Noob needs advise for Mac setup on gaming (4.1,5.1)

[nostra23]

Hi all,

I am a bit stuck in my thinking and would love to get your thoughts. So thanks in advance.

I have the latest MacBook Pro 13" for work and I am very happy with it. As I dont want to mix up private and business (yes, because of that reason too) I have a private MacBook 12". I only used it for the web, office and simple games (like Blizz Hearthstone or so). Works fine.

Both I usually connect to my LG27UD88W 4K through USB-C. Works very well.

Now I came across really nice games that need loads of power and the 12" inch is of course not designed for this.

Hence, I tried to do some upgrading but I am stuck in the thinking process.
First thing I did is buy a 2012 Mac mini Server with 2.3 Core i7. Its upgraded to SSD.
I just thought its small and powerful but completely forgot two things:
-It doesnt support 4K
-It doesnt have any GPU power

I dont know why but connecting the Mac Mini from Thunderbolt to Displayport of the LG Monitor - gives it 4K. It works okish. The mouse moves a lillte strange comparted to the Macbooks. But it works (without SwitchResx or so). Every Forum says it doesnt work.. but it does.

Anyway - this doesnt resolve GPU power. The games runs better but still lags if it comes to intense battles with many players.

So there are many solutions to go now.

-Easiest. Buy something new:
I dont like anything thats new. The new Mac Mini also has no good GPU, the new Mac Pro is now 5 years old and still expensive - plus not really good when it comes to upgrades. iMac Pro or iMac doesnt make sense since you cant use it as 2nd monitor (Target Display Mode killed with retina models) and I dont want two fat screens on my desk of which one I cant use when I work with my Macbook Pro.

-Add eGPU to MacMini
Its not really easy. Buy the ePCI enclose, buy a matching card, make sure the enclose has enough power, if not fiddle around with external power source, fiddle around with Thunderbold adapters... Then, in 10.14 the eGPU for Mac Mini 2012 and Thunderbolt has been deactivated so you need to hack the OS and decativate the save boot stuff. Upgrades kill it and there is the risk that somebody stopps supporting the script - then you can throw your stuff away ... + its not really cheap to buy a decent enclosure... and not pretty


So guess where I am landed? Here! At the fancy "lets upgrade a good looking "old" 4.1 or 5.1 to a nice power machine".

I read the upgrade thread mostly but still have some questions. Actually I have two.
From what I have read I can put in a decent GPU on the PCIe (even with my 4K screen), I can upgrade RAM easy and there are some processors that work fine for cheap money, put in SSD as OS HDD
Downsides: No USB3 (ok with me), Bluetooth issues (only using Bluetooth headset...)

Question1:
Is my thinking right or am I missing something? Do you have better ideas?

Question2:
CPU. Do all Mac Pros come with two CPU slots? I could find out.. if they only have one CPU from stock - is the second one empty or do they have a different board?


THANKS!

 

[tsialex]

Hi all,

I am a bit stuck in my thinking and would love to get your thoughts. So thanks in advance.

I have the latest MacBook Pro 13" for work and I am very happy with it. As I dont want to mix up private and business (yes, because of that reason too) I have a private MacBook 12". I only used it for the web, office and simple games (like Blizz Hearthstone or so). Works fine.

Both I usually connect to my LG27UD88W 4K through USB-C. Works very well.

Now I came across really nice games that need loads of power and the 12" inch is of course not designed for this.

Hence, I tried to do some upgrading but I am stuck in the thinking process.
First thing I did is buy a 2012 Mac mini Server with 2.3 Core i7. Its upgraded to SSD.
I just thought its small and powerful but completely forgot two things:
-It doesnt support 4K
-It doesnt have any GPU power

I dont know why but connecting the Mac Mini from Thunderbolt to Displayport of the LG Monitor - gives it 4K. It works okish. The mouse moves a lillte strange comparted to the Macbooks. But it works (without SwitchResx or so). Every Forum says it doesnt work.. but it does.

