Need advice:7D new tech. vs (used)5D full frame

[qveda]

I'm struggling a bit between 2 options that cost approx the same, and both provide the focal range I need. I shoot mostly outdoors, avail light, landscape, horses, artistic, candids. not usually sports, weddings, portraits.

Setting video capabilit aside for the moment (may want it eventually, but yet).

Similar form factors, Option 1 offers new technology that *may* compensate for some advantages of full frame. Either way, it wouldn't be too difficult to upgrade to 5D mkII in a few years

1) Canon 7D new body, with latest technology (focusing , processors, live view features etc) crop sensor body. 15-85 EF-S (equiv 24-135), 70-200 L (equv 100-300)

2) used 5D body, full frame, 24-105L, 70-200 L

I keep waffling. Would appreciate some input.

 

[jdavtz]

I had the same choice to make, pretty much.

But surely you can get a used 5D Mk II (instead of 5D original) for about the same as a new 7D?

The ISO 100-200 shots on the 7D were disappointing. There's noise.

The 7D will be better if you need superfast focussing, sports, birds in flights, etc.

Landscapes, horses, candids, outdoors, available light will be better on a 5D Mk II.

24-105L is a nicer lens than 15-85.

I was also seriously thinking of getting the 70-200L, really for the long end of it, but then realised that a 200mm f/2.8 L prime second hand is cheaper, smaller, lighter, has a faster aperture and better image quality. The Mk I 200/2.8L primes are cheaper than the Mk II versions, and optically identical.

 

[qveda]

I had the same choice to make, pretty much.

But surely you can get a used 5D Mk II (instead of 5D original) for about the same as a new 7D?

The ISO 100-200 shots on the 7D were disappointing. There's noise.

QUOTE]

I'd LOVE to know where to get a used 5D mk II for anywhere near the price of a 7D. any suggestions ? I'm quite surprised you experienced noise on the 7D at such low ISO's , really?

But I'll think about your suggestion of the 200 prime . unless I can get a great deal on a used 5M mk11, I'd only be able to afford one lens.

 

[jdavtz]

I'd LOVE to know where to get a used 5D mk II for anywhere near the price of a 7D. any suggestions ? I'm quite surprised you experienced noise on the 7D at such low ISO's , really?

ebay.co.uk has used 5D Mk IIs that have sold for £1220 to £1450
A new 7D here costs £1170 (cheapest I can find from reputable dealer via http://www.camerapricebuster.co.uk comparison site).

I was also surprised about the 7D low ISO noise, and downloaded a whole bunch of ISO 100 and 200 RAW files from various websites to compare for myself. To be honest you probably wouldn't notice the noise in a normal-sized (A4ish) print, BUT it's a bit disappointing when my old Canon 350D has beautifully smooth blue skies, and the expensive new-tech 7D has skies full of dots.

I can't remember the websites but I'm sure if you search online you'll find info on this.

I'm really (really) happy with my 5D Mk II - two other bonuses for me of the 5D2 over the 7D are that I love shallow DOF shots, and I love 50mm (full frame) - a 50mm f/1.8 is about £80 whereas an equivalent for a crop sensor is the Sigma 30mm which is about £300.

I'd never originally considered the 5D2 as I thought it was a physically much bigger camera, which I didn't want, but actually it's the same size to within a few millimetres.

Anyway - food for thought!!

Jonathan.

 

[gødspeed]

I have a 7D, which I bought new. If there had been a 5D mark II used for anywhere near what I paid, I'd definitely have gotten it instead. Frankly though if I were to do it over again, I'd have bought a Rebel T2i, some damn good lenses (85mm f/1.2L II especially), and waited for the 5D Mark III to come out and upgrade at that point.

That isn't to say that the 7D isn't a good camera, but for my purposes it's suboptimal.

 

[OreoCookie]

I'm really (really) happy with my 5D Mk II - two other bonuses for me of the 5D2 over the 7D are that I love shallow DOF shots, and I love 50mm (full frame) - a 50mm f/1.8 is about £80 whereas an equivalent for a crop sensor is the Sigma 30mm which is about £300.

You have no problem forking over several hundred euros extra for the body, but skimp out on the lens?
I very much would like to have a ff camera for its shallower dof at equivalent focal lengths, but being able to buy one cheaper lens isn't

 

[toxic]

whether the 7D's newer, 18MP APS-C sensor gives as good or better quality images as the 5D's 5-year-old 35mm sensor is up to you.

aside from that, the 5D does not have microadjustment, cross-type outer points, customizable AF, zone or spot AF, VF overlays, 100% VF coverage, Live View, antiglare LCD, popup flash, wireless flash triggering, 8 fps, hardware ISO 3200 or 6400, custom function button, or smart batteries, among other things. its VF blackout and shutter lag are noticeably longer, which can matter with any sort of action, much more than fps.

if most of those things mean little to you, then the 5D will suit you great.

