MP 1,1-5,1 Noise removal (mechanical) in cMP

[macstatic]

I'm not happy with the (mechanical) noise coming out of my cMP (mid-2010/5,1) but am at loss what to do about it.

1) fans: mostly the power supply fan (not sure, but I think there's only one fan) which emits a constant and relatively loud humming sound.
The other fans (PCIe, front processor-cage, rear processor-cage) aren't completely silent but I can live with that.
There's also the ATI HD-5870 graphic card fan which I replaced recently (found a new fan on eBay). It's not completely silent, but I don't think I can get hold of any other replacements for this outdated graphic card.
Strangely, the Mac Pro service manual gives no mention of the power supply fan and neither lists it as a replacement part number, but rather the complete power supply as one part. The three other fans are all shown with their part numbers.

2) hard drives: it's not the spinning of the motors as far as I can tell, but the drive activity which gives off loud "ticking" or "crackling" sounds. This is especially noticeable when doing Time Machine backups as one of those drives are for that. The other drive is my main storage drive (I have SSDs for MacOS and my apps).
These are two "enterprise" hard drives, and the ticking can be clearly felt it I open up the computer and place my hand on the hard drive.

So I have some challenges here because (as far as I know), the fans can't just be replaced with some after-market types. There's a thread about this somewhere here, and from my understanding there are low noise Noctua branded fans which work, but there are all sorts of caveats. Geeky sort of stuff. I just want to replace the fan(s) and forget about it. As far as I know there's nowhere to get hold of original replacement fans either (?).

For the hard drives I'm wondering if some sort of mechanical rubber damping would help.
Maybe some special screws with rubber washers, or some rubber between the drive trays and the cMP access door (I had to buy a couple of new OWC drive trays/sleds to allow for the newer screw mounting pattern of my HDDs, and they're slightly off-specs when it comes to dimensions and mounting, meaning they (ublike the original Apple ones) slightly bulge against the cMP access door, sometimes causing vibration/resonance.

I'm sure I'm not the first person experiencing noise problems like this.
Does anyone have any suggestions/experiences with all of this?

 

[Macschrauber]

Use macs fan control to manually ramp up and down the fans to identify to noisy one.

 

[macstatic]

Determining the fan is tricky and even speeding up the fans (with Macs fan control etc.) doesn't always give it away. The best thing is to disconnect (or (carefully!) temporarily stop a fan with your finger) and listen if the noise has gone away.
I've done this with 3 fans (and the humming noise is still there), but see there are 2 more fans I can't gain access to (without complete disassembly). I've identified the following named fans in Macs fan control:

PCI = PCIe fan
Exhaust = rear processor cage fan
Intake = front processor cage fan

That leaves "PS" which I assume means "power supply" (if I recall correctly, the power supply fan is placed right in front of the power supply metal box, not inside the power supply itself).
But what is "BOOSTA" and where is it found?

EDIT: BOOSTA is apparently a fan inside the processor heatsink (a metal enclosure behind the memory DIMMs which contains the CPU).
It would be helpful if I could temporarily disable this and the "PS" fan (one by one) for a short while in order to figure out which one stops the noise. Are they wired up to the motherboard with connectors, or plugged directly in without wires? I should have looked into this when I replaced/upgraded the processor.

 

[Macschrauber]

you can control the speed with macs fan control and listen to the noise.

if you do this with each fan you might identify what fan makes trouble.

 

[KeesMacPro]

It would be helpful if I could temporarily disable this and the "PS" fan (one by one) for a short while in order to figure out which one stops the noise. Are they wired up to the motherboard with connectors, or plugged directly in without wires?

Generally speaking the Boost fan/fans are almost inaudible .
They are connected to the pcb of the CPU tray as a plug fixed in the CPU heatsink, so disabling them is not possible without removing the heatsink etc.etc.
Besides that I wouldnt recommend to let the MP run without the Boost fan/fans.

You are correct: the PS fan is in front of the PSU, and can be replaced but you'll have to remove the PSU.
The humming you describe sounds familiar to me.
I've replaced PS fans in several MPs , they seem to be one of the more noisy ones .

In case you'd like to replace it by e.g. Noctua 12X25ULN , you'll have to solder a bit ...
It's recommended ,when replacing the fan, to re-route the fan cable through the optical bay instead of behind the logicboard.

Although it may seem very complicated, with basic tecnical skills, it's a 30-60 min job.
This thread is very detailed about it:

Mac Pro (4.1/5.1) aftermarket fans WITH automatic SMC control

I've been reading around this subject for a while as a pet peeve of mine is noisy computers. My normal workstations are entirely passively cooled and silence is bliss, but I do still use my cMPs when I need machines with a bit more power or more cores for testing virtual environments and the...

forums.macrumors.com

 

[macstatic]

I've done some further checking.
It doesn't seem to be the PSU fan after all. Neither the three other easily accessable fans (PCIe fan, front processor cage fan (intake) and rear processor cage fan (exhaust) which leaves "Boost A" (single CPU processor fan).
With multiple fans running at once it's tricky to determine which one is affected even when manually changing the fan speed with "Macs fan control", but I'm now pretty certain it's the CPU heatsink fan.
The noise is sort of like a large and old style propeller aircraft engine -a humming of some sort.

