My MBP Retina journey (2012 & 2015 gen)

[vorob]

Spoiler: Original Post

Yep, that's the question I want to experiment with a Retina MacBook. My previous experience was only with the pre-retina 2011 model and the 2006 model with a Core 2 Duo processor and X1600 graphics. As for the price, that's the lowest I could find in Russia; there's no way to purchase on eBay right now.

The first one has a basic i7 processor at 2.3GHz, 8GB RAM, 256GB SSD, and a GT650M; the second one has an i7 at 2.5GHz, 16GB RAM, 512GB SSD, and a GT750M.

Can these laptops be upgraded to the latest macOS with custom patches?

Is 8GB DDR3 still relevant in 2024?

Is 1GB of VRAM a problem?

Most likely, I'll be doing some easy tasks like reading info, watching YouTube, editing photos from a 2013 camera, and playing retro games from the laptop's era.

P.S. The 2015 Retina model with R9 graphics is too expensive. The Touch Bar models have issues with the screen cable and keyboard, and they are even higher in price, closer to the M1 MacBook Air, which makes such a purchase nonsensical.

P.S. It's not a money issue; I just want the cheapest Retina MacBook with a discrete GPU to experiment with. So it's not a vital question, just for economy and fun.

Bought MBP 2012, but sold it later, took few month and bought 2015 one: #7

 

[Andrey84]

Can these laptops be upgraded to the latest macOS with custom patches?

Please see https://dortania.github.io/OpenCore-Legacy-Patcher/MODELS.html
The later the release date of the laptop, the more chances it has to be supported by OCLP. However, it seems like both are supported.
If your experiments involve updating to Sonoma or even higher in autumn this year, go with the 2014.

8GB of RAM might still be enough if you're just browsing the internet and watching YouTube on it.

Otherwise, without knowing the nature of your "experiments", it's very hard to advise anything.

 

[vorob]

Found third variant - i7@2.6/8Gb/512SSD/gf650m for 212$, cleaning and setupping it now. It’s in overall good condition, but has a tiny dot on a screen. It’s pretty visible on black screen and almost nonexistent on white. Since it’s not in the center guess I can live with it.

Decided to go for High Sierra at first.

 

[vorob]

I've been continuing my research on this machine. With my Steam library fully loaded, it would be a crime not to try gaming natively on macOS. I installed Steam, Borderlands PS, and Metro Last Light Redux. Unfortunately, it turned out to be a disaster. In Borderlands, I struggled to maintain around 30 fps with constant stuttering, while Metro Last Light proved to be a complete mess, dropping to 15-20 fps in certain locations. And I'm sure I'm not playing in native res.

However, installing Windows 10 via BootCamp made a world of difference. Borderlands now runs smoothly at 40+ fps with consistent frame rates, and Metro sits comfortably at 40-50 fps. I can't fathom why the developers didn't thoroughly test their games.

There's one nagging issue though. Initially, the GPU clock reaches 900mhz but later drops to 800mhz and remains there. Even overclocking the GPU only provides a temporary boost before reverting to the lower clock speed. It feels as if some software override is in play, but I can't pinpoint the exact cause.

Another curiosity is whether the CPU in macOS is officially undervolted. Unfortunately, I haven't found a tool to undervolt the CPU in Windows either. ThrottleStop lacks the necessary options, and Intel XTU is missing crucial buttons.

 

[vorob]

Guys there any special limits for gpu / cpu in mbp 2012? Specs states I’ll have GeForce 650 at 900mhz and Intel I7-3720QM at 2.6ghz. And I see these values on single load or in light tasks. But then I launched the game that loads both CPU and GPU, that’s the result:

GPU stock at 800 MHz
CPU stuck at 1200 MHz or somewhere near.

When I forced CPU to work at higher clock my GPU frequency dropped significantly

 

[vorob]

So, after experimenting with my 2012 MacBook Pro, I decided to sell it. While it was nice and portable, its used condition caused some issues. Fixing those would have cost more than I paid for it, and even more than a newer model. For example, there was a white spot on the screen, the speakers were flat, and the performance wasn't quite what I expected.


I waited a few months, and now I'm ready to buy a newer model. It will be a 2015 MacBook Pro with a faster 2.8 GHz CPU, an AMD GPU, and 16 GB of RAM. I expect it to be a better choice overall.

The condition is okay, but there are some scratches on the corners. The WASD keys are faded and the shift key is slippery, but I expect to fix it up with rubbing alcohol and replacing the faded keycaps from AliExpress.

