iPod New iPods Not as Cheap as we may think...

[James Philp]

I'm not sure if there's been a thread about this alredy (I couldn't find one) but the new iPods are no way near as good a deal as you may have thought..
I bought an iPod in Sept. 2003 (15GB / 3,700 song ($399)). Back then a 30GB cost $499 (3rd Gen). Let's compare with today: 30GB Photo: $349. Undeniably cheaper (as one would expect with cost per unit dramatically falling due to mass production). Well, $150 Cheaper.
BUT add in all the things you got with the 3rd Gen model:
Firewire Cable: $19
Dock: $39
In-Line Remote: (Say) $25 (Leaving 14 for the Buds)
Case: $29
That's $112! So only a saving of $38 or so (but i do guess you get more features) But the 30GB 3rd gen came out all the way back in April 2003. $38 over 2 years i'd say aint that great!
Of course you'd need a AV cable too ($19 more)

BUT - Consider This:
Original iPod Photo 60GB Was $599.
60 GB version is NOW $449. So again $150 cheaper, but this time there is no difference in the models (as far as i know) but with the original you got:
Dock: $39
Case: $19
Remote: $25
AV Cable: $19
Firewire Cable (& USB): $19
So that's $121 dollars of extras taken away, and a $150 price drop. Still a drop I guess!

What Apple have done (very successfully) is make the base product cheaper in the knowledge that people will buy the extras eventually anyway (although not that piece of crap case that came with them! ).
But I think some people will feel a bit misled over this kind of information, as Apple tout the HUGE price "drops" on the iPods, but in many cases, it's really mostly a "accessories drop"!

 

[joecool85]

I think its nice because that way if you don't want the extras you can save your $$, and if you do want them, its not really much of a price diff. I think thats a good thing. Let's people get exactly what they want.

 

[jayscheuerle]

Come on now... Did you ever price out a $399 Dell until you got all the accessories you needed? You're well over $600 by then!

And plenty of people use their iPods with NO extra accessories...

 

[abc123]

i think about it like this. if my ipod didn't come with a dock then i wouldn't have bought one, i gave my remote away to someone who didn't get one with theirs, i don't use the case. i didn't get a usb cable but now they come with those instead of firewire, so i would just use usb instead.

the only thing that i would miss is the wall charger (yes i know it was with the firewire cable)

 

[James Philp]

They still come with a charger i think!
I would miss the firewire cable the most, not just because I don't have USB 2, but even if i did, Firewire is FAR superior to USB 2 in terms of sustained data rate.
How much do you recon the markup is on a $19 firewire dock cable! - Sorted!

 

[rock6079]

i think there was a thread on this before.. oh well i cant find it either


anywase u ar correct.. as they really arent really cheaper.. but it isx better that they be packaged w.o any extras for those who dont want them and thus can get a better price..

i remember when they first announced the $100 cheaper ipods (forget excactly when that was) and when they updated the apple online store, they forgot to take away the from the info that it didnt come with extras and it still said it came with everything. someone on the forums mentioned they showed them a screenshot and they gave the person the extras at the price and not to tell anyone.. but i wasnt able to find that ... too bad i would have probably bought one

 

[James Philp]

i think there was a thread on this before.. oh well i cant find it either


anywase u ar correct.. as they really arent really cheaper.. but it isx better that they be packaged w.o any extras for those who dont want them and thus can get a better price..

i remember when they first announced the $100 cheaper ipods (forget excactly when that was) and when they updated the apple online store, they forgot to take away the from the info that it didnt come with extras and it still said it came with everything. someone on the forums mentioned they showed them a screenshot and they gave the person the extras at the price and not to tell anyone.. but i wasnt able to find that ... too bad i would have probably bought one

I imagine he also showed them proof of purchace around the exact time those errors were about! I just think apple could be a bit more honest, but then i guess that this:

We're selling the same iPod, for an every so slightly cheaper price, but we're not including any accessories other than the bare minimum cable, AC adaptor and ear buds, so it's cheaper for you!