Anyway - this doesnt resolve GPU power. The games runs better but still lags if it comes to intense battles with many players.

So there are many solutions to go now.

-Easiest. Buy something new:
I dont like anything thats new. The new Mac Mini also has no good GPU, the new Mac Pro is now 5 years old and still expensive - plus not really good when it comes to upgrades. iMac Pro or iMac doesnt make sense since you cant use it as 2nd monitor (Target Display Mode killed with retina models) and I dont want two fat screens on my desk of which one I cant use when I work with my Macbook Pro.

-Add eGPU to MacMini
Its not really easy. Buy the ePCI enclose, buy a matching card, make sure the enclose has enough power, if not fiddle around with external power source, fiddle around with Thunderbold adapters... Then, in 10.14 the eGPU for Mac Mini 2012 and Thunderbolt has been deactivated so you need to hack the OS and decativate the save boot stuff. Upgrades kill it and there is the risk that somebody stopps supporting the script - then you can throw your stuff away ... + its not really cheap to buy a decent enclosure... and not pretty


So guess where I am landed? Here! At the fancy "lets upgrade a good looking "old" 4.1 or 5.1 to a nice power machine".

I read the upgrade thread mostly but still have some questions. Actually I have two.
From what I have read I can put in a decent GPU on the PCIe (even with my 4K screen), I can upgrade RAM easy and there are some processors that work fine for cheap money, put in SSD as OS HDD
Downsides: No USB3 (ok with me), Bluetooth issues (only using Bluetooth headset...)

Question1:
Is my thinking right or am I missing something? Do you have better ideas?

Question2:
CPU. Do all Mac Pros come with two CPU slots? I could find out.. if they only have one CPU from stock - is the second one empty or do they have a different board?


THANKS!

I won’t answer question 1, it’s a matter of opinion mostly.

Mac Pros 4,1/5,1 have the CPUs on a separate board, the CPU tray. Single Mac Pros have a single CPU tray with just one CPU socket, duals have two CPUs into two sockets. All the rest is the same and you can buy a single one and later buy a dual tray. If you want to do this, buy Xeons with X prefix (dual CPU), not with W prefix (single CPU ones), like X5680 or X5690.

MP4,1/5,1 have 2x x16 slots and 2 with 4x lanes but with 16x format. Slot 1 and 2 have 16 lanes each, slot 3 and 4 share 4 lanes.

 

[h9826790]

For your info. This is what my Mac Pro 4,1 can do with single W3690, 3x16GB 1333MHz RAM, SATA II connected SSD, PNY XLR8 1080Ti. I use 1080P for easier comparison because my monitor is actually a 3840x1080 32:9 monitor. But this build can game at 4K 60FPS high settings for most of the games.

Tomb Raider, 1080P, Ultimate setting.

Rise of Tomb Raider, 1080P, Max setting.

FF XV, 1080P, High Quality

StreamVR benchmark

 

[Partridge]

Gonna be honest here.

If you want to game, take whatever it was you were planning on spending on upgrades for the 5,1 and use it to buy a dedicated PC.

 

[mode11]

The 4,1/5,1 MPs are lovely machines in lots of ways, but if I were buying a desktop principally for gaming, I'd get a PC too (or even a PS4 Pro / Xbox One X). Even with the MP, you'd still need to install Windows in Bootcamp, partly for decent game choice, and partly for the much better performance (DX12 / Vulkan vs old OpenGL).

Despite being older, the MPs can still game pretty well though. Playing the recent FPS Wolfenstein: The New Colossus in Windows 10 at 1440p and Ultra settings, I always get well over the 60fps my monitor supports, and it looks incredible.
[doublepost=1547483494][/doublepost]

For your info. This is what my Mac Pro 4,1 can do with single W3690, 3x16GB 1333MHz RAM, SATA II connected SSD, PNY XLR8 1080Ti.

The 1080Ti is a beast whatever you put it in. The MP's only significant downside is single-thread performance, but running games at 4K is a leveller. At 4K everything is GPU-bound anyway, so faster CPUs wouldn't make much difference.

