with all sorts of old cruft and preference files wedged into your system all over the place.

Taking a little bit longer to set up your fresh install, always trumps the faster and simpler, just click the OK button to upgrade process and will save you many headaches in the future.

This is just my own personal experience and in theory it's pointless and clicking the OK button will do it, which is after all why it's there, and yes it should work fine, and usually/often does work fine, but when it doesn't ... you're the one dealing with all kinds of dumb but frustrating minor problems, which shouldn't exist.

Just to reiterate: my own personal box + ML = no weird problems with anything actually (and they finally fixed RAID/Disk Utility which remained broken for all of Lion). Same results with MPs at work, which are all 2008+ boxes: no weird problems.

This doesn't mean that things aren't broken in a .0 release, because they always are, it just means you are significantly decreasing the number of things that can go wrong and stacking the deck in your favor.

It's a Mac Pro, you're working with it, perhaps your livelihood depends on it. It's worthwhile to have a stable box. I don't do any of this with my iCrap or random laptops, because I lack the time and interest (ok, whatever, ya know what, I will just hit the [OK] to upgrade system).

BTW, you can just turn off notifications if you find them annoying. If you wanna continue doing software update without app store, just open a shell and: sudo softwareupdate -l

 

[Virinprew]

Look closer. You got dictation, leopard-style expose', rename at titlebar, three-finger tap to dictionary. I am not pro but sometimes pro are too busy to notice little things. By the way, this should be in Mac OS X forum.

 

[Neodym]

I use a mouse. I've considered a track pad but don't see the benefit as yet.

Depends on your workflow and support inside the programs used. I find it's less precise (or at least: more laborious) to e.g. position the mouse cursor, draw a geometric figure or work in UI areas with small buttons or scales, but on the other hand it's way easier on tasks that require less precise handling (like scroll, zoom, wipe).

A general example: When surfing the web via Safari, a Trackpad makes it very easy and convenient to flick through the pages, zoom in and out, scroll smoothly and without aiming for that scroll bars or go back in history by simply swiping through the pages.

Doing the same in e.g. FireFox (with gestures extension) feels more awkward and jumpy in comparison, as support for the trackpad is rather basic.

In general i would not want to miss the trackpad anymore and recommend to try it out. Though i can not imagine it completely replacing a mouse, but instead rather complementing it.

 

[RobertSix]

Look closer. You got dictation, leopard-style expose', rename at titlebar, three-finger tap to dictionary. I am not pro but sometimes pro are too busy to notice little things. By the way, this should be in Mac OS X forum.

You are right. I have been too busy to take note of these things.

And yes, this seems more OSX forum related, but I am having these problems on my Mac Pro with ML, while my MBP is totally fine. It has been my MP having issues waking from sleep since ML as well as other crashes, so it has been a MP+ML issue here.

Just to share my own experiences, on both my personal box (12-core 2010), and systems at our shop (multiple MPs), we always follow the same methodology: when a new OS release arrives, which is not another .point. update (SL -> Lion -> ML), we never just download it and upgrade the system.

I always make sure there is a current Time Machine backup and clone of the system disk, then wipe everything and do a clean install, and then restore the settings & user accounts/data, back into the fresh install, via migration assistant.

In the olden days, we used to do this by hand, and setting up a script that would just use ditto or rsync, to copy back the files we wanted; but as of SL at least Migration Assistant has become a very solid program that seems to work without any problems.

Clean install of new OS + Migration Assistant to pull all your data back in, has so far resulted in = no stupid problems with new installs.

Every single time I've gotten lazy and just upgraded over the previous system, even if nothing major is broken, I almost inevitably begin experiencing random crashes and stability issues, because this framework or that lib is slightly wrong/outdated in some way, or the upgrade missed 2 files (out of 80,000), or... any number of other really minor, stupid issues, that nobody in QC at Apple is going to catch, because there are just too many variables.

