New iMac this fall?

[Appleaker]

The full lineup of suitable AMD cards isn't out yet, just the m485x which is a re-brand of the m395x, and Kaby Lake isn't being released until early next year, meaning they haven't got anything to really update it other than DDR4 and TrueTone, and TB3/USB-C (also possibly a redesign that's due around now).
I think the 21.5" has enough for an update but not the 27". They could delay it until March next year or possibly a quiet update earlier.
Anybody think there's enough for a fall 27" update?

 

[vapourtrails]

I'm thinking a silent update might be in order to add new graphics cards and a few price tweaks on storage then a real update in spring.

 

[Dreadnought]

TB 3 depends on the updates of the pro line. The nMP and MB pro need to come out first with TB 3 before the iMac gets it. Else they could have thrown in TB 3 last year.

Every year they have updated the iMac in September/October. So hopefully this year will not be different. However I think the next update will be a serious update; much better and cooler gpu's from AMD, depending on the ram of the GPU (ddr5 still consumes a lot, 5s consumes less, NVME is the way to go), faster I/O with TB3/USB -C and next-gen PCIE, better screen and options for video input and output (2nd screen) due to TB3/USB-C.

I'm really hoping that the GPU will not be a mobile GPU, but a desktop GPU. However, looking already on the power consumption of the Polaris 10 line and Apple's design sickness for flatter designs, this is not likely.

 

[maflynn]

I'm thinking a silent update might be in order

I think that is more likely, given the delay of kaby lake. Apple is painted into a corner. Their 27" iMacs are on Sklyake and so there's not much the can do there (other then a minor spec bump and GPU upgrade. The 21" certainly can see Skylake and a better iGPU presumably.

Tbh, there's really not too much to get excited at this point, its not all Apple's fault as they can only work with the chips that intel has available.

In a similar vein, this reminds of the PPC days when Moto/IBM was unable to roll out improved chips for Apple and then when they did the quantities were insufficient, so there were backlogs. While we aren't seeing backlogs, we are seeing an inability by Intel to roll out their chips

TB 3 depends on the updates of the pro line.

We need to wait for Kaby lake, for TB3, Skylake doesn't have it, so that means 2017.

 

[Appleaker]

TB 3 depends on the updates of the pro line. The nMP and MB pro need to come out first with TB 3 before the iMac gets it. Else they could have thrown in TB 3 last year.

Every year they have updated the iMac in September/October. So hopefully this year will not be different. However I think the next update will be a serious update; much better and cooler gpu's from AMD, depending on the ram of the GPU (ddr5 still consumes a lot, 5s consumes less, NVME is the way to go), faster I/O with TB3/USB -C and next-gen PCIE, better screen and options for video input and output (2nd screen) due to TB3/USB-C.

I'm really hoping that the GPU will not be a mobile GPU, but a desktop GPU. However, looking already on the power consumption of the Polaris 10 line and Apple's design sickness for flatter designs, this is not likely.

I'm very aware that the next update will be very significant, especially in the graphics department.
However if you read the first line of my post you can see that the suitable AMD cards are not out yet. No Polaris mobile cards are available, just rebrands of the 300-series. That is why it seems unlikely at this point that an update would be this fall, but who knows, they could have a deal with AMD to get them early or something.
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I think that is more likely, given the delay of kaby lake. Apple is painted into a corner. Their 27" iMacs are on Sklyake and so there's not much the can do there (other then a minor spec bump and GPU upgrade. The 21" certainly can see Skylake and a better iGPU presumably.

Tbh, there's really not too much to get excited at this point, its not all Apple's fault as they can only work with the chips that intel has available.

In a similar vein, this reminds of the PPC days when Moto/IBM was unable to roll out improved chips for Apple and then when they did the quantities were insufficient, so there were backlogs. While we aren't seeing backlogs, we are seeing an inability by Intel to roll out their chips


We need to wait for Kaby lake, for TB3, Skylake doesn't have it, so that means 2017.

You can have TB3 and a Skylake processor but you're right it isn't natively supported by the processor.