Edit: actually, your display is '1/2 4K', but the general principle still stands.

 

[Demigod Mac]

My setup is a 5,1 (6-core 3.4 GHz Xeon W3690) with a GTX Titan X (Maxwell, MVC-flashed), Soundblaster Z, Viewsonic 144 Hz IPS G-Sync monitor, Logitech z906 5.1 surround speakers.
Maintains ~ 120 fps in Overwatch most of the time without issue, the most intense fights bring it down to 60 but G-Sync helps mitigate that. Surround sound works great.

It can get the job done if you need a Mac workhorse that can also game decently despite being nearly 9 years old.

 

[nostra23]

Well first of all thanks for the answers. Really impressive what the "old" machine can do with a proper GPU.
Thats what i basically like most about it. Its a full Mac and you still can upgrade it with a lot of stuff due to PCIe.

One thing is not an option at all for me: Running Win (only) on the machine. I got away from Win like 12 years ago - I tried Windows 10 for business and I hated it sooooo much that i went back to OSX after two months.
It could be that I do bootcamp for a game.. but the stuff I play runs on OSX mostly.

So ... it seems i will go for a MacPro then. Many thanks for your help (And still let me know if you see any other option with OSX)

 

[Demigod Mac]

Well first of all thanks for the answers. Really impressive what the "old" machine can do with a proper GPU.
Thats what i basically like most about it. Its a full Mac and you still can upgrade it with a lot of stuff due to PCIe.

One thing is not an option at all for me: Running Win (only) on the machine. I got away from Win like 12 years ago - I tried Windows 10 for business and I hated it sooooo much that i went back to OSX after two months.
It could be that I do bootcamp for a game.. but the stuff I play runs on OSX mostly.

So ... it seems i will go for a MacPro then. Many thanks for your help (And still let me know if you see any other option with OSX)

For Bootcamp I recommend getting a dedicated SSD for the C drive (OS + current games) and a regular or hybrid for the D drive (games/storage).

There is a massive performance penalty for running games on macOS, even with a powerful machine.

 

[nostra23]

Thanks again to everybody... yesterday I bought a Mid 2010 (real) 5.1 with 3.33 Ghz 6 Core and 24GB of RAM.
As soon as the power adapter arrives I will put in my Sapphire 580 Nitro that I just bought ... and be very happy I guess

 

[tsialex]

Thanks again to everybody... yesterday I bought a Mid 2010 (real) 5.1 with 3.33 Ghz 6 Core and 24GB of RAM.
As soon as the power adapter arrives I will put in my Sapphire 580 Nitro that I just bought ... and be very happy I guess

Did you buy a Sapphire Nitro+? You should bought the Pulse edition. With a Nitro+ installed into a Mac Pro, the heatsink/fan will be over the slot-2, since Nitro+ is a 2.2 wide slots GPU.

Another problem is the maximum power usage, 237W with a Nitro+. Mac Pro is rated at 75W from the PCIe slot and 75W for each PCIe AUX power connector, so 225W.

 

[octoviaa]

a little suggestion, as tsialex mentioned the 580 nitro+ max power is a little bit offer than what Mac Pro can supply, you might want to undervolt.
H98 wrote a great tutorial below:
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/sapphire-pulse-rx580-8gb-vbios-study.2133607/

Your Nitro+ have dual bios hence you'll be pretty safe to do bios changes.
If you do not want to change the BIOS, you can just use the wattman from Radeon Driver suite to undervolt when playing game in Windows. In Windows you've got software options to prevent maxing-out the power without changing BIOS.

Unfortunately for OSX you need to change the BIOS as there is no software available for OSX to manipulate the GPU (overclock / underclock / undervolt). If you're using OSX for light usage nothing that will put heavy load on GPU then it is pretty safe.

 

[h9826790]

For gaming, I highly suggest the user spend may be 20-30 min to find out the minimum stable voltage.

May the card run cooler. Draw less power. And can improve gaming performance.