Need help choosing a laptop for Engineering running Mac, Windows, and Linus on the same machine.

[doach]

Need help choosing a laptop for Software (cloud) Engineering running Mac, Windows, and Linus on the same machine. Will be working with Docker etc. Cloud mainly.

My choices.

M4 Air 15

1. 15 Air with M4 with 32GB RAM and 2TB SSD.

2.14 MBP with M5 with 32GB RAM and 2TB SSD.

3. 16 MBP M4 Pro with 24GB RAM and 1TB SSD.

4. 14 MBP M5 with 32gb RAM and 1TB SSD.

Looking at option 4 as of now just want some in sight on the other two. As far as price option 1 and 4 are about the same price. With option 2 and 3 being about $360 more.

Any help would be appreciated.

 

[mystery hill]

Your engineering programs are probably x86, and will need to be emulated when running Windows 11 ARM virtual machine.

Have you tested your software to see how it runs with emulation?

 

[doach]

Your engineering progress are probably x86, and will need to be emulated when running Windows 11 ARM virtual machine.

Have you tested your software to see how it runs with emulation?

Yes. It runs well on my Mac with 16gb ram. But not great. I just have Linux on a separate mini PC. I want all 3 on the same machine. Not sure about specs.

Edited to say Software (cloud engineer). So I need access to all three OSs.

Ram is more important here. SSD yes. CPU not that important.

 

[richmlow]

Hello doach,


For your usage, I would recommend the 14 MBP M5 with 32GB RAM and 1TB SSD.

Good luck on your decision!


richmlow

 

[iHorseHead]

1 or 2.
The lack of storage bothers me more on my Mac than the lack of RAM tbh.

 

[kschendel]

I assume you're planning on running linux in a VM? because the only bare metal linux I know of is asahi linux, and while it's an amazing project, I don't know that it's ready for any sort of production use.

 

[BigBlur]

Yes. It runs well on my Mac with 16gb ram. But not great. I just have Linux on a separate mini PC. I want all 3 on the same machine.

I assume this is an Apple Silicon Mac? Or is it an Intel one? Just double-checking, because there's a big difference between the two in terms of what you can virtualize or run natively.

As previous posters have already mentioned, you would need to virtualize OSes built for ARM. The one on your mini PC is probably x86 or x64, so you would need to find an ARM version of Linux and may need to rely on x86/x64 emulation for your apps there as well.

 

[rb2112]

Need help choosing a laptop for Software (cloud) Engineering running Mac, Windows, and Linus on the same machine. Will be working with Docker etc. Cloud mainly.

My choices.

M4 Air 15

1. 15 Air with M4 with 32GB RAM and 2TB SSD.

2.14 MBP with M5 with 32GB RAM and 2TB SSD.

3. 16 MBP M4 Pro with 24GB RAM and 1TB SSD.

4. 14 MBP M5 with 32gb RAM and 1TB SSD.

Looking at option 4 as of now just want some in sight on the other two. As far as price option 1 and 4 are about the same price. With option 2 and 3 being about $360 more.

Any help would be appreciated.

Tried this with my older gen macbook. After using it with my workflow, I decided on 2 machines, 1 win/lin and 2 macbook. For your list I like #4 because 1. ram 2. newest cpu for the needs you stated.

 

[doach]

Hello doach,


For your usage, I would recommend the 14 MBP M5 with 32GB RAM and 1TB SSD.

Good luck on your decision!


richmlow

That is what I was thinking. Thanks for the reply.

 

[doach]

I assume this is an Apple Silicon Mac? Or is it an Intel one? Just double-checking, because there's a big difference between the two in terms of what you can virtualize or run natively.

As previous posters have already mentioned, you would need to virtualize OSes built for ARM. The one on your mini PC is probably x86 or x64, so you would need to find an ARM version of Linux and may need to rely on x86/x64 emulation for your apps there as well.

Apple silicon. Ubuntu has a version on ARM and so does Windows. So I am good there. Using it with mainly Docker.

 

[doach]

1 or 2.
The lack of storage bothers me more on my Mac than the lack of RAM tbh.

Worried about that as well but If i split them up like 500gb/16gb for Mac and 8gb/250gb for windows and 8gb/250gb for Linux.

 

[doach]

Tried this with my older gen macbook. After using it with my workflow, I decided on 2 machines, 1 win/lin and 2 macbook. For your list I like #4 because 1. ram 2. newest cpu for the needs you stated.

You setup is my setup now. I just have a oldermac 2021 and want everything on one machine.

 

[doach]

I assume you're planning on running linux in a VM? because the only bare metal linux I know of is asahi linux, and while it's an amazing project, I don't know that it's ready for any sort of production use.

Bare metal Linux? Can you elaborate please.

