Multi AP Airport network

[sajr]

Guys, I'm hoping you can help me out here with some advice on how bets to setup my network. Until recently I had my Virgin Cable router setup in Modem only mode with an ethernet cable into latest version Airport extreme on the ground floor of my house from there I had an armoured ethernet cable running under the floor out through my garden to my garage/Man cave where it connected to an old Time Capsule and then cabled into an Airport express and a Belkin Thunderbolt dock. I also had another ethernet camel running undertone floor inside my house to my living room where it connected into an old Airport extreme and then via ethernet into my PS4 and a latest version Apple TV. Upstairs I had another Airport express with another Apple TV connected. Unfortunately the main Airport Extreme died form over heating. At which point I bought anew one and put it in it's place but the performance was unstable. So for the last week I have been using the Virgin Cable modem as a wireless router with one airport express, the new extreme and my iMac cabled directly into it. everything else is connected wirelessly and I'm not using the old Time Capsule or the Old Airport Extreme. Bandwidth is 100mb + and the wired devices are fine but the Apple TV really struggles when streaming form the iMac. I would like to go back to utilising all Airport devices and return the Virgin Cable router to modem only mode. How would you guys recommend I set it up?

 

[hobowankenobi]

If you don't come up with a workable plan...I would suggest different hardware. I can't recommend anything AE as I have not worked on them in years. Perhaps someone here can recommend a fix.

Since you have ethernet (ethernet camel....hahaha I love that autocorrect!) running to several places, I would consider something more robust. If you just want a short-range WiFi AP, plus an ethernet port, you could use an in-wall device like this that does both.

If you want a long range full strength AP, you could go full enterprise-grade AP with an ethernet port like this. Likely way overkill though.

If you want to get most things over to dependable WiFi then you might want to do 2 or 3 of these to cover the entire house.

All 3 options leverage your existing ethernet to run both data and power out to a more remote location for the AP, and the other end of these APs must go back to your router to plug into the network. Based on your gear, you would use your best/newest AE as the router again and utilize the wired ports (and the firewall/security features) but turn over the WiFi to the UBNT APs....for one, seamless network. The Virgin box would be back to modem duty.

There are other brands to consider too. UBNT is about the best bang for the buck that I am aware of. I set up quite a few for businesses, and my wife works from home with 2 UBNT APs covering everything, front to back and a good chunk of the backyard. Very solid, literally never have to reboot the APs. Once dialed in, they just work. Can stream to 2 ATVs, a couple gaming rigs while others watch Youtube or Netflix on mobile, with no WiFi issues.

 

[techwarrior]

A little difficult to understand your setup, but it sounds like you have Ethernet running to every location where you have Airports (not sure about the upstairs Express).

To start with, there are two general principles to consider in network design. Ethernet is going to tend to be faster, and more reliable than WiFi, and too many WiFi access points can be detrimental to reliability and speed.

In places where you have AP devices, if it is possible to get by with a network switch to connect Ethernet devices to, that may be a better solution than an AP device. Why? Because the additional WiFi access point may be overlapping with other WiFi access points.

Also, if any AP devices connect wirelessly to the network as opposed to wired, try to eliminate that bottleneck. Wirelessly extending, especially for Expresses will result in poor WiFi performance in most cases because the uplink shares the radio with client connections, roughly cutting throughput in half. If running cable is difficult, a MOCA or Powerline Ethernet solution may be adequate. MOCA uses in house Coax (cable TV wires), but if the CATV cables are in use for TV service, that may not be viable. Powerline uses the power wires in your home to transmit data. In both cases, dont skimp, newer tech is much faster than the older generation stuff.

If you have access points too close to each other, they compete for access due to frequency\channel overlap. The tricky part is, 5Ghz and 2.4Ghz have different ranges (2.4 up to 2x distance than 5Ghz).

So, you might start with a Gigabit Ethernet switch, and go to each location where you have an access point (aside from the router location) and replace the Airport with the switch. If anything uses WiFi in that area, determine if the signal is adequate, if so, plan on using a switch there and move to the next location and repeat.

I suspect the only place you need an access point is the mancave. In all other locations, you may have adequate signal strength from the main router.

Keep in mind, Airport Extreme can have WiFi disabled and used as a switch. So, if the Extreme is connected to the main network via WAN ethernet port at 1Gbps, you have 3 other 1Gbps LAN ports for wired devices at that location. It is more expensive than a switch, but then you already own it.

