Next Generation DVDs

[gkarris]

I don't know if anyone has run this poll lately...

I was just at Best Buy and got to see the newer Blu-Ray movies playing. I think it's true, Blue Ray movies have a lot of artifacting (I think it's because they use MPEG-2 still). HD DVD does not (MPEG-4?).

Well, hey, I had to watch a copy of Stargate SG-1 I missed which I just bought off of iTunes in the higher res and on my iPod with the doc on S-Video on my projector, I think it looks better than Blu-Ray!!!

Thoughts?

 

[MovieCutter]

Both camps over-promised and under-delivered. On top of that, the squabbling between the two is causing the consumer to not consider either. We won't have a clear winner for quite some time, and we may even have a next-next gen DVD format or, hopefully, digital downloads will take the market right out from under Blu-Ray and HD-DVD.

 

[Bibulous]

I think I will wait till I have a HD TV, that may be a while.

I am interested in data storage capabilities of the new disks so I hope one "wins" soon so the prices can come down and speeds go up.

 

[grizzlybrice]

Does anyone know of a site that has been reviewing both HD-DVDs and Blu-Ray Discs that has image captures from the transfers? I want to see it online 'cause I just do. Perhaps compared to each other and to regular DVDs?
If not... they should.

 

[nitynate]

WTH are you all talking about?

I use BetaMax.




Duhh.

 

[jhu]

bah, you kids. i still use reel-to-reel film, and that's the way i like it!

 

[eyemacg5]

bah, you kids. i still use reel-to-reel film, and that's the way i like it!

As in the stuff they use in the cinema/ theatre thats awesome its lots better quality than normal dvds or even HDTV


-jake

 

[Clydefrog]

I will keep my DVD thank you very much!

 

[gkarris]

Apple backs Blu-Ray?

Yea, but doesn't Apple back Blu-Ray? Doesn't Apple always back the winning format (like for the Macintosh when they adopted 3.5 inch floppies)?

 

[jholzner]

Yea, but doesn't Apple back Blu-Ray? Doesn't Apple always back the winning format (like for the Macintosh when they adopted 3.5 inch floppies)?

Yep, and firewire on the iPod

 

[BoyBach]

HD-DVD or Blu-Ray? I couldn't care less.

What's wrong with the normal DVD's that I use now?

 

[Sdashiki]

bah, you kids. i still use reel-to-reel film, and that's the way i like it!

Film is the only true high definition medium. Always will be IMO.

You can blow up film alot more than you could blow up 1080p images without loss of quality.

that said, its in all consumers best interests to WAIT for the dust to settle.

then NO ONE is left with obsolete stuff.

then again, if no one buys anything....

 

[~Shard~]

Yea, but doesn't Apple back Blu-Ray? Doesn't Apple always back the winning format (like for the Macintosh when they adopted 3.5 inch floppies)?

Actually, they back both standards - Apple is part of the DVD Consortium, therefore backing HD-DVD as well. And no, Apple does not always back the winning format. Remember DVD-RAM?

If you ask me, the format war is already over - and both formats lost. I will be adopting neither. I'll just wait for HVD in a few years or something similar which really revolutionizes the industry. Blu-Ray/HD-DVD is not it.

 

[clayj]

Here's something I wrote about this subject on another forum... good parts are in red:

OK, for a long time I was torn between these two formats... but what I just heard yesterday has convinced me that Sony has BLOWN IT with Blu-Ray and that HD-DVD is the superior format.

Here's the skinny:

• Blu-Ray does have higher video throughput rates and per-layer video storage rates than HD-DVD. BUT, Blu-Ray disc makers (i.e., movie companies) are all using the 10 year old MPEG-2 video codec, which is not as efficient as the new VC-1 codec that HD-DVD makers are using. So Blu-Ray is using an older codec that requires MORE disk space and MORE video throughput than HD-DVD to produce the same results. HD-DVD discs are all using the latest technologies, so they're using the space they have more efficiently; Blu-Ray is wasting its advantages by using older technologies.
• Because HD-DVD disc makers are all using VC-1, HD-DVD movies actually do look better than Blu-Ray movies. Blu-Ray movies, since they are using MPEG-2, actually don't look much better (if at all) than standard DVDs. (Did you know that 95% of the original bits of a movie are eliminated during the authoring process? That's how good the codecs for DVDs and HD discs are... 1 terabyte of uncompressed source data is being compressed down to 8.5 GB of space.)
• Right now, dual-layer HD-DVD discs (15 GB per layer x 2 layers = 30 GB per disc) are in production, and you can actually buy movies on dual-layer HD-DVD. Blu-Ray discs are all still ONE layer (25 GB per layer)... Sony can't get the dual-layer Blu-Ray discs to work.
• HD-DVD discs are MUCH more scratch resistant than Blu-Ray discs, because of the construction of the discs. HD-DVD discs contain their bits further inside the disc (at least .6 mm below the surface), while Blu-Ray discs contain data a mere .1 mm inside the disc. If you scratch a Blu-Ray disc, or even get fingerprints on it, you can ruin it.
• Also, because of their design, it's possible (and practical) to make hybrid DVD/HD-DVD discs, where one side of the disc is a regular DVD and the other side is an HD-DVD. This is NOT POSSIBLE with Blu-Ray.
• And the HD-DVD spec includes a lot of MANDATORY technologies, such as built-in Ethernet (so your HD-DVD player can communicate with the Internet for downloads, updates, and even live connections to new disc content), persistent memory (so you can bookmark clips from HD-DVD discs), and dual video-decoders (so you can do PIP off of a single disc... the main movie running normally, with a PIP of the director giving commentary, for example). These technologies are all OPTIONAL on Blu-Ray and none of them are in use in any available or announced Blu-Ray player.

