New laptop for work : are M1 Macbooks good enough ?

[Loadiing]

Hello everyone,
I’m french so I’m sorry if I misspell some words.

I work as a webdesigner / graphic designer in a small company. I do nearly every graphic task needed.
My setup is a Windows 10 desktop with 2 external monitors. I have no problem with it, it performs really well.

For graphic tasks, I mainly use Adobe Illustrator, Photoshop and InDesign. Sometimes I use XD and After Effects.
For webdesign, it depends on the project. I have to install everything on my computer. I mainly use IntelliJ when I can, but for example I used Visual Studio 2019 recently for just one project.


Because of the COVID-19 pandemic, my company is going to buy me a laptop. I can chose whatever I want and I can use it outside of work.
Personally, I like Apple products. I have an iPad Pro 2020 12,9 inch and an iPhone 12 Mini but I never had any Mac.

I’m really interested in M1 Macs for those crazy performances and, of course, the Apple ecosystem. Will Roseta really works well in most situations ? I’m worried I will have to face too many crashes or worse, complete incompatibilites. My concern is that maybe those new devices are not really professionnal right now, but I haven’t used them myself. I just saw some Youtube / website reviews.
Also, we can only connect one external monitor to it and even though I can deal with it, it’s a downgrade compared to my current setup.

So I think about Intel Macs too, but they will be obsolete in 2 years. Yes, they will still work, but I don’t like the idea to buy it when you already know that Apple will give them up.

Finally, there’s the last choice : a Windows laptop. I use some Apple apps on my two Apple devices and I like that everything is saved on the iCloud.


As you can see, I’m not sure about my choice. Do you have any advice ?

Thank you

 

[LinkRS]

Hello Loadiing,

If this laptop is critical to your work, it is probably not a good idea to gamble on one of the current M1 based Macs. They work fantastically using Apple's applications (FinalCut, XCode, etc...), and even some current Intel-only apps work wonderfully with Rosetta 2. However, Adobe apps are not there yet, and you would run the risk of running into problems where you couldn't do your job. Eventually, you will be able to dive head-first into the M1 ecosystem, but if you chose to dive in now, have a back-up plan, just in case. Maybe purchase a backup Windows 10 laptop to use for Adobe, if the Rosetta versions or some of your plugins don't work right on the M1. Not to mention, with a limit of 16 GBs of RAM, depending on the images you work with, you could run into bottlenecks for that.

What you could do, particularly if you are keen in using the Apple ecosystem, is go ahead and get one of the higher-end Apple laptops, which currently still use Intel. If they come with Big Sur, or you update to it, you will be setting yourself up for success when you dive into 100% M1, as most developers who support Big Sur should support M1s, eventually. Plus, you can get up to 64GBs of RAM, which would be very useful for graphic work. I would probably get at least 32GB.

I am not saying that the M1s are poor choices, I am just saying that we are still early in the Intel to M1 transition, and the software is still catching up

Good luck!

Rich S.

 

[obamtl]

Hello Loadiing,

If this laptop is critical to your work, it is probably not a good idea to gamble on one of the current M1 based Macs. They work fantastically using Apple's applications (FinalCut, XCode, etc...), and even some current Intel-only apps work wonderfully with Rosetta 2. However, Adobe apps are not there yet, and you would run the risk of running into problems where you couldn't do your job. Eventually, you will be able to dive head-first into the M1 ecosystem, but if you chose to dive in now, have a back-up plan, just in case. Maybe purchase a backup Windows 10 laptop to use for Adobe, if the Rosetta versions or some of your plugins don't work right on the M1. Not to mention, with a limit of 16 GBs of RAM, depending on the images you work with, you could run into bottlenecks for that.

What you could do, particularly if you are keen in using the Apple ecosystem, is go ahead and get one of the higher-end Apple laptops, which currently still use Intel. If they come with Big Sur, or you update to it, you will be setting yourself up for success when you dive into 100% M1, as most developers who support Big Sur should support M1s, eventually. Plus, you can get up to 64GBs of RAM, which would be very useful for graphic work. I would probably get at least 32GB.

I am not saying that the M1s are poor choices, I am just saying that we are still early in the Intel to M1 transition, and the software is still catching up

Good luck!

Rich S.

I strongly disagree with your point about RAM. The way the M1 uses RAM is quite different. I struggle to picture what kind of workflow the OP might have that will trouble 16GB of RAM.