 

[kenzee2000]

You know that the Mac is running a form of unix underneath everything, right? (Bourne shell)
If you need ksh etc. you can get them from homebrew.
Do you need a pure Linux platform to test your software? If this is for distribution, I'd always want to test on a dedicated test machine - not my development platform! Memory, drivers, etc. will always be needed to be tested on a native processor. And you'll need to re-compile on your distro-pc if your destination platform is x-86 based, anyways!

 

[rb2112]

If this is for distribution, I'd always want to test on a dedicated test machine - not my development platform! Memory, drivers, etc. will always be needed to be tested on a native processor. And you'll need to re-compile on your distro-pc if your destination platform is x-86 based, anyways!

This is another good reason I moved away from "1 machine to rule them all" and now have a win/lin box in addition to my mac.

 

[doach]

You know that the Mac is running a form of unix underneath everything, right? (Bourne shell)
If you need ksh etc. you can get them from homebrew.
Do you need a pure Linux platform to test your software? If this is for distribution, I'd always want to test on a dedicated test machine - not my development platform! Memory, drivers, etc. will always be needed to be tested on a native processor. And you'll need to re-compile on your distro-pc if your destination platform is x-86 based, anyways!

I would sure hope so. I am a cloud engineer. Right now I have a mini Ryzen PC with Windows and Linux. I am running Ubuntu and Windows and it works well. But my windows machine needs a upgrade and so does my Mac. Was thinking having everything on one Mac for when I travel. Now I am having second thoughts. Never thought it was a good idea but others I know do it. Just wanted some feedback. Would you suggest just keeping what I have and upgrading it? Both? I def need all three.

Thank you for your feedback.

 

[doach]

This is another good reason I moved away from "1 machine to rule them all" and now have a win/lin box in addition to my mac.

This is my current setup. But that doesn't help me when I travel and I need all three. Would you suggest just keeping what I have and upgrading it. I am also taking classes for my masters and its a pain to switch to all three. Taking some cybersecurity classes. Just upgrade my mini PC and get a lower spec Mac just for Mac. Basically keep my current setup but upgrade.

What PC do you have?

 

[Honza1]

I have 16 inch M1Pro MBP, 1TB SSD, 32BGB RAM, and run macOS + Win11 VM all the time. I occasionally run additional Ubuntu Linux when needed for testing. 32GB RAM works perfectly fine and experience is pretty good. Note, that I do not need excessive performance from the VMs as I just Win11 for few apps which do not exist on macOS and Linux for VScode and testing my Python apps on platform where they will be deployed. I can imagine there is way to overload this for sure and with some loads people will complain, but overall, I love the fact that I have all platforms for use any time, even without internet connection.
I would strongly prefer larger SSD - VMs get relatively large over time. 32GB RAM is perfectly fine for 2 VMs (each gets by with ~8GB RAM). If you want to also run some local LLM (which you surely can, I do run models up to 20b parameters with up to 1VM), more memory would surely help.
I think MBP is better than Air for cooling reasons, if you would run mostly with external display, 14inch with more SSD/memory might be better choice.

 

[doach]

I have 16 inch M1Pro MBP, 1TB SSD, 32BGB RAM, and run macOS + Win11 VM all the time. I occasionally run additional Ubuntu Linux when needed for testing. 32GB RAM works perfectly fine and experience is pretty good. Note, that I do not need excessive performance from the VMs as I just Win11 for few apps which do not exist on macOS and Linux for VScode and testing my Python apps on platform where they will be deployed. I can imagine there is way to overload this for sure and with some loads people will complain, but overall, I love the fact that I have all platforms for use any time, even without internet connection.
I would strongly prefer larger SSD - VMs get relatively large over time. 32GB RAM is perfectly fine for 2 VMs (each gets by with ~8GB RAM). If you want to also run some local LLM (which you surely can, I do run models up to 20b parameters with up to 1VM), more memory would surely help.
I think MBP is better than Air for cooling reasons, if you would run mostly with external display, 14inch with more SSD/memory might be better choice.

How do they all run? Well? Will be doing some Cybersecurity classes and maybe keep my current setup? Was thinking of just upgrading my mini PC and my Mac separately. Don't want to test on my main machine. My fist thought was to do this but the other posters changed my mind. Linux and Windows will be getting heavy use.

 

[doach]

This is another good reason I moved away from "1 machine to rule them all" and now have a win/lin box in addition to my mac.

Ok you convinced me. How about these?

Beelink | Beelink SER8 AMD Ryzen™ 7 8845HS MINI PC 8C/16T Frequency up to 5.1GHz

www.bee-link.com

15-inch MacBook Air - Midnight

Get free shipping on a MacBook Air laptop supercharged by the M4 chip when you order from apple.com. Select a model or customize your own now.

www.apple.com

Together cheaper than what I wanted to get in the first place. Thank you all for your input. It is much appreciated.

