My computer died

[maflynn]

So to my surprise as I go this morning to play some Fallout 76 on my desktop, the monitor doesn't wake up, and the fans are audibly running (they're usually silent). I'm like hmmm, that's odd, the more I sit there with my coffee the more I realize it crashed. I recall seeing the little notification in the lower left stating the computer needs to reboot to apply some changes. If I'm not busy, I'll do it while I'm there during the day, this time I didn't.

My frustration turned to annoyance when it rebooted and I was notified that the bios was reset - odd. I do a quick and dirty setup it reboots into the recovery console and I select normal boot. Reboot #2, comes the little windows spinny thing appears - and I notice it spinning longer then it usually does, then a black screen with fans going

I force it down, again, but I get re-notified that the bios was reset - CRAP

So it seems something about last night's update trigged some issue, while its possible that that SSD died/failed, I'm not entirely sold (yet). Its too coincidental to have an update and then the system failed.

I'll be downing a new image on a USB later today - not sure I have the intestinal fortitude to deal with it this morning - especially since I have karate starting up shortly.

 

[maflynn]

Whelp, its back with the living

So here's what I think happened, in my early troubleshooting steps, I noticed my T3 external drive hooked up to the computer - truth be told, I had completely forgot it was there. For giggles, I unplugged my windows USB (which was not helping me one iota) and the T3. Rebooted and low and behold the system is back.

I'm not sure what happened but it seemed that the desktop was trying to boot off the T3. Now here's the odd thing, that T3 has been on this computer, probably since I set it up and I've gone through numerous reboots and updates. nonetheless, I'm happy to see things back with the living.

I need to do a few things, like validating the backup I have on my Drobo DAS, making sure I have a recovery image, and be sure that drobo is accessible on my laptop just to have the ability to pull my data off if the need arises. Finally re-tweak the bios back to my personal settings, such as the fan profile, XMP, etc.

My T3 is the backup for my Lightroom image library, so I'll sync that up so my images that I store are in two locations (the drobo and t3).

I'm quasi relieved that its back but before I try rebooting, I'm going to make sure my data is backed up but first i'm off to Karate so I can get beat up

 

[LeeW]

Should have bought an iMac 🤣

 

[maflynn]

Should have bought an iMac 🤣

You know its funny, but I was 100% certain, that I'd a post along those lines

 

[LeeW]

The one thing with the PC when something like this happens is that I feel more sure/confident the issue can be resolved either with a bit of research or a prime delivery part to get back up and running. Not return the whole thing to Apple.

 

[I7guy]

That's really a bad feeling when that happens.

Glad your computer is up and running again. I think modern day motherboards and bioses can be a bit glitchy.

My new build, which was running fine for the last few months, went into a power cycle loop two months ago, during the day. A power cycle loop is one where the bios powers down the system, then one second later powers up the system, then powers down the system then powers up the system. Even after removing the power did the same thing. To make a long store short, the desktop was down the remainder of the week, until I could research on the weekend.

Ultimately I removed all usb connections, removed the video card and used q-flash to reinstall the bios. After that the system came back to life, with everything intact after I put everything back in place.

Bizzarre.

 

[maflynn]

I think modern day motherboards and bioses can be a bit glitchy.

I'm of the opinion that the T3 external drive was causing the issue, and for what ever reason the update had confused the system. I'm creating a recovery USB, the T3 had a recovery directory, but it was old and the recovery process threw an error on that. So I'll be using a thumb drive.

I started thinking it was the T3, since I was getting partition errors when trying to reinstall windows - yes, I was at that point but then it said the partition wasn't GPT (even though it was evident I selected my 1TB drive. As I mentioned, I unplugged all drives and rebooted for giggles, and it worked ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I confirmed my backups on the Drobo are good, and I also synced up my images on my internal drive to the T3 which is why I had kept it connected. Once I'm done, I'll be sure to not keep it connected

 

[mi7chy]

Do you have a Gigabyte x570 motherboard?