But i also wish they had passed on the ear buds, i'd appreciate the price drop!

 

[James Philp]

I've also noticed that for best battery performance, you should charge over Firewire!
Why can't apple release USB 2 and Firewire iPod Packages, so at least new ipod users can choose. The ONLY reason not to use Firewire is if you don't have it on your machine it seems to me!

 

[Loge]

But i also wish they had passed on the ear buds, i'd appreciate the price drop!

They're not going to ship a product you can't use out of the box. OK, I know they don't include a computer.

 

[clayj]

I'm not sure if there's been a thread about this alredy (I couldn't find one) but the new iPods are no way near as good a deal as you may have thought..
I bought an iPod in Sept. 2003 (15GB / 3,700 song ($399)). Back then a 30GB cost $499 (3rd Gen). Let's compare with today: 30GB Photo: $349. Undeniably cheaper (as one would expect with cost per unit dramatically falling due to mass production). Well, $150 Cheaper.
BUT add in all the things you got with the 3rd Gen model:
Firewire Cable: $19
Dock: $39
In-Line Remote: (Say) $25 (Leaving 14 for the Buds)
Case: $29
That's $112! So only a saving of $38 or so (but i do guess you get more features) But the 30GB 3rd gen came out all the way back in April 2003. $38 over 2 years i'd say aint that great!
Of course you'd need a AV cable too ($19 more)

BUT - Consider This:
Original iPod Photo 60GB Was $599.
60 GB version is NOW $449. So again $150 cheaper, but this time there is no difference in the models (as far as i know) but with the original you got:
Dock: $39
Case: $19
Remote: $25
AV Cable: $19
Firewire Cable (& USB): $19
So that's $121 dollars of extras taken away, and a $150 price drop. Still a drop I guess!

What Apple have done (very successfully) is make the base product cheaper in the knowledge that people will buy the extras eventually anyway (although not that piece of crap case that came with them! ).
But I think some people will feel a bit misled over this kind of information, as Apple tout the HUGE price "drops" on the iPods, but in many cases, it's really mostly a "accessories drop"!

OK, I bought one of the 60 GB iPod Photos when the price dropped to $449... here's the list of accessories that was removed:

Dock: Don't need it, can't use it with iSkin (not easily, anyway)
Case: Don't need it, I bought an iSkin instead
Remote: Don't need it
AV Cable: Don't need it
Firewire Cable: USB's fine with me, and because the cables are too short anyway (44"?), I ended up buying a separate 6' Firewire cable and PocketDock

In other words, I ain't missing anything they removed from the old $599 package. So I'm cool with the whole concept of "let me buy the accessories I need, rather than charging me for stuff I may not use".

 

[James Philp]

OK, I bought one of the 60 GB iPod Photos when the price dropped to $449... here's the list of accessories that was removed:

Dock: Don't need it, can't use it with iSkin (not easily, anyway)
Case: Don't need it, I bought an iSkin instead
Remote: Don't need it
AV Cable: Don't need it
Firewire Cable: USB's fine with me, and because the cables are too short anyway (44"?), I ended up buying a separate 6' Firewire cable and PocketDock

In other words, I ain't missing anything they removed from the old $599 package. So I'm cool with the whole concept of "let me buy the accessories I need, rather than charging me for stuff I may not use".

Fair enough, as I said before, I think this system is probably better except;
1. There should be a Firewire option
2. Apple should not say, perse, that the iPod is "cheaper"! - If you look at the original thread title it says iPods not as cheap as we may think!

 

[clayj]

Fair enough, as I said before, I think this system is probably better except;
1. There should be a Firewire option
2. Apple should not say, perse, that the iPod is "cheaper"! - If you look at the original thread title it says iPods not as cheap as we may think!