As always, I'm doing this just for fun and experimentation.

 

[vorob]

Just got my hands on this machine Spent the entire evening with it. Not sure why, but I decided to install macOS Catalina. I also cleaned out the dust inside and replaced the bottom legs. The screen is in great condition with no dead pixels or white spots, and even the oleophobic coating and edge rubber are intact. The battery is original and still working well.

However, it seems the left speaker is damaged and produces some squeaking sounds. I’ll conduct some extensive tests and decide on the next steps. The charger is original, but its cable is in terrible condition. I'll consider replacing the cable since it’s sold separately.

The palm rest edge on the right side is partially worn down. I can’t imagine how this could have happened—it almost looks like someone used a file on it, but that doesn’t seem likely. If the laptop had been dropped, there would be marks on the lid as well, but the damage is isolated to the right palm rest area. I've seen this on other used Macs. Does anyone know what could cause this and how it might have happened?

 

[vorob]

Cable issue is temporarily solved

 

[rovostrov]

"I've seen this on other used Macs. Does anyone know what could cause this and how it might have happened?"

My best guess would be someone who wore a watch with a metal watch band caused the damage. Congrats on the system!

 

[MBAir2010]

vorob:
How are the overall temps running Catalina, is the MBP hot to the touch?

 

[vorob]

vorob:
How are the overall temps running Catalina, is the MBP hot to the touch?

Is this just a general question about macOS Catalina's thermal performance, or is it known to have issues, especially on the 2015 MacBook Pro?

I'm asking because I'm just starting to test this machine and I'm noticing some throttling issues similar to what I experienced on my 2012 model. When I put any kind of load on the CPU and GPU simultaneously, like during games, the laptop drop clock significantly.

I thought it was just a problem with my older model, but it seems like I'm having the same issue with this one.

I've already cleaned the vents and replaced the thermal paste. I only saw improvements when I used a fan to cool the laptop directly.

That’s why I am also suspecting Catalina to be a reason for thermal issues.

To be fair, it is quite warm in Moscow right now (around 30°C) but even my older Lenovo laptop from 2012 maintains its clock speed without any issues.

 

[vorob]

My best guess would be someone who wore a watch with a metal watch band caused the damage. Congrats on the system!

If this is the case that’s a really strange attitude to the device. If I would notice that my watch damage laptop, I would immediately take it off.

 

[Rimmsi]

CPU frequency throttling seems to be related to temperature. The 2.8GHz CPU reaches a boost frequency of up to 4.0GHz and therefore runs very hot. The dedicated graphics card is also a source of heat. Units with intel GPU and 2.2 GHz CPU are better.

 

[MBAir2010]

Is this just a general question about macOS Catalina's thermal performance, or is it known to have issues, especially on the 2015 MacBook Pro?

Catalina ran too hot on my MacBook Pro 2012 2 weeks ago were i could not use that as a laptop.
Seems to me that OSx is not for anything older that 2018, even in Warm SoFlorida or Finland!

 

[vorob]

No, I really can't understand it. I did a lot of testing today and found that I can only get good results when I completely disable all thermal limits. With this setup, I'm able to lock both the GPU and CPU clock speeds and avoid throttling. However, this requires the room to be kept at a cold temperature.

Even with such adjustments, I only get slightly better numbers than on my Lenovo laptop with a GeForce 660M from 2012. That's really pathetic.

I do understand that a Mac is not designed for gaming and can't be directly compared to my Lenovo. However, I still expected better performance since it's three years newer.

 

[MBAir2010]

No, I really can't understand it. I did a lot of testing today and found that I can only get good results when I completely disable all thermal limits. With this setup, I'm able to lock both the GPU and CPU clock speeds and avoid throttling. However, this requires the room to be kept at a cold temperature.

Even with such adjustments, I only get slightly better numbers than on my Lenovo laptop with a GeForce 660M from 2012. That's really pathetic.

I do understand that a Mac is not designed for gaming and can't be directly compared to my Lenovo. However, I still expected better performance since it's three years newer.

all my 4 macs run Macfans which can boost the fan speed and measure temps.

 

[arcite]

Looking at geekbench, you could have bought a refurbished iPad 9, from 2021, for the same price….but you’d get twice the performance. And of course, no fan noise or heat. Isn’t the relentless march of technology marvellous?

 

[vorob]

Looking at geekbench, you could have bought a refurbished iPad 9, from 2021, for the same price….but you’d get twice the performance. And of course, no fan noise or heat. Isn’t the relentless march of technology marvellous?