 

[maflynn]

You can have TB3 and a Skylake processor but you're right it isn't natively supported by the processor.

Really? Because all I heard was that Apple (or people) were waiting for kaby lake thanks to the TB3 support. How would that work? Would Apple have to have custom components designed on the logic board to support TB3?

 

[Tiberius2000]

I think that is more likely, given the delay of kaby lake. Apple is painted into a corner. Their 27" iMacs are on Sklyake and so there's not much the can do there (other then a minor spec bump and GPU upgrade. The 21" certainly can see Skylake and a better iGPU presumably.

Tbh, there's really not too much to get excited at this point, its not all Apple's fault as they can only work with the chips that intel has available.

In a similar vein, this reminds of the PPC days when Moto/IBM was unable to roll out improved chips for Apple and then when they did the quantities were insufficient, so there were backlogs. While we aren't seeing backlogs, we are seeing an inability by Intel to roll out their chips


We need to wait for Kaby lake, for TB3, Skylake doesn't have it, so that means 2017.

Simple case in favor of update:

1. There is enough of a need to update the 21 inch. Apple is very unlikely to update only part of the iMac line.
2. DDR4, Polaris GPU and USB 3.1 are enough for a silent upgrade even if TB 3 is not included.
3. The press image of Apple making a sweeping fall show Apple taking leaps forward.
4. The timing leaves consumers the opportunity to buy nice holiday gifts.

Simple case against:

1. As maflynn said, the iMac will not be able to get a cpu update.
2. If the entire product line is updated, there will be consumers trying to grapple with financing a new phone, watch, laptop and desktop: for some users this could be a 3k to 10k+ fall. Apple would out price themselves.

As 2011 MacBook Air owner with outdated wifi and USB 2, I am desperate for an update.

 

[Krevnik]

Really? Because all I heard was that Apple (or people) were waiting for kaby lake thanks to the TB3 support. How would that work? Would Apple have to have custom components designed on the logic board to support TB3?

TB support is usually on the chipset, not the CPU itself. While the first Skylake chipset didn't support it, a revision to the chipset does, and devices started to hit the market around Dec/Jan, a few months after the iMac refresh. Some of the on-market TB3 products:

https://thunderbolttechnology.net/p...&field_prod_tb_version_value_many_to_one=tbv3

I'll just finish up by saying this isn't new behavior for Intel either. Intel has done these sort of architecture chipset refreshes in the past. If my memory is correct, Thunderbolt 1 came in on one of these refreshes for laptop chipsets.

 

[vapourtrails]

TB support is usually on the chipset, not the CPU itself. While the first Skylake chipset didn't support it, a revision to the chipset does, and devices started to hit the market around Dec/Jan, a few months after the iMac refresh. Some of the on-market TB

https://thunderbolttechnology.net/p...&field_prod_tb_version_value_many_to_one=tbv3

I'll just finish up by saying this isn't new behavior for Intel either. Intel has done these sort of architecture chipset refreshes in the past. If my memory is correct, Thunderbolt 1 came in on one of these refreshes for laptop chipsets.

Simple case in favor of update:

1. There is enough of a need to update the 21 inch. Apple is very unlikely to update only part of the iMac line.
2. DDR4, Polaris GPU and USB 3.1 are enough for a silent upgrade even if TB 3 is not included.
3. The press image of Apple making a sweeping fall show Apple taking leaps forward.
4. The timing leaves consumers the opportunity to buy nice holiday gifts.

Simple case against:

1. As maflynn said, the iMac will not be able to get a cpu update.
2. If the entire product line is updated, there will be consumers trying to grapple with financing a new phone, watch, laptop and desktop: for some users this could be a 3k to 10k+ fall. Apple would out price themselves.

As 2011 MacBook Air owner with outdated wifi and USB 2, I am desperate for an update.

Has Apple ever done a silent update in August? It seems to me they have a lot of products to juggle in a small time frame so maybe they will start the process early.

 

[scoobeesnac]

How about 'fall' announcement and January availability?