Where he might struggle is with the fact that he uses 2 external monitors. These MacBooks are 'base' models and do not have the right level of support for dual external monitors. Ultimately, it's still in his best interest to wait for slightly higher end models with 4 USB4 ports that will have the I/O bandwidth for dual monitors without crazy workarounds.

 

[darngooddesign]

While I can't say if this will satisfy your needs, you can also use your 12" iPad as an external monitor using Bg Sur's Sidecar feature.

 

[LinkRS]

I strongly disagree with your point about RAM. The way the M1 uses RAM is quite different. I struggle to picture what kind of workflow the OP might have that will trouble 16GB of RAM.

Where he might struggle is with the fact that he uses 2 external monitors. These MacBooks are 'base' models and do not have the right level of support for dual external monitors. Ultimately, it's still in his best interest to wait for slightly higher end models with 4 USB4 ports that will have the I/O bandwidth for dual monitors without crazy workarounds.

Well, that is your right . I have heard this argument multiple times on this board, that the M1 uses RAM differently. The "different" thing it does is allow for the CPU, GPU, Neural Engine, etc... to read directly from the RAM, simultaneously. In traditional shared situations, the RAM dedicated to the video is locked away from the CPU, and has to be copied to CPU RAM before it can be acted upon by the CPU, resulting in lost time, and more importantly reducing the amount available to the CPU for applications. This is cool, and definitely different, it doesn't change the way that applications use/need RAM. Unified memory doesn't reduce the amount of RAM needed, it just makes access faster. It still remains to be seen if Apple's method will outperform a more traditional DGPU route with its own dedicated RAM with tons of bandwidth. The M1 can read from the RAM with all components, but there is still only so much bandwidth that has to be shared.

Unless Big Sur is using some new amazing memory compression for just the M1s, any improvements will be shared by Intel based Macs too.

If you have evidence to support the claims that M1s need less RAM to do what other systems to, I would be more than happy to read it

Thanks for your input!

https://www.macworld.com/article/3597569/m1-macs-memory-isnt-what-it-used-to-be.html

Apple M1: Will storage and memory limits be a problem for pros?

Apple's new M1-based systems have been announced, and Apple avoided touting their memory and storage - for good reason.

www.zdnet.com

Why The New Macs Are So Short Of Memory

Apple's new Macs supposedly offer PC-beating performance - so why are they limited to only 16GB of memory? Find out here

www.forbes.com

 

[AustinIllini]

I'd hold off for the M1X or whatever the high end MBP gets

 

[darngooddesign]

I think the M1's performance on 8GB has a lot to do with the drive being fast enough that using it for Swap isn't a bottleneck compared to using more physical RAM.

 

[nothingtoseehere]

While I can't say if this will satisfy your needs, you can also use your 12" iPad as an external monitor using Bg Sur's Sidecar feature.

Sidecar is, on the one hand, a great feature. On the other hand, when I use my 12.9 inch iPad Pro as a second monitor alongside my 27" main monitor, it looks quite tiny. For me, this experience differs from having two monitors of rather the same size. But of course YMMV.

 

[leman]

Why not get one and try it out? You can always return it if it doesn't meet your expectations. From what I see around, Adobe stuff works just fine for now under Rosetta, and it will only work better down the road when the native version arrive. For web design, M1 is going to be a killer. Development-related workflows are insanely fast on that system.

 

[Loadiing]

Thanks for your replies.

I manage to work with 8gb of ram with my current desktop. Not that often but sometimes I need to close some apps because my ram is full, so this new laptop is the opportunity to upgrade to 16gb.

It seems that everyone recommands me to not buy a M1 Macbook.
I’m still thinking and I’m torn between a new Intel Macbook and a new Windows laptop now...

@leman : I don’t pay for it so it wouldn’t be appropriate to try it out but of course it would be nice to try all those softwares and be sure if I can keep it or not.

 

[cupcakes2000]

I can’t comment on the m1 as I don’t have one. But iPad Pro, pencil, plus sidecar will be a huge boon to your use case most - likely anyway. Unless you have a very high end cintiq tablet, you’ll love what that combo can do

 

[cupcakes2000]

Also, if you have the opportunity to wait, then do so. But if your current system already only has 8gb of ram and you’re getting along ok, then from what I hear you’ll be golden with any 16gb m1

 

[henry72]

my company is going to buy me a laptop. I can chose whatever I want and I can use it outside of work.