I can't disagree with you on the first point, ESPECIALLY since the combo Firewire/USB cable costs exactly the same ($19.99 here) as the individual USB and Firewire cables. By that logic, it shouldn't cost Apple but a few cents more to include the combo Firewire/USB cable in the iPod box.

 

[James Philp]

I can't disagree with you on the first point, ESPECIALLY since the combo Firewire/USB cable costs exactly the same ($19.99 here) as the individual USB and Firewire cables. By that logic, it shouldn't cost Apple but a few cents more to include the combo Firewire/USB cable in the iPod box.

But the firewire charger is probably a bit more $$. I've heard that generally firewire components are a bit more expensive (probably summit to do with volume). Just goes to show when the combo cable is as much as a single one how much of a rip off they are!

I also own a pocketdock (the lineout one) for my mini to get lineout, they are really good! (You get some good audio cables with that model too!)

Why would Apple abandon Firewire so easily? The iMac i bought in 2003 (about 18 Months ago) didn't have USB 2 - that's not a long time to stop making something compatible "out of the box".

Box 1: iPod (XXXXX) USB
Box 2: iPod (XXXXX) Firewire

Simple eh? (You could just as easily put PC/Mac on it but this is technically incorrect and could be confusing)

 

[PlaceofDis]

to make things simpler i think they should just include the split cord, thats what i ended up buying, this would probably also lead people to buy the wall charger, so that they can have it charge and connected to the computer, i know i will probably be doing that as it will be simpler and charge faster, i can use firewire to connect to the computer and usb to charge now that they have the usb wall charger

 

[Chip NoVaMac]

Fair enough, as I said before, I think this system is probably better except;
1. There should be a Firewire option
2. Apple should not say, perse, that the iPod is "cheaper"! - If you look at the original thread title it says iPods not as cheap as we may think!

I understand where you are coming from. But Apple would not have made those changes unless they thought that consumers as a whole did not need/want the accessories that are now options.

As the iPod matures, the demand will slack off. As such Apple needs to be able to continue to show profits. The accessories are very profitable for them, since the margins are very thin on them for resellers.

 

[James Philp]

As the iPod matures, the demand will slack off. As such Apple needs to be able to continue to show profits. The accessories are very profitable for them, since the margins are very thin on them for resellers.

That is certainly true! I was thinking of getting a thin firewire 6 to 6 cable to go with my (new) pocketdock (with lineout for all those parties) and it's $14 for 19" !!!

The only other firewire 6-6 cables i have are for LaCie Drives (thick and long as hell) and the one i got with the Original iPod (also very thick and very unbendy! - remarkable how far it's come so quickly - that's what most other brands dont have - the 1st, 2nd etc generations!).

Worse still, in the UK they are £10, so more like $17.50! Grr!
£10 for just over a foot and a half of cable - i know it's white, but c'mon!

So now i don't know what to do, but I know i'll eventually get the new cable, because when it comes down to it, i wanna be able to use all 3 iPods I own with one easy solution:
1. Firewire AC adaptor
2. 6-to-6 cable (nice and thin and light and bendy)
3. PocketDock Lineout (&included Minijack-rca and minijack-minijack audio cables (with velcro tidies as standard) - I REALLY reccomend the PocketDock Lineout for $20 you get a lot).
4. Monster iSplitter (EVERYTHING by Monster screams quality, and this "simple" item manages it too - gold plated, beautifully made)
5. Shure E3c / GRADO SR80 (Away/Home)
(6. Pair of apple buds or apple in-ear to share )

Get this:
I own 3 pairs Apple In-Ear Phones:
1st broke (badly, lost all volume, damage from travelling round europe!)
2nd Kinda broke (bit of superglue fixed it!)
3rd got free for a mix-up from apple sending my Shuffle to the wrong person!
I also own 5 Pairs of buds!!:
1st from 1st Gen iPod (broke, awful, rubber bits now yellow!)
2nd from 1st gen iPod in-line remote set (also bad)
3rd from 3rd Gen iPod (still quite bad)
4th from 1st Gen iPod Mini (just as bad)
5th from iPod Shuffle (1GB) (ever so slightly less bad, but still bad!)