 

[rb2112]

This is my current setup. But that doesn't help me when I travel and I need all three. Would you suggest just keeping what I have and upgrading it. I am also taking classes for my masters and its a pain to switch to all three. Taking some cybersecurity classes. Just upgrade my mini PC and get a lower spec Mac just for Mac. Basically keep my current setup but upgrade.

What PC do you have?

When traveling I am able to adjust my work so that whatever I needed win/lin for waits until I return home. I understand not everyone has that flexibility, but if you are able to time-block, or segregate your machine needs, it can work fine.

When I did my masters I had a field job, so I would take pen/paper/videos in the field, use my laptop when in from the field briefly, and use my desktop in between those work bouts....I found that to be easier, and I found it a pain if I tried to switch back and forth between all three on one laptop. But I know of one other that did quite well with 1 laptop as he used VMs.

I know it is anti-minimalist, but sometimes having 2 of 1 thing can make your workflows sing. A base model mac for the road and your workstation at your desk/home/office. (and an exfat formatted drive to easily share files across machines, if you don't have a cloud service, or just need the security).

 

[johannnn]

1. 15 Air with M4 with 32GB RAM and 2TB SSD.

2.14 MBP with M5 with 32GB RAM and 2TB SSD.

3. 16 MBP M4 Pro with 24GB RAM and 1TB SSD.

4. 14 MBP M5 with 32gb RAM and 1TB SSD.

VM or Docker I instantly say MBP. You want a fan.

As for 1TB vs 2TB, that's more on you. How much do you think you need? Let's say you have 500GB after some VM/Dockers. Is that enough? How much space do you need for your engineering stuff? Offloading stuff to an external SSD is not convenient in the long run. But 2TB is damn expensive.

 

[doach]

When traveling I am able to adjust my work so that whatever I needed win/lin for waits until I return home. I understand not everyone has that flexibility, but if you are able to time-block, or segregate your machine needs, it can work fine.

When I did my masters I had a field job, so I would take pen/paper/videos in the field, use my laptop when in from the field briefly, and use my desktop in between those work bouts....I found that to be easier, and I found it a pain if I tried to switch back and forth between all three on one laptop. But I know of one other that did quite well with 1 laptop as he used VMs.

I know it is anti-minimalist, but sometimes having 2 of 1 thing can make your workflows sing. A base model mac for the road and your workstation at your desk/home/office. (and an exfat formatted drive to easily share files across machines, if you don't have a cloud service, or just need the security).

Thank you for your input. It is much appreciated. I had the same mind set on the set up. A jack of all trades usually isn't good at one thing if it's doing too much. Too many trade offs.

 

[doach]

VM or Docker I instantly say MBP. You want a fan.

As for 1TB vs 2TB, that's more on you. How much do you think you need? Let's say you have 500GB after some VM/Dockers. Is that enough? How much space do you need for your engineering stuff? Offloading stuff to an external SSD is not convenient in the long run. But 2TB is damn expensive.

The heavy stuff will be on my PC/Linux machine. Mac for mainly education general stuff. Mainly travel. I will run docker but just when I need it.

Just got the Beelink SER 8 with AMD Ryzen 8745H and 780M GPU for $509. It has 32GB/1TB and I added a additional 2TB for 3TB total. So it's a 32GB/3TB machine for $600 out the door.



I have external drives so plenty of space if I need more than 3TB. Just deciding on which Mac to get.

15 Air M4 24GB/1TB for $1679
Pros: More Ram/Bigger screen.
Cons: Slightly slower CPU/GPU

14 MBP M5 16GB/1TB for $1699
Almost same price.
Pros:Faster CPU/GPU
Cons:Less ram, smaller screen.

CPU or Ram? I am thinking CPU/GPU not that important to my workflows. RAM more important. Tough decision.

 

[Honza1]

How do they all run? Well? Will be doing some Cybersecurity classes and maybe keep my current setup? Was thinking of just upgrading my mini PC and my Mac separately. Don't want to test on my main machine. My fist thought was to do this but the other posters changed my mind. Linux and Windows will be getting heavy use.

When you run VM, you assign part of resources of the main machine away, obviously. If you need all resources often, running in VMs can become annoying and slow you down. Also, assignment is not necessary dynamic on some resources (cpu) so even idle VM can slow down the rest.
In my case my MBP is generally enough even when fraction of cpus are assigned to VM, so I am fine. Will you? No idea.

One note is that if you plan to run full blast any M4/M5 machine all the time, you should get desktop. At full blast battery life of the MBP or Air is not going to be that great. I occasionally use 40+W of power on my M1 MBP when I run some hard tests. Rarely, so I do not care that much, but with 40+W draw MBP will have only ~2.5 h run time, kind of my previous Intel MBPs when used for anything useful ;-)