There's also the ATI 5870 graphic card fan which I recently replaced (it was very noisy after years of use, and broke when I tried to open it, so I bought a new fan from eBay which I guess isn't too bad, but far from silent. And of course not a standard sized fan which can be replaced with a Noctua or something.....)


Soldering is no problem -are you referring to swapping fan connector pins?
Thanks for the link above for aftermarket SMC compatible fans. I've actually read it a while back, but found it very confusing with all the conflicting information. I just want to replace then fan(s) and be done with it. No manual adjusting or relying on SMC software in order to ensure the computer doesn't overheat. That stuff should all be automatic IMHO as originally intended.

I will re-read that thread again though -maybe I've missed the conclusion among all the discussions, which I'm sure is hidden somewhere. I'm also going to remove the DVD cage so I can temporarily stop the PSU fan simultaneously with another fan in order to better pinpoint the origin of the noise.

 

[KeesMacPro]

I just want to replace then fan(s) and be done with it. No manual adjusting or relying on SMC software in order to ensure the computer doesn't overheat. That stuff should all be automatic IMHO as originally intended.

The SMC is part of the OS and not some 3rd party software.
So the whole idea of above mentioned thread is exactly what you describe:
To replace a fan and enjoy the system controlling the fan as it was before.

In case you're certain it's the CPU fan, unfortunately there's no 3rd party fan with a rpm range as wide as the OEM Delta fan.
Might be the best thing to replace it by a OEM Delta again.
Note that the CPU fans for the single CPU are 80mm , and the DUAL CPU uses 2x 60mm fans.

 

[macstatic]

Sorry, I was referring to software which lets you manually control the fans.
Keeping track of fan speeds in order to determine when to set which fan at what speed is way too geeky for me. I'm happy to use the computer just as a tool and not a machine I have to babysit

In case you're certain it's the CPU fan, unfortunately there's no 3rd party fan with a rpm range as wide as the OEM Delta fan.
Might be the best thing to replace it by a OEM Delta again.
Note that the CPU fans for the single CPU are 80mm , and the DUAL CPU uses 2x 60mm fans.

Thanks for pointing out the CPU fan size. I wasn't aware of those differences.
Yes, it must be the CPU fan (single processor "Boost A") as I've temporarily stopped all the other fans one by one and the noise didn't go away. Oh, I also removed both HDDs and restarted the computer with just the SSD, so that should rule out anything else than the 5 fans (well 6 if you count the ATI HD5870 graphic card which I also temporarily stopped to check), right?

So all five cMP fans were custom ordered from Delta (I'm guessing this is the same company's website) and they didn't just sell it to the public along with their other products? Are there still places selling new original cMP replacement fans? I've seen used ones, but I'd rather avoid that.

Given that the original CPU fan has a wider speed range than non-original replacements, is that a cause for concern or does that matter just in extreme cases? I rarely hear the fans speeding up at all, but I don't want to risk damaging the computer either.
Is there actually a risk of damaging the computer permanently if a lower spec'd fan is used, or does it just mean that the cMP will automatically shut down earlier in order to protect its CPU and other circuitry if there's a lot of CPU load?

 

[KeesMacPro]

Keeping track of fan speeds in order to determine when to set which fan at what speed is way too geeky for me. I'm happy to use the computer just as a tool and not a machine I have to babysit

I guess the majority of cMP users like to use it as a tool and not a machine to watch over...
Nonetheless there are a few factors you may consider :
-Your MP is about 12 years old, so keeping it clean and free of dust is important to keep Temps low.
- the NorthBridge heatsink construction can be seen as a weak spot , so replacing the rivets and keeping an eye on the T every now and then is recommended
- when the MP 2009 was designed lots of hardware upgrades were not even developed (e.g. faster CPU, powerful GPU, NVMe drives etc.), so with upgrading your MP it has "to work a lot harder" generally resulting in higher Temps
- as you may have noticed with (almost every) newer OS there's more system activity running in the background, resulting in higher T of e.g. CPU
-the SMC (controlling e.g. fans ) is (typically Apple) designed to keep the noise low and not necessarily to keep all Temps low under all circumstances ,certainly not in case of a highly upgraded MP
-keeping the Temps low, is one of the ways to ensure the expected lifetime of certain electrical components

Concerning these factors, I'd recommend to install e.g. MFC , set the fans depending on your taste and workload and just enjoy this magnificent machine for a couple of years ,exactly as before.
No need to watch Temps constantly and manually interfere , once set MFC or e.g.iStats it just runs in the background.