 

[MacGizmo]

The iMac will be significantly updated in Janutober. You can take that to the bank!

 

[Appleaker]

Really? Because all I heard was that Apple (or people) were waiting for kaby lake thanks to the TB3 support. How would that work? Would Apple have to have custom components designed on the logic board to support TB3?

No that's nonsense. It would require a controller that is separate from the chipset which has existed for over a year as you can see from the relatively wide adoption of TB3 on PCs, especially notebooks like the Razer Blades. The only argument your reason would be valid for is the 12-inch MacBook which wouldn't be able to fit the controller on the logic board, which is also the reason it doesn't have USB 3.1.

 

[inhalexhale1]

I think that is more likely, given the delay of kaby lake. Apple is painted into a corner. Their 27" iMacs are on Sklyake and so there's not much the can do there (other then a minor spec bump and GPU upgrade. The 21" certainly can see Skylake and a better iGPU presumably.

Tbh, there's really not too much to get excited at this point, its not all Apple's fault as they can only work with the chips that intel has available.

In a similar vein, this reminds of the PPC days when Moto/IBM was unable to roll out improved chips for Apple and then when they did the quantities were insufficient, so there were backlogs. While we aren't seeing backlogs, we are seeing an inability by Intel to roll out their chips


We need to wait for Kaby lake, for TB3, Skylake doesn't have it, so that means 2017.

21.5" is almost a sure thing IMO
....with 4K across the line, with new pricing, just like there was with the 27" after the initial release

 

[cptn.nemo]

Is there anything to the beats headphones offer for college? Can that be apple just being generous or trying to push their old products out before new ones come in after September when the beats deal ends. Would love some beats but I feel like waiting to see if there's a new imac

 

[JustMartin]

How about 'fall' announcement and January availability?

I've been wondering about that. The 2012 was an October announcement with December availability (although I think a lot of those who ordered didn't get them until January). It depends on how much of a gap Apple want between announcement and availability given that sales of the existing stock will start to dry up as people wait for the upgraded version.

 

[maflynn]

How about 'fall' announcement and January availability?

Will Intel have the Kaby lake chips ready for them in January? I don't see any advantage in announcing an update and then waiting several months.

I know they did that for the Mac Pro, but I think that was a little different. We're not looking AFAIK, a brand new design, plus that new Mac Pro was a long time in coming, so I think Apple was compelled to say something. With the iMac, we got an update in the Fall of 2015

 

[Sakurambo-kun]

I think that is more likely, given the delay of kaby lake. Apple is painted into a corner. Their 27" iMacs are on Sklyake and so there's not much the can do there (other then a minor spec bump and GPU upgrade. The 21" certainly can see Skylake and a better iGPU presumably.

Tbh, there's really not too much to get excited at this point, its not all Apple's fault as they can only work with the chips that intel has available.

In a similar vein, this reminds of the PPC days when Moto/IBM was unable to roll out improved chips for Apple and then when they did the quantities were insufficient, so there were backlogs. While we aren't seeing backlogs, we are seeing an inability by Intel to roll out their chips


We need to wait for Kaby lake, for TB3, Skylake doesn't have it, so that means 2017.

I can think of three things Apple could do:

1 - Switch to NVidia.

2 - Fix the god awful OpenGL drivers in OS X

3 - Support Vulkan.

 

[Vonjover]

Will apple ever embrace VR and strengthen their iMac GPU's? or will this fall into the Mac Pro category.

 

[MistrSynistr]

iMac is due for a chassis redesign.

 

[PatriotInvasion]

Will Intel have the Kaby lake chips ready for them in January? I don't see any advantage in announcing an update and then waiting several months.

I know they did that for the Mac Pro, but I think that was a little different. We're not looking AFAIK, a brand new design, plus that new Mac Pro was a long time in coming, so I think Apple was compelled to say something. With the iMac, we got an update in the Fall of 2015

Kaby Lake is simply a stop-gap chip to bridge Skylake to Cannonlake. The second tock in a tick-tock-tock cycle. I don't think Kaby Lake being ready is a necessity to release a newly designed 5K iMac with Thunderbolt 3 this fall. Apple totally skipped over Broadwell on the 27" model going with Haswell in 2013 and 2014 before skipping right ahead to Skylake in 2015.