As for Expresses, they can be setup in WiFi Client mode to bridge WiFi to Ethernet. So, if the upstairs gets adequate WiFi from the router, but Ethernet is not running to that location, you can put the Express in WiFi client mode to connect to the router, then plug an ethernet device into the LAN port. By using client mode, 100% of the radio capacity is used for transmissions with the router, and not splitting duty. If more ports are needed, connect a network switch to the Express LAN port.

 

[sajr]

A little difficult to understand your setup, but it sounds like you have Ethernet running to every location where you have Airports (not sure about the upstairs Express).

To start with, there are two general principles to consider in network design. Ethernet is going to tend to be faster, and more reliable than WiFi, and too many WiFi access points can be detrimental to reliability and speed.

In places where you have AP devices, if it is possible to get by with a network switch to connect Ethernet devices to, that may be a better solution than an AP device. Why? Because the additional WiFi access point may be overlapping with other WiFi access points.

Also, if any AP devices connect wirelessly to the network as opposed to wired, try to eliminate that bottleneck. Wirelessly extending, especially for Expresses will result in poor WiFi performance in most cases because the uplink shares the radio with client connections, roughly cutting throughput in half. If running cable is difficult, a MOCA or Powerline Ethernet solution may be adequate. MOCA uses in house Coax (cable TV wires), but if the CATV cables are in use for TV service, that may not be viable. Powerline uses the power wires in your home to transmit data. In both cases, dont skimp, newer tech is much faster than the older generation stuff.

If you have access points too close to each other, they compete for access due to frequency\channel overlap. The tricky part is, 5Ghz and 2.4Ghz have different ranges (2.4 up to 2x distance than 5Ghz).

So, you might start with a Gigabit Ethernet switch, and go to each location where you have an access point (aside from the router location) and replace the Airport with the switch. If anything uses WiFi in that area, determine if the signal is adequate, if so, plan on using a switch there and move to the next location and repeat.

I suspect the only place you need an access point is the mancave. In all other locations, you may have adequate signal strength from the main router.

Keep in mind, Airport Extreme can have WiFi disabled and used as a switch. So, if the Extreme is connected to the main network via WAN ethernet port at 1Gbps, you have 3 other 1Gbps LAN ports for wired devices at that location. It is more expensive than a switch, but then you already own it.

As for Expresses, they can be setup in WiFi Client mode to bridge WiFi to Ethernet. So, if the upstairs gets adequate WiFi from the router, but Ethernet is not running to that location, you can put the Express in WiFi client mode to connect to the router, then plug an ethernet device into the LAN port. By using client mode, 100% of the radio capacity is used for transmissions with the router, and not splitting duty. If more ports are needed, connect a network switch to the Express LAN port.

Thanks TechWarrior. All good information and I appreciate your time and knowledge. I think the next step for me is extend my ethernet upstairs and turning the old Extreme into an ethernet switch rather than an access point.
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If you don't come up with a workable plan...I would suggest different hardware. I can't recommend anything AE as I have not worked on them in years. Perhaps someone here can recommend a fix.

Since you have ethernet (ethernet camel....hahaha I love that autocorrect!) running to several places, I would consider something more robust. If you just want a short-range WiFi AP, plus an ethernet port, you could use an in-wall device like this that does both.

If you want a long range full strength AP, you could go full enterprise-grade AP with an ethernet port like this. Likely way overkill though.

If you want to get most things over to dependable WiFi then you might want to do 2 or 3 of these to cover the entire house.

All 3 options leverage your existing ethernet to run both data and power out to a more remote location for the AP, and the other end of these APs must go back to your router to plug into the network. Based on your gear, you would use your best/newest AE as the router again and utilize the wired ports (and the firewall/security features) but turn over the WiFi to the UBNT APs....for one, seamless network. The Virgin box would be back to modem duty.

There are other brands to consider too. UBNT is about the best bang for the buck that I am aware of. I set up quite a few for businesses, and my wife works from home with 2 UBNT APs covering everything, front to back and a good chunk of the backyard. Very solid, literally never have to reboot the APs. Once dialed in, they just work. Can stream to 2 ATVs, a couple gaming rigs while others watch Youtube or Netflix on mobile, with no WiFi issues.

Much appreciated Hobowankenobi. I will have a few tries to get and get the best coverage and let you all know what I finally settle on.