I am the apple headphone king - 8 pairs! Can anyone beat that?
(Thinks; maybe this is a new thread!?)

 

[Chip NoVaMac]

5. Shure E3c / GRADO SR80 (Away/Home)

All I can say is wow! Not sure if I could really tell the difference to be able to pay $179 for earphones. I am sure they are better then the Apple ones, but wow. Any less expensive alternatives that you might be able to suggest in the $50 to $75 range?

 

[zyuzin4]

60GB ipod photos didn't come with remote

 

[James Philp]

All I can say is wow! Not sure if I could really tell the difference to be able to pay $179 for earphones. I am sure they are better then the Apple ones, but wow. Any less expensive alternatives that you might be able to suggest in the $50 to $75 range?

You can tell the difference, massively, with both headphones.

The Shures you have to get a good seal first, but then the Bass is tight, accurate and reasonably large (all other frequencies. After I "unlocked" the volume on my iPod (I'm in the UK) it never goes above 1/2 - 3/4 with the shures, you have to be carefull, as 100% will damage your ears if you keep it at that long enough! The Shures basically pump the sound directly into your brain, you can't hear the outside worls at all when listening to normal\ music.

The GRADOs are completely different or course, but the perfect indoor solution. All frequency range is perfectly represented right down to the lowest bass, but background noise is not isolated, so best used at home. But saying that, people sometimes do wear them out.

They both are excellent and have their merits, the Shures are tiny and very light and (possibly - but each ear is different) more comfortable, and have a great case, and the Grados are the best sound quality I have ever heard on any system.

If you're looking for something cheaper then I've heard good things about the Shure E2cs (What Hifi? Gives then best in-ear headphone) and the GRADO SR60's are identical pretty much to the SR80.

Look at the Shures here
And the GRADOS here

You'll have to believe me when i say, If you're an audiophile, you'll love them!

 

[James Philp]

60GB ipod photos didn't come with remote

That's a good point, because it means if you want the remote, you are
1. Paying through the nose
2. Paying for another set of buds that you really don't want!

 

[Chip NoVaMac]

Continuing OT on earphones...

You can tell the difference, massively, with both headphones.

The Shures you have to get a good seal first, but then the Bass is tight, accurate and reasonably large (all other frequencies. After I "unlocked" the volume on my iPod (I'm in the UK) it never goes above 1/2 - 3/4 with the shures, you have to be carefull, as 100% will damage your ears if you keep it at that long enough! The Shures basically pump the sound directly into your brain, you can't hear the outside worls at all when listening to normal\ music.

You'll have to believe me when i say, If you're an audiophile, you'll love them!

Not sure that I am an audiophile, but I do enjoy my tunes.

Did take a listen to the Sony headsets that Apple has in their stores here in the US at least. They did sound sweet.

While there are times that I want to block the outside world out, I don't think that I would want to do that walking around town. As tempting as it is.

I jam with my tunes when I go out photo shooting, and as such I prefer at least hearing something around me for safeties sake. Any suggestions for that type of ear pieces?

Thanks

Chip

 

[James Philp]

I jam with my tunes when I go out photo shooting, and as such I prefer at least hearing something around me for safeties sake. Any suggestions for that type of ear pieces?
Chip

Did you check out the Grados? If you don't mind looking like a WWII radio operator gat those - believe me, the quality per $ is superior to any other 'phone.
If you want something a little more portable, do you want in-ear or over-ear?
I've heard good things about these (they fold up too) and the Sony MDR-ED21LP (google - but i dislike sony products! just a pet hate!)

All the heaedphones i speak of got 5/5 stars from What HiFi? Magazine.