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/n6synx

 

[lcseds]

When setting up a new box recently with an Asus MB, I could see my SSD in BIOS but could not access it to copy a new image or boot from it. Drove me nuts. Ended up unplugging internal DVD and everything ran fine. Plugged DVD back in and it kept running fine.

At least with Windows I can ususally fix this kind of stuff, but wish it wouldn't happen in the first place. And I wonder how often non tech people get this kind of wierdness. Not motherboard/system innards type of thing as they wouldn't be doing that kind of work, but little issues like disappearing devices, no internet, etc.

So point for Windows being able to fix, point for Mac as this kind of stuff rarely happens.

 

[MBAir2010]

so happy to hear your computer is working again, maflynn not that i understood any of that that jargon.
although i was surprised to see you post a subject about something you have not working-
which means computer failures will happen to anyone.
my mom's dell inspiron PC had a hardware issue but the machines was turned off during an update,
which was much easier to fix.

 

[maflynn]

Do you have a Gigabyte x570 motherboard?

Interesting. I’ll have to look into that. Thanks for the info

 

[I7guy]

I'm of the opinion that the T3 external drive was causing the issue, and for what ever reason the update had confused the system. I'm creating a recovery USB, the T3 had a recovery directory, but it was old and the recovery process threw an error on that. So I'll be using a thumb drive.

I started thinking it was the T3, since I was getting partition errors when trying to reinstall windows - yes, I was at that point but then it said the partition wasn't GPT (even though it was evident I selected my 1TB drive. As I mentioned, I unplugged all drives and rebooted for giggles, and it worked ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I confirmed my backups on the Drobo are good, and I also synced up my images on my internal drive to the T3 which is why I had kept it connected. Once I'm done, I'll be sure to not keep it connected

From my experience over the years windows boot issues are mostly fixable, except when the partition table got damaged.

The bios not posting just ratchets the problem determination to another level.

 

[maflynn]

So it seems that the external drive was not the culprit, which kind of makes sense since I've had that plugged in since the day I built it. The links @mi7chy post confirm that others were having the same issue, down to the point where the bios was getting reset.

What worked in my favor, was that I got the computer working, some how (I have no idea) and it didn't re-do itself simply because MS pulled the driver.

 

[Kung gu]

Good thing everything in your PC is user replaceable and easy to fix if something did unlike the iMac. If an iMac has a problem, you have to put the huge thing in the boot and drive to an Apple Store. Pay the thief(Apple) a couple $$$ and wait a couple days/weeks and and you are up and running again.

Now on your PC if your motherboard is broken, order a new one off amazon. same with SSD and RAM and power supply. With PCs you are not beholden to Apple's "repair" network.

If a iMac 2020 user was looking for a power supply to replace, I doubt the person would find it easily and a logic board replacement lol. The M1 iMac is basically e-waste nothing is upgradeable it's a use and throw device, just like iPads. Apple don't make traditional PC's anymore, just iPads on stands with capable OS than iPadOS.

 

[Abazigal]

Good thing everything in your PC is user replaceable and easy to fix if something did unlike the iMac. If an iMac has a problem, you have to put the huge thing in the boot and drive to an Apple Store. Pay the thief(Apple) a couple $$$ and wait a couple days/weeks and and you are up and running again.

Now on your PC if your motherboard is broken, order a new one off amazon. same with SSD and RAM and power supply. With PCs you are not beholden to Apple's "repair" network.

If a iMac 2020 user was looking for a power supply to replace, I doubt the person would find it easily and a logic board replacement lol. The M1 iMac is basically e-waste nothing is upgradeable it's a use and throw device, just like iPads. Apple don't make traditional PC's anymore, just iPads on stands with capable OS than iPadOS.

I am one such person.

I sent my iMac in for servicing last Friday. Booked a grab (Asia’s version of Uber) and lugged the whole 5k screen down to the Apple Store. They initially told me it would take 1-2 hours to reinstall the OS, then said it would have to be extended because the iMac kept rebooting.