Well If I needed tablet to view YouTube I would go for it. But I'm looking for IBM PC Compatible machine in MacBook shell

 

[Zest28]

Yep, that's the question I want to experiment with a Retina MacBook. My previous experience was only with the pre-retina 2011 model and the 2006 model with a Core 2 Duo processor and X1600 graphics. As for the price, that's the lowest I could find in Russia; there's no way to purchase on eBay right now.

The first one has a basic i7 processor at 2.3GHz, 8GB RAM, 256GB SSD, and a GT650M; the second one has an i7 at 2.5GHz, 16GB RAM, 512GB SSD, and a GT750M.

Can these laptops be upgraded to the latest macOS with custom patches?

Is 8GB DDR3 still relevant in 2024?

Is 1GB of VRAM a problem?

Most likely, I'll be doing some easy tasks like reading info, watching YouTube, editing photos from a 2013 camera, and playing retro games from the laptop's era.

P.S. The 2015 Retina model with R9 graphics is too expensive. The Touch Bar models have issues with the screen cable and keyboard, and they are even higher in price, closer to the M1 MacBook Air, which makes such a purchase nonsensical.

P.S. It's not a money issue; I just want the cheapest Retina MacBook with a discrete GPU to experiment with. So it's not a vital question, just for economy and fun.

8GB RAM is all you need according to MacRumors.

 

[vorob]

My story continues. I cleaned all accessible areas of the laptop without having to do a deep disassembly. It was quite a bit of work, I must admit, as the laptop seemed to originate from a porn studio, and it looked like it belonged to Pierre Woodman. Plus, the previous owner was a smoker. You should see under the keys; it's really a horrifying sight.



I also ordered the best possible thermal paste with phase change, hoping it will help address the thermal issues with the GPU during gaming. However, I'm not too optimistic since the internet is full of reports about the M370X in the MBP 2015 being hot and prone to throttling.

While I was cleaning the internals, I took a really beautiful photo of the screen. I'd love to share it!



So far, I'm good. In ordinary tasks, the laptop works perfectly, allowing me to do my job without any limits. Despite the horrible keyboard, the screen is like new, and even its coating is undamaged.

And even the keyboard is getting cleaner every day, as I disassemble and clean a new row of keys daily. Soon, it will be like new.

 

[vorob]

Updated to macOS 12, works perfectly fine! Even iMessage scrolling is now smooth.

Though I must admin that google slides lag like hell without obvious reason)

 

[vorob]

So, like I said, I was able to fix dramatic throttling in Windows by locking CPU and GPU clock, disabling BD PROCHOT and coolers on maximum.

The issue, btw:

But now I found similar issue with MBP 16, and the source of the issue lays VRM overheating. People add thermal pads so heat could go to back of the laptop. I wonder if same issue plague my laptop? Cause if solve it by software method im just stressing VRM more.

[Fix] Macbook Pro 16" VRM Throttling |

Hi, Yesterday I ended up on this article on Reddit proposing a fix. I'm thinking of doing it, the reviews are extremely positive. What do you guys think? Here is the link

bootcampdrivers.freeforums.net

 

[vorob]

No, this is honestly unbelievably bad. I tried to play Half-Life 2, and my laptop overheats and loses its performance. I get 30 FPS to 60 FPS switching, making it unbelievably bad. I understand that for basic tasks like typing or rendering, you won’t see performance drops, or it won't happen because only games give sustained load to both the GPU and CPU. However, I think Apple really missed the mark with this generation.

Like I previously said, if I lock the GPU and CPU frequency and disable the temperature control, I can play without any issues. It won't even reach near-terminal temperatures, which are close to 100°C. But the fact that I have to use these tricks to play games is unbelievably bad.

 

[vorob]

The speaker issues have been resolved; they were full of dirt. However, I can't say they sound better than the unibody model. At least they are usable now. Previously, there was significant distortion and some sharp noises that caused my ears to ache.

 

[vorob]

Despite your advice against it, I still went ahead and bought myself a Touch Bar model of the 2018 MacBook Pro. It has an i7 2.2GHz 6-core processor, AMD 555X with 4GB, and 256GB of storage. If it turns out to be fine, then I'll sell my 2015 model.

The device is still on its way to me, but it should be without issues, everything works, and the keyboard is clean. The only problem is the sticker marks, which is a bit of a challenge since they've been exposed to sunlight. I might try placing it under direct sunlight to see if it helps.