Anyway, based on this, I've decided to back HD-DVD. I'm going to wait for the HD-DVD add-on for the Xbox 360, since it's only going to cost $200 and it'll be much easier to incorporate into my home theatre system... if it works well, then I'll consider a standalone HD-DVD player when there's more choice of players on the market (right now only the two Toshiba models are available).

Go HD-DVD!

 

[2nyRiggz]

From what I've seen from BR and HD-DVD...I'll stick with DVD. I only saw show model players playing and I know they are not in the best of shape but I really can't see a difference between them.

DVD is here to stay...well at least until the all in one HDVDBR comes out.



Bless

 

[clayj]

From what I've seen from BR and HD-DVD...I'll stick with DVD. I only saw show model players playing and I know they are not in the best of shape but I really can't see a difference between them.

DVD is here to stay...well at least until the all in one HDVDBR comes out.



Bless

Well, that's the other thing, isn't it? So many standard DVD players (including the Xbox 360, when the Fall Dashboard Update comes out) can do upconversion of standard DVDs to 720p, 1080i, or even (in the case of the 360) 1080p... and so many DVDs have been remastered lately that the difference in image quality between an upconverted DVD and an HD-DVD or Blu-Ray movie is quite small.

But I think it's indisputable at this point that if you compare the HD-DVD version of a movie with the Blu-Ray version, the HD-DVD version ALWAYS looks better due to consistent use of VC-1. The Blu-Ray side are cheaping out by using MPEG-2 and it's hurting them.

 

[XNine]

Wow, Clay. Talk about the most biased comparison I've ever read.

You hilight every little thing you don't like about BR, yet the fact that HD DVD having to need ETHERNET support (which is more than likely used for piracy rather than "updates") isn't in red?

I don't care which wins, I just want one format already.

 

[~Shard~]

Wow, Clay. Talk about the most biased comparison I've ever read.

Sounds like he's just stating proven facts regarding the codecs, thickness, etc. Facts are the facts, they don't lie. Show me similar facts (detrimental or otherwise) pertaining to HD-DVD and I'll take those into consideration as well, but for now, I don't see anything wrong with this information - I found it informative. If similar negative aspects of HD-DVD exist, I'd like to read about those too, but I haven't come across any as of yet. If you have any, please provide some links, I'd love to read them as well.

 

[NJuul]

Here's something I wrote about this subject on another forum... good parts are in red:

OK, for a long time I was torn between these two formats... but what I just heard yesterday has convinced me that Sony has BLOWN IT with Blu-Ray and that HD-DVD is the superior format.

Here's the skinny:

• Blu-Ray does have higher video throughput rates and per-layer video storage rates than HD-DVD. BUT, Blu-Ray disc makers (i.e., movie companies) are all using the 10 year old MPEG-2 video codec, which is not as efficient as the new VC-1 codec that HD-DVD makers are using. So Blu-Ray is using an older codec that requires MORE disk space and MORE video throughput than HD-DVD to produce the same results. HD-DVD discs are all using the latest technologies, so they're using the space they have more efficiently; Blu-Ray is wasting its advantages by using older technologies.
• Because HD-DVD disc makers are all using VC-1, HD-DVD movies actually do look better than Blu-Ray movies. Blu-Ray movies, since they are using MPEG-2, actually don't look much better (if at all) than standard DVDs. (Did you know that 95% of the original bits of a movie are eliminated during the authoring process? That's how good the codecs for DVDs and HD discs are... 1 terabyte of uncompressed source data is being compressed down to 8.5 GB of space.)
• Right now, dual-layer HD-DVD discs (15 GB per layer x 2 layers = 30 GB per disc) are in production, and you can actually buy movies on dual-layer HD-DVD. Blu-Ray discs are all still ONE layer (25 GB per layer)... Sony can't get the dual-layer Blu-Ray discs to work.
• HD-DVD discs are MUCH more scratch resistant than Blu-Ray discs, because of the construction of the discs. HD-DVD discs contain their bits further inside the disc (at least .6 mm below the surface), while Blu-Ray discs contain data a mere .1 mm inside the disc. If you scratch a Blu-Ray disc, or even get fingerprints on it, you can ruin it.
• Also, because of their design, it's possible (and practical) to make hybrid DVD/HD-DVD discs, where one side of the disc is a regular DVD and the other side is an HD-DVD. This is NOT POSSIBLE with Blu-Ray.
• And the HD-DVD spec includes a lot of MANDATORY technologies, such as built-in Ethernet (so your HD-DVD player can communicate with the Internet for downloads, updates, and even live connections to new disc content), persistent memory (so you can bookmark clips from HD-DVD discs), and dual video-decoders (so you can do PIP off of a single disc... the main movie running normally, with a PIP of the director giving commentary, for example). These technologies are all OPTIONAL on Blu-Ray and none of them are in use in any available or announced Blu-Ray player.