Yesterday, they called and quoted me $800 (about US$535) for a logic board replacement. But I have till Monday morning to make a decision since they don’t have ready parts anyways. Roughly a quarter of what I paid for it in 2017.

Whatever my decision is, I would buy an iMac all over again. One breakdown and a few days of inconvenience don’t cancel out 4 years of working great for me. Better than a windows PC would have for me at any rate.

It’s a package deal.

 

[maflynn]

PC is user replaceable and easy to fix if something did unlike the iMac

For the most part yeah, thanks to Apple's desire to lock down and seal their computers.

they called and quoted me $800 (about US$535)

Ouch - $ 535 USD??? That seems like they're gouging you, but then given the iMacs closed design, and apple's anti-consumer stance on right to repair its no surprise.

Better than a windows PC would have for me at any rate.

Well that is your opinion and aside from your logic board failing - which suck to be sure. That doesn't mean PCs failed before 4 years. I have computers at work running longer then 5+ problem free. I have a first gen Surface Book that still works (6 years old).

My point is we don't need to have Apple succeed by having PCs fail. All to often I see this (from both sides) where an Apple fan promotes how great their Mac and then postulates that this can't be true for PCs. PCs can be just as reliable as Macs, and many if not most (but not all) are infinitely easier to repair and upgrade.

So for me, lower price, easier to upgrade and repair, and they're just as reliable if not more (take a look at the butterfly keyboard debacle) means for my needs, the PC makes more sense. Notice I said my needs, because one size doesn't fit all, and I totally get people such as yourself prefer macs - That just doesn't PCs are awful

 

[Abazigal]

Ouch - $ 535 USD??? That seems like they're gouging you, but then given the iMacs closed design, and apple's anti-consumer stance on right to repair its no surprise.

I kinda expected that price. I am aware of how much Apple charges for out-of-warranty repairs, and I finally find myself on the receiving end of said policies.

Which is why I am kinda in a dilemma currently. Right now, the most cost-effective route is to simply pay for the repair, and hope I get another 2-3 years out of it. I am also contemplating getting an M1 Mac (either a Mac mini + external display or iMac), but both don't represent an obvious upgrade compared to the 5k display of my iMac, and cost more (plus the M1 iMac won't be available for another month, and I still face the same issues, namely that the display is tied to the lifespan of the Mac).

The M1 Mac mini represents the most obvious choice by far (since it has the same chip as the iMac, and I have been pretty impressed by the performance of my base level MBA), but getting a decent monitor still costs a hefty chunk of cash. I would also have to purchase additional accessories like a webcam to go with my M1 Mac mini.

The price quoted by Apple is really neither here nor there. Any more (eg: Sing $1000) and I would have rejected them outright (I can get an entry level Mac mini for that price). Any less and I would have told them to go ahead there and then. Hence my current indecision.

I could also pay to fix it and sell it online for a small profit but at this point, it hardly seems worth the effort.

Well that is your opinion and aside from your logic board failing - which suck to be sure. That doesn't mean PCs failed before 4 years. I have computers at work running longer then 5+ problem free. I have a first gen Surface Book that still works (6 years old).

Perhaps PCs have gotten a lot better and more reliable over the years. I got into an iMac in 2011 after both my previous PCs started slowing down and failing after barely 2 years each. My first iMac lasted 6 years (and still went strong) before I upgraded to the 2017 5k model. My work-issued laptop (HP Elitex2) is nothing fantastic to crow about either (battery life is short, and many colleagues got screen failures after zooming with it last year), but that could also be the result of all those admin restrictions and software bogging the system down.

Maybe Apple just doesn't make them like they used to, or maybe it's luck of the draw (to have it fail after my warranty expired).

My point is we don't need to have Apple succeed by having PCs fail. All to often I see this (from both sides) where an Apple fan promotes how great their Mac and then postulates that this can't be true for PCs. PCs can be just as reliable as Macs, and many if not most (but not all) are infinitely easier to repair and upgrade.