I could totally see a Skylake spec bump chip combined with a case redesign and Thunderbolt 3 in Sept/Oct with Cannonlake being the update in late 2017.

 

[richinaus]

Kaby Lake is simply a stop-gap chip to bridge Skylake to Cannonlake. The second tock in a tick-tock-tock cycle. I don't think Kaby Lake being ready is a necessity to release a newly designed 5K iMac with Thunderbolt 3 this fall. Apple totally skipped over Broadwell on the 27" model going with Haswell in 2013 and 2014 before skipping right ahead to Skylake in 2015.

I could totally see a Skylake spec bump chip combined with a case redesign and Thunderbolt 3 in Sept/Oct with Cannonlake being the update in late 2017.

I hope you are right as this is what I am waiting for. The CPU won't get [much of] an upgrade, but a new case, reduced bezels, updated ports and improved graphics are all up for grabs. Together with DDR4 and possibly improved SSD speeds [and hopefully reduced cost on these].

 

[Appleaker]

I hope you are right as this is what I am waiting for. The CPU won't get [much of] an upgrade, but a new case, reduced bezels, updated ports and improved graphics are all up for grabs. Together with DDR4 and possibly improved SSD speeds [and hopefully reduced cost on these].

Well, we are due a redesign but Apple have previously waited 5 years between major redesigns, therefore it could happen next year (but hopefully that's not the case). As for graphics, I hope Apple have a deal with AMD or preferably Nvidia to get the mobile cards early or I don't think they'll be ready. But as said by others, they could announce it a few months before release.

 

[richinaus]

It isn't desperate either to get this redesign as it is currently an actractive computer. I am quite happy with the way it is, but if they are changing the ports, the rear will need re-tooling anyway so may as well take the opportunity to change it.
I am not sure they will do the announcement a few months before it is ready, but that is fine if they do, as long as we know something is happening.

 

[PatriotInvasion]

I hope you are right as this is what I am waiting for. The CPU won't get [much of] an upgrade, but a new case, reduced bezels, updated ports and improved graphics are all up for grabs. Together with DDR4 and possibly improved SSD speeds [and hopefully reduced cost on these].

And don't forget Space Gray and Gold options ;-)
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Well, we are due a redesign but Apple have previously waited 5 years between major redesigns, therefore it could happen next year (but hopefully that's not the case). As for graphics, I hope Apple have a deal with AMD or preferably Nvidia to get the mobile cards early or I don't think they'll be ready. But as said by others, they could announce it a few months before release.

Apple has never waited 5 years between iMac redesigns. I'll go back to 2007 for you:

August 2007 - First aluminum and black iMac in 24" and 20" models
October 2009 - All new design in 27" and 21.5" models
October 2012 - All new thin design in 27" and 21.5" models
October 2014 - Added 5K display to the same case design
September/October 2016 - ???
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It isn't desperate either to get this redesign as it is currently an actractive computer. I am quite happy with the way it is, but if they are changing the ports, the rear will need re-tooling anyway so may as well take the opportunity to change it.
I am not sure they will do the announcement a few months before it is ready, but that is fine if they do, as long as we know something is happening.

That's my take on things. Adding USB-C/Thunderbolt 3 will require them to reconfigure manufacturing anyway so might as well redesign the chassis. It's been 4 years.

 

[maflynn]

Apple has never waited 5 years between iMac redesigns. I'll go back to 2007 for you:

Perhaps, but I do wonder if they'll roll out a new design with nothing major on the insides, i.e., 27" iMac is already on Skylake. We may see a spec bump and better GPUs.

Then there's the case that apple is more focused on iOS products and is not spending time or energy on the the Mac side of things. I wouldn't be surprised if they stand pat on the design and not do much this year