When changing entire OS versions, in the long run you will always save yourself a lot of time and annoying problems, by just setting aside an afternoon to backup your system, wipe everything, do a clean install, and then use migration assistant to pull everything back into the clean install.

And even then, every few years, you probably want a "real" clean install, where you rebuild everything by hand, because inevitably you are going to wind up with all sorts of old cruft and preference files wedged into your system all over the place.

Taking a little bit longer to set up your fresh install, always trumps the faster and simpler, just click the OK button to upgrade process and will save you many headaches in the future.

This is just my own personal experience and in theory it's pointless and clicking the OK button will do it, which is after all why it's there, and yes it should work fine, and usually/often does work fine, but when it doesn't ... you're the one dealing with all kinds of dumb but frustrating minor problems, which shouldn't exist.

Just to reiterate: my own personal box + ML = no weird problems with anything actually (and they finally fixed RAID/Disk Utility which remained broken for all of Lion). Same results with MPs at work, which are all 2008+ boxes: no weird problems.

This doesn't mean that things aren't broken in a .0 release, because they always are, it just means you are significantly decreasing the number of things that can go wrong and stacking the deck in your favor.

It's a Mac Pro, you're working with it, perhaps your livelihood depends on it. It's worthwhile to have a stable box. I don't do any of this with my iCrap or random laptops, because I lack the time and interest (ok, whatever, ya know what, I will just hit the [OK] to upgrade system).

BTW, you can just turn off notifications if you find them annoying. If you wanna continue doing software update without app store, just open a shell and: sudo softwareupdate -l

This is some great advice and I am now a few days in on a fresh install without problems.

You mentioned this Migration Assistant and I've stayed clear. I should look into it more and understand what exactly is copied over. I seemed to have given MA the automatic thumbs down because it seems to simple; that it would transfer / copy over my user account with all the libraries and preferences. Of course some of that would be great, but I'm under the belief that by doing that I'd potentially be transferring over the buggy stuff I'm trying to move away from in the first place.

Thanks for the advice!

Stability (which I've actually never had a problem with, not when using Lion either), better GPU support, autosave/rename files in top "grey area", built-in full disk encryption together with encrypted time-machine backups, good email client are some of the features which fits my workflow much better than snow leopard does. Better screen sharing is also nice. This iteration of Expose is also the best one in my opinion.

iCloud tabs in Safari is also very neat, together with the Messages-app (but that is not really OS-specific).

I love the sharing of tabs idea - but can't seem to catch onto Safari. Could be the lack of snappy developer tools that Chrome has which has got me snagged making the shift to Safari.

I'm starting to believe in ML.

In general i would not want to miss the trackpad anymore and recommend to try it out. Though i can not imagine it completely replacing a mouse, but instead rather complementing it.

You make a good argument for the trackpad! Perhaps I should try it.

 

[Boomhowler]

I love the sharing of tabs idea - but can't seem to catch onto Safari. Could be the lack of snappy developer tools that Chrome has which has got me snagged making the shift to Safari.

Have you tried the developer tools for Safari 6? Most of the Chrome tools are based on webkit tools anyways and they have been refined somewhat in the latest Safari.

But maybe you are using some stuff which I haven't seen yet

howto: http://developer.apple.com/library/...afariDeveloperTools/SafariDeveloperTools.html

 

[RobertSix]

Have you tried the developer tools for Safari 6? Most of the Chrome tools are based on webkit tools anyways and they have been refined somewhat in the latest Safari.

But maybe you are using some stuff which I haven't seen yet

howto: http://developer.apple.com/library/...afariDeveloperTools/SafariDeveloperTools.html

what do you know... Safari tools even has some of the same shortcut keys

I'm digging this reading list thing. I've been doing this manually with bookmarks.

So Safari + iCloud + Desktop Trackpad and I'll become an internet master eh?

 

[Boomhowler]

I personally prefer Instapaper before reading list, but it's a bit different