First of all... Lucky you!

Personally I would get the 13" MacBook Pro M1 with 16GB and a minimum of 512GB storage depending on your needs. Just make sure you can run all your existing Windows apps on the Mac. You will likely to discover more great Mac apps anyway.

However if you think you "might" need Visual Studio 2019, I would get the 16" with 32GB RAM if possible for running VM (Windows). Don't worry too much about the software support, Apple is very good at supporting old devices.

All the best!

 

[LinkRS]

Just for some added clarity.. Here are the current Adobe pages about the Apple M1 and Photoshop:

Photoshop, Apple Silicon, and Big Sur | macOS 11

helpx.adobe.com

And here are the release notes about the current M1 Native version which is available on the beta channel:

https://feedback.photoshop.com/conversations/photoshop-beta/photoshop-beta-for-apple-silicon-is-here/5fb359d3ca9d527a59c4677e

 

[dmccloud]

I think the M1's performance on 8GB has a lot to do with the drive being fast enough that using it for Swap isn't a bottleneck compared to using more physical RAM.

That is definitely part of the equation. The other part is that unlike the x86 architecture, integrated graphics do not partition off part of the system RAM for graphics. That means the system only has to copy data to RAM once, rather than copying once to the system RAM partition and again to the iGPU partition. Since both the CPU and GPU cores can access that data simultaneously, it actually reduces overall RAM utilization to some degree. While I do not think that this means 8GB on the M1 equals 16GB on x86, I do think that (in terms of effectiveness) 8GB on the M1 could equate to between 10-12GB on x86 because of the lack of RAM partitioning and data duplication. This could actually improve as Apple does more refinements to their CPU GPU cores and improves the UMA setup they are using.

 

[senttoschool]

Thanks for your replies.

I manage to work with 8gb of ram with my current desktop. Not that often but sometimes I need to close some apps because my ram is full, so this new laptop is the opportunity to upgrade to 16gb.

It seems that everyone recommands me to not buy a M1 Macbook.
I’m still thinking and I’m torn between a new Intel Macbook and a new Windows laptop now...

@leman : I don’t pay for it so it wouldn’t be appropriate to try it out but of course it would be nice to try all those softwares and be sure if I can keep it or not.

I'm a professional developer with some web design work. I switched to the M1. I use my computer for a living. I don't see any reason why you can't. I'd say go for it.

 

[s66]

Well, that is your right . I have heard this argument multiple times on this board, that the M1 uses RAM differently. The "different" thing it does is allow for the CPU, GPU, Neural Engine, etc... to read directly from the RAM, simultaneously. In traditional shared situations, the RAM dedicated to the video is locked away from the CPU, and has to be copied to CPU RAM before it can be acted upon by the CPU, resulting in lost time, and more importantly reducing the amount available to the CPU for applications. This is cool, and definitely different, it doesn't change the way that applications use/need RAM. Unified memory doesn't reduce the amount of RAM needed, it just makes access faster. It still remains to be seen if Apple's method will outperform a more traditional DGPU route with its own dedicated RAM with tons of bandwidth. The M1 can read from the RAM with all components, but there is still only so much bandwidth that has to be shared.

I think the M1's performance on 8GB has a lot to do with the drive being fast enough that using it for Swap isn't a bottleneck compared to using more physical RAM.

From reading up on this I think it's a mix of it all.

And the unified memory is not well-documented by Apple itself. I guess they still like the mystery too much to document it.

It feels like they use the M1's caches directly from the "disk" and bypass the RAM for storing things like the code that needs to be executed. That's a significant departure from the traditional way of locking down copious amounts of RAM (and possibly paging it out to swap) It does prevent them from letting code change itself without more measures, but it might explain why an M1 based system can start all applications it has installed (without using data in them) and without using RAM or swap to do so.

iPhones and iPad too use RAM more sparingly compared to more traditional computers.

OTOH: if you have a data set that's huge, it's going to be huge no matter what the CPU does as smartness.

As to a company paying for it: if you buy too early into the M1 system, you could get blamed for picking it. The intel choice is the safer choice if you need to take that into account. Moreover an Intel mac could also run their windows solutions. An M1 based mac is very niche in a business environment.