Are there still places selling new original cMP replacement fans

AFAIK no, you may have to look for a used one.
The rubbers for the fans tend to dry out and to avoid a lot of headache , buying a heatsink with a perfect working fan inside might be the easiest solution IMO.

Given that the original CPU fan has a wider speed range than non-original replacements, is that a cause for concern or does that matter just in extreme cases?

If you installed e.g. MFC , you could check the max rpm the Boost A fan is running under max. load.
Note that , in case of a replacement fan with a rpm close to this, there's no more headroom for summer Temps, possible further upgrades etc.

Is there actually a risk of damaging the computer permanently if a lower spec'd fan is used, or does it just mean that the cMP will automatically shut down earlier in order to protect its CPU and other circuitry if there's a lot of CPU load?

TBH i never tested the scenario of extreme Temps, so I cant tell you with 100% certainty if the MP will shut down safely before permanent damage will occur.
I assume it will...

 

[macstatic]

-Your MP is about 12 years old, so keeping it clean and free of dust is important to keep Temps low.

Yes, I've cleaned it out thoroughly a few times, but not done much with the fans.
I have a nice anti-static brush which is great for this sort of thing, but apart from that I suppose dust enters the insides of the fans. Is there any way to remove dust and dirst from those areas?
I've read postings of people having gotten rid of fan noise that way so it may be worth a shot.

- the NorthBridge heatsink construction can be seen as a weak spot , so replacing the rivets and keeping an eye on the T every now and then is recommended

By rivets, are you referring to those mounting screws with springs for the entire heatsink? Where do they sell those? What do you mean by "T"?

- when the MP 2009 was designed lots of hardware upgrades were not even developed (e.g. faster CPU, powerful GPU, NVMe drives etc.), so with upgrading your MP it has "to work a lot harder" generally resulting in higher Temps

Good point and something I should keep in mind as I've replaced my (single) 2.8 GHz quad-core processor with a 3.46 GHz 6-core.

- as you may have noticed with (almost every) newer OS there's more system activity running in the background, resulting in higher T of e.g. CPU

Too true
Apple has a tendency to add more useless CPU demanding eyecandy and such with each new version.

-the SMC (controlling e.g. fans ) is (typically Apple) designed to keep the noise low and not necessarily to keep all Temps low under all circumstances ,certainly not in case of a highly upgraded MP
-keeping the Temps low, is one of the ways to ensure the expected lifetime of certain electrical components

Concerning these factors, I'd recommend to install e.g. MFC , set the fans depending on your taste and workload and just enjoy this magnificent machine for a couple of years ,exactly as before.
No need to watch Temps constantly and manually interfere , once set MFC or e.g.iStats it just runs in the background.

I may have misunderstood the whole idea....
Those tools are for overriding the fan thresholds, and not necessarily for "babysitting" the Mac by manually keeping track of each fan's speed and knowing which fan to set at which speed, right?

I actually do have iStat (I bought it to check the temperature when my GPU fan had broken (until I had gotten a replacement fan), and the first couple of weeks after having upgraded the CPU -to see if I had done the thermal paste and tightening of the lid etc. properly), but it doesn't appear to have anything but setting the fans to specific speeds. I believe I've seen the ability to set threshold settings somewhere (SMC fan control? Macs fan control?) so that the fans kick in at a higher speed when a certain temperature is sensed.
Is this how it all works when replacing fans with non-original ones?

AFAIK no, you may have to look for a used one.
The rubbers for the fans tend to dry out and to avoid a lot of headache , buying a heatsink with a perfect working fan inside might be the easiest solution IMO.

Oh, I have a feeling this could end up very expensive. I don't know of any place I could get a Mac Pro heatsink around here, and ordering from abroad could prove quite expensive.
Are the rubber mounts much different from the ones you can get from Noctua (see image below) or whatever, or too different to allow for modifying those?

(Image source:Noctua)

If you installed e.g. MFC , you could check the max rpm the Boost A fan is running under max. load.
Note that , in case of a replacement fan with a rpm close to this, there's no more headroom for summer Temps, possible further upgrades etc.

I assume I would hear even a "silent" fan (as the Noctua fans supposedly are) when running at its highest speed, and if I that happens I could keep track of the CPU temperature readings to see if they go down to an acceptable temperature or not. I suppose if they don't, and I therefore need to quickly save my work and shut down the computer I've made a mistake by replacing the fan and need to put the original/noisy one back in....
But I rarely hear the fans speeding up.

Are the "normal" and "critical" temperatures for the various cMP sensors listed somewhere so I can reference this to the various fan speed settings and how my daily use affects any temperature increase?

TBH i never tested the scenario of extreme Temps, so I cant tell you with 100% certainty if the MP will shut down safely before permanent damage will occur.
I assume it will...

I would think so too, but take nothing for granted. Maybe someone else knows (or has experienced this happening).

BTW, I've posted here in the SMC replacement fan thread for with some specific model questions. I really want to give this a go, but making sure I get the right type of fan for the CPU heatsink of course