Anyway, based on this, I've decided to back HD-DVD. I'm going to wait for the HD-DVD add-on for the Xbox 360, since it's only going to cost $200 and it'll be much easier to incorporate into my home theatre system... if it works well, then I'll consider a standalone HD-DVD player when there's more choice of players on the market (right now only the two Toshiba models are available).

Go HD-DVD!

Nice, except that everything in red is wrong according to the wikipedia links on HD-DVD and Blu-Ray.

 

[~Shard~]

Nice, except that everything in red is wrong according to the wikipedia links on HD-DVD and Blu-Ray.

Thanks for the links, this is the kind of information I was talking about above! Very interesting - I love reading up on this kind of stuff....

 

[clayj]

Wow, Clay. Talk about the most biased comparison I've ever read.

You hilight every little thing you don't like about BR, yet the fact that HD DVD having to need ETHERNET support (which is more than likely used for piracy rather than "updates") isn't in red?

I don't care which wins, I just want one format already.

Wow, Oni. I know you're a PS3 fanboy, but seriously...

As Shard noted, everything I wrote is FACTS. HD-DVD includes Ethernet support (in the form of Ethernet ports on the players), but it is not required for a disc maker to use it. It's there to allow for cool features. The Blu-Ray spec doesn't include Ethernet as an option, and no Blu-Ray player to date includes Ethernet. The FACTS are that Sony has some cool advantages (higher disc capacity and video throughput), but to date these advantages are being totally WASTED because of stupidity at both Sony and the movie studios. The folks who are implementing HD-DVD are doing it right.

Yes, I too want a single format. I hate that we have two HD formats... if there'd been ONE format, I'd've gotten an HD disc player and movies the first day they were released, just as I did with DVD.

Nice, except that everything in red is wrong according to the wikipedia links on HD-DVD and Blu-Ray.

Hmm. Looks like things may have changed a bit since I first wrote what I wrote.

Doesn't change the fact that Blu-Ray movies look like crap when compared to HD-DVD movies.

 

[bembol]

iHD DVD! LOL

Only supported by 3 Studios and the Titles that are available/coming are Unbelievable! Not the brightest release but the Reference A/V Quality & New U-Control, exclusive to HD DVD by Universal take it to the next level!

I currently have 21 HD DVD's to date and will have 40+ by Christmas!

I don't know what Sony/Blur-ray is doing, where is Fox/Disney? MPEG-2 on a $1,200 CAN player is a joke...I borrowed the Samsung Blur-ray and just couldn't believe it!

Also, one of the Toshiba's advantages that Bur-ray can't touch is, Upconverting DVD's...I'm watching X3: The Last Stand. LOL

 

[gkarris]

As time goes on, the more confusion...

Wow, I went online to see the pros and cons of each format. When someone posts a pro/con of one system, they post the rebuttle of it on the other....

Like, I heard that Blu-Ray only has MPEG-2 right now, but it is capable of MPEG-4 and studios backing both formats will start releasing Bluray in MPEG-4 since they have to encode the movie in that for HD-DVD anyways.... what about the current Bluray titles?

I heard that Sony does have the dual layer Blurays available, and hybrid DVD/BD available also...

I saw a post of a guy online who actually hooked up his Samsung to a massive HP 60"(?) monitor that actually takes 1080p/24 scan signal (I guess a lot of TVs will take only 1080i and will upscale it to 1080p inside the TV) and he says Bluray is great! Do people actually have this sort of monitor?

Then, there's this whole 1080p/24 discs and if you want 1080p/60 Bluray has to take 1080p/24 go to 1080i/60 then to 1080p/60... what?

Then, I heard that the HD-DVD players if you have a 720p set that the player will take a 1080i disc, down it to 480p, then up it to 720p. They recommend to make the player output 1080i and have your set take it down to 720p (which my projector won't do, it just takes any signal you give it and shows that).

Wow, I'm now sooooo confused, I'm going to watch my Laserdiscs and Betamax for a while.....

 

[ReanimationLP]

Blu-Ray with MPEG-2 does have a lot of artifacting compared to HD-DVD. :/ And this is on a 1080p Sony HD display using the HDMI outputs.

Wee. 1500 posts. ^-^

 

[LastLine]

Smart money says HD-DVD. Why? Who wants a player and media run by a monopoly such as Sony?