Adobe is notorious slow in updating, so if it's mandatory to use it: I'd go Intel still for a year or so.
Still the M1 macs can runs Intel code _very_ efficiently due to Rosetta 2.

I've introduced macs into businesses, it's not that hard in some businesses, and/or in some areas. It's much harder to get a whole company to be mac-only but that too can be done to a point.

In the end what always counts as final word: get the job done.

As to the horizon in a business: the intel mac is ok to buy: you'll get a performant machine, it'll be able to get support from apple for the next 3 years without any doubt. So there's no problem of there being better machines next year and even better ones the year after. After 3 years a laptop is written off (if not earlier) [depends on where you are and if they look hard at technical lifecycle vs. a bookkeeping/tax lifecycle] I've seen places that try to keep laptops 5 years, but it's insane. I've also seen places count on just getting 2 years out of a laptop just as well - and that too is a bit of a waste to be honest.

 

[AAPLGeek]

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Adobe apps under Rosetta 2 aren’t ready for professional use. Either wait until Adobe releases native versions or get a top specced Intel machine.

 

[s66]

Adobe apps under Rosetta 2 aren’t ready for professional use. Either wait until Adobe releases native versions or get a top specced Intel machine.

It's not just Rosetta 2, they already don't properly support Big Sur (which is the only option on an M1 based machine).

If you use Adobe software, you need to delay major macOS updates till they deem it fit to update the adobe apps...
And that precludes you from buying very recently released machines that cannot downgrade to an earlier macOS version.

 

[senttoschool]

Illustrator is crashing on M1 Mac (macOS Big Sur)

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InDesign constantly crashing on new Mac M1 Chip

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Adobe apps under Rosetta 2 aren’t ready for professional use. Either wait until Adobe releases native versions or get a top specced Intel machine.

You can find threads of Adobe apps crashing under Intel Macbooks. Using one-off examples isn't a good way to evaluable stability.

 

[cupcakes2000]

Double post.

 

[cupcakes2000]

It's not just Rosetta 2, they already don't properly support Big Sur (which is the only option on an M1 based machine).

If you use Adobe software, you need to delay major macOS updates till they deem it fit to update the adobe apps...
And that precludes you from buying very recently released machines that cannot downgrade to an earlier macOS version.

My Adobe apps, photoshop, Lightroom classic, illustrator and indesign, all run flawlessly on Big Sur on my Mac. I use them day in and day out for work.

 

[Toutou]

It feels like they use the M1's caches directly from the "disk" and bypass the RAM for storing things like the code that needs to be executed. That's a significant departure from the traditional way of locking down copious amounts of RAM (and possibly paging it out to swap) It does prevent them from letting code change itself without more measures, but it might explain why an M1 based system can start all applications it has installed (without using data in them) and without using RAM or swap to do so.

Nope, you can't "bypass" RAM as it's the computer's main memory. CPU caches are a way to speed up repeated reads and writes, and they do all that transparently, i.e. they're not a separate memory. Anything the CPU needs to work with absolutely has to be present in RAM at the moment, i.e. have a virtual memory adress that's inside a page that's loaded into RAM. So no, there hasn't been a significant departure, we're still doing memory the same way.

 

[Bacci]

I'm in the same boat, it's a real shame but there is too much software still catching up to the M1.
Some of the necessary updates that are coming out aren't free either -- I have software that runs just fine on x86 Big Sur but requires a paid new version to run on the M1 that functionally doesn't add much else than a few cosmetic changes.

 

[4sallypat]

I strongly disagree with your point about RAM. The way the M1 uses RAM is quite different. I struggle to picture what kind of workflow the OP might have that will trouble 16GB of RAM.

Where he might struggle is with the fact that he uses 2 external monitors. These MacBooks are 'base' models and do not have the right level of support for dual external monitors. Ultimately, it's still in his best interest to wait for slightly higher end models with 4 USB4 ports that will have the I/O bandwidth for dual monitors without crazy workarounds.

Agreed - the Unified Memory combined with the M1 RISC design processor handles use of "RAM" differently and the 8GB model runs circles around my 16GB Mini.

If the OP is looking for 2 displays, he should get the M1 Mini.

I love mine - M1 Mini runs faster, snappier, and no more heating with none of that dreaded fan whistling at high speeds (Intel).