 

[VirtualRain]

1) Canon 7D new body, with latest technology (focusing , processors, live view features etc) crop sensor body. 15-85 EF-S (equiv 24-135), 70-200 L (equv 100-300)

I think the 7D with a 17-55 f2.8 IS is a killer combination... this is a tough lens to match on the full frame side. As I mentioned in another thread recently, there is no EF lens that covers that common focal range that has both image stabilization and a fast constant f2.8 - you have to choose one or the other. The 7D also makes it cheaper to achieve high-res telephoto shots with the 1.6 crop factor. You need to buy really expensive glass on a full frame to get the same reach (field of view).

Also, to add to what Toxic says, the metering and AF system in the 7D is pretty tough to beat.

 

[blockburner28]

You can get a 5d mark II for 600-800 dollars more then the 7D @ bestbuy. 10% off coupon + the 5d mark II rebate, you can also use that on the 7D. Goodluck. I"ll go with the 5d mark II since you will be doing weddings,landscapes and portraits. Trust me your heart has already made its mind up. Even after you buy the 7D you will lust after the mark II

 

[qveda]

Hah ! blockburner28 your right !!


btw, I just called bestbuy . they said they don't have a 10% coupon right now and the don't accept anyone else's coupon. So they seem to be selling the canon for the same current instant rebate ($100) price as everyone else. but if you are aware of a legitimate coupon, I'd be interested !

 

[blockburner28]

I think the 7D with a 17-55 f2.8 IS is a killer combination... this is a tough lens to match on the full frame side. As I mentioned in another thread recently, there is no EF lens that covers that common focal range that has both image stabilization and a fast constant f2.8 - you have to choose one or the other. The 7D also makes it cheaper to achieve high-res telephoto shots with the 1.6 crop factor. You need to buy really expensive glass on a full frame to get the same reach (field of view).

Also, to add to what Toxic says, the metering and AF system in the 7D is pretty tough to beat.

I feel this, but if he ever want to go full frame he will have to take a small lost of selling that 17-55 lens

Hah ! blockburner28 your right !!


btw, I just called bestbuy . they said they don't have a 10% coupon right now and the don't accept anyone else's coupon. So they seem to be selling the canon for the same current instant rebate ($100) price as everyone else. but if you are aware of a legitimate coupon, I'd be interested !

Here is the link for the 10% coupon right now

http://dealspl.us/imageview.php?f=111365

trust me it stacks with the rebate price. When I bought my canon t1i it took off 50 dollars from the already instant rebate price. Goodluck man, but make sure your bestbuy has it if not order it through customer service it should be in within 3 days

 

[Edge100]

5D mkII >> 5D > 7D

It's not just about "new tech", it's about the stunning IQ you get from either of the 5Ds, the low noise, and the joy of full frame.

Not that the 7D doesn't have uses; for sports or BIF photography, the 7D is the choice. But for what you've described, I'd take a 5D (either flavour) over the 7D. In fact, if you don't already have nice glass, I'd suggest a classic 5D and one great lens.

 

[VirtualRain]

5D mkII >> 5D > 7D

It's not just about "new tech", it's about the stunning IQ you get from either of the 5Ds, the low noise, and the joy of full frame.

What's the "joy of full frame"?

Honestly, I would expect in capable hands, all three camera's would produce stunning IQ most situations. In a small set of unique situations, different camera's and lenses would excel. There is no camera/lens combo that can do it all.

 

[toxic]

I feel this, but if he ever want to go full frame he will have to take a small lost of selling that 17-55 lens

a small loss is a very small price for using the best standard zoom made for APS-C. it's the same as a cheap rental.

let's say you get a 17-40. slow, no IS, short, and not as sharp (as much as people want it to be, it isn't). its only advantages over the 17-55 are flare resistance and build.

now let's say you switch to a 5D later. now you have an ultra-wide. will you really use an ultra-wide? because most people don't need one, especially with a standard zoom that goes down to 24mm. if you don't, you still have to sell the lens and lose some money, and you might as well have gotten the better lens in the first place.

the difference in IQ between 35mm and APS-C is mostly in people's heads. you may see it in 100% crops or with heavy editing, but the difference really just amounts to DoF wide-open. no one can tell what camera you used based on a 800 pixel web-quality Jpeg or a 4x6" print. if you do print large, then by all means, buy the largest sensor you can afford...but most people don't print, much less make large ones.

 

[qveda]

I resolved my delimna ! got a great deal on 5D mk II and 24-105 L

I'll add a 70-200 later. But I'm very pleased with my decision.

Thanks very much to all your helpful suggestions !!!