So for me, lower price, easier to upgrade and repair, and they're just as reliable if not more (take a look at the butterfly keyboard debacle) means for my needs, the PC makes more sense. Notice I said my needs, because one size doesn't fit all, and I totally get people such as yourself prefer macs - That just doesn't PCs are awful

You are right. I agree a PC has its advantages (expandability being the key one, the other being games). I went with the iMac because of its 5k display, the form factor being more space-efficient, and the integration with the Apple ecosystem (such as airdrop and continuity).

My iMac has been a great boon last year during the COVID-19 period when school briefly closed and I was conducting home-based lessons and the iMac was great for zooming. Perhaps I was too hasty in criticising PCs. My point is more that their benefits don't really matter all that much to me, and it's hard to find a decent windows AIO as well.

 

[maflynn]

Perhaps PCs have gotten a lot better and more reliable over the years.

They've been just as reliable as they always have. Some models, are known to be questionable quality wise, others have been known to be tanks.

Let me also say the same exact argument can be made for Macs. Just consider the myriad of GPU issues affecting the MBPs from 2008, all the way up to 2011 (and beyond?) Also look at the high volume of repair programs apple has undertaken because of defective MBPs. Its great that they did that, and many other companies do not, but the fact remains the track record for MBPs is not that stellar, I mean we just had to deal with the butterfly keyboard for years, or that display cable issue failing. In my book this makes it worse, because Apple doesn't have many models like others so when there are issues its amplified, especially since Apple markets themselves as the premier top of the line computer

What I'm getting at is both platforms have their problems but all too often, people must denigrate the other platform as they try to elevate their personal choice - Yes, human nature is such that we must passionately defend our personal choices. One size doesn't fit all and if you want a mac that's great but that in itself doesn't mean that PCs are of poorer quality (and vice versa).

 

[I7guy]

So it seems that the external drive was not the culprit, which kind of makes sense since I've had that plugged in since the day I built it. The links @mi7chy post confirm that others were having the same issue, down to the point where the bios was getting reset.

What worked in my favor, was that I got the computer working, some how (I have no idea) and it didn't re-do itself simply because MS pulled the driver.

The cmos shouldn't be able to be reset, nor should the bios get corrupted unless initiated by the user via a cmos clear or bios update.

That's a failing of the the system board and bios manufacturer not properly locking things down...unfortunately though it's happened to you and recently happened to me.

 

[Steve Adams]

They've been just as reliable as they always have. Some models, are known to be questionable quality wise, others have been known to be tanks.

Let me also say the same exact argument can be made for Macs. Just consider the myriad of GPU issues affecting the MBPs from 2008, all the way up to 2011 (and beyond?) Also look at the high volume of repair programs apple has undertaken because of defective MBPs. Its great that they did that, and many other companies do not, but the fact remains the track record for MBPs is not that stellar, I mean we just had to deal with the butterfly keyboard for years, or that display cable issue failing. In my book this makes it worse, because Apple doesn't have many models like others so when there are issues its amplified, especially since Apple markets themselves as the premier top of the line computer

What I'm getting at is both platforms have their problems but all too often, people must denigrate the other platform as they try to elevate their personal choice - Yes, human nature is such that we must passionately defend our personal choices. One size doesn't fit all and if you want a mac that's great but that in itself doesn't mean that PCs are of poorer quality (and vice versa).

Agreed. I have no idea where the thought that a windows based computer is any less reliable than a mac computer. that's just apple marketing bullcrap in effect. I have a 500 dollar Dell 2 in 1 here now. It's been dead reliable until yesterday morning when I fired it up and got a white screen. I am typing the repsonse on it now. It's the cable between the screen and body. I am going to see if it's just worked loose. It's running fine again here now. I expect the worst it will be is to replace the cable. 20 dollar part and about an hr of my time. I have used this notebook relentlessly for the past three years on the road, being thrown into our jeeps, planes, boats, you name it. It's been well taken care of, but used as I purchased it for. Photo editing, creating, writing for my business ventures etc. it's been 100 percent reliable until yesterday.

I am going to purcase a new version of the same notebook as I got three years of great use out of this one. for the bargain price of 549 dollars cdn.

 

[kazmac]

Whatever works for the user is fine by me. I've had enough ups and downs with both platforms (Hardware/software and my discomboobulating self) to know that both PCs and Macs work and both fail.

I will probably need a PC to do the things I used to be able to do on Macs, which is fine. I'll need a PC for work anyway, so it helps for me to be cross platform. I'll keep my toes in Macs because I love them when they work and my loyalty to the platform that fostered my creativity is still very strong (No matter how much I've grumbled.)

I am impressed at how the folks in this sub forum troubleshoot and fix their Windows machines. That's awesome. @maflynn glad to hear your PC is up and running again.

 

[Steve Adams]

Whatever works for the user is fine by me. I've had enough ups and downs with both platforms (Hardware/software and my discomboobulating self) to know that both PCs and Macs work and both fail.

I will probably need a PC to do the things I used to be able to do on Macs, which is fine. I'll need a PC for work anyway, so it helps for me to be cross platform. I'll keep my toes in Macs because I love them when they work and my loyalty to the platform that fostered my creativity is still very strong (No matter how much I've grumbled.)

I am impressed at how the folks in this sub forum troubleshoot and fix their Windows machines. That's awesome. @maflynn glad to hear your PC is up and running again.

I am a creative. I have an online marketing company, photography, videography, and website creation as well. I also design clothing, logos etc. for our businesses and clients. I never found windows lacking any more than MacOS for this. I have all programs I need, and most were cheaper than comparable Apple based programs. Plus, I get current fast updates on all software on my windows system. I purchased Aperture for my macs back in the day, and well, got told to stuff it as they cancelled that software, and I could not even download it again since I purchased the digital copy from Apple Canada. So, that leaves a sour taste in my mouth for apple as well as not updating older hardware to new OS versions "just because". Apple is planned obsolescence all the way around.

I am currently starting a new real estate business where I am relying on my computer systems ALOT to get everything done. I would never use an Apple computer/ios platform for this work either. I have sold my ipad and I am getting a new surface pro X and a surface duo for my phone. It just works much better for this application.

 

[maflynn]

I am impressed at how the folks in this sub forum troubleshoot and fix their Windows machines. That's awesome. @maflynn glad to hear your PC is up and running again.

I wasn't feeling very good when the computer was dead, but yeah. With PCs/Windows we have more opportunity to diagnose and resolve the issue.

The cmos shouldn't be able to be reset, nor should the bios get corrupted unless initiated by the user via a cmos clear or bios update.

You're right but it did - not sure why but clearly my experience with Gigabyte x570 motherboard is not alone - there was an update that did it. I've since disabled driver updates as noted by the links above

 

[kazmac]

I am a creative. I have an online marketing company, photography, videography, and website creation as well. I also design clothing, logos etc. for our businesses and clients. I never found windows lacking any more than MacOS for this. I have all programs I need, and most were cheaper than comparable Apple based programs. Plus, I get current fast updates on all software on my windows system. I purchased Aperture for my macs back in the day, and well, got told to stuff it as they cancelled that software, and I could not even download it again since I purchased the digital copy from Apple Canada. So, that leaves a sour taste in my mouth for apple as well as not updating older hardware to new OS versions "just because". Apple is planned obsolescence all the way around.

I am currently starting a new real estate business where I am relying on my computer systems ALOT to get everything done. I would never use an Apple computer/ios platform for this work either. I have sold my ipad and I am getting a new surface pro X and a surface duo for my phone. It just works much better for this application.

If the MS ever fixes the pen jitters, latency, etc. I may consider trying a Surface again, but I’d probably learn to use a Wacom tablet with Windows first.

 

[Steve Adams]

Never had an issue with my surface. I also had an iPad with pencil and neither was better than the other.