Observations of Windows and users

[Dane D.]

Recently I visited my brother, a diehard Windows user. He has a self-built box with a AMD Athlon 2.1GHz cpu, 1GB Ram, 120HD Master and a 40GB slave HD, ATi Radeon with 256 VRAM. We were looking at my photos I took with Canon A560 in Photoshop. The images were 7.68 x 10.24 inches at 300ppi, RGB, 20MB files. There were 18 images, he opened all of the at once and that is when I noticed the difference between Windows users and Mac users. I should also mention we were listening to Winamp and copying to a jump drive about 70MB of files.

Observation 1) Windows slows down to a crawl when multiple operations are taking place.

Observation 2) Windows users are impatient. He was getting upset that Photoshop wasn’t as fast he thought it was when handling these small files.

Observation 3) Windows doesn’t multitask to well.

Observation 4) Window users use the mouse and the tool bars instead of keyboard shortcuts.

Observation 5) Windows seems to be an inefficent interface. The explorer is strange, with it folders and files separated. The dual pane approach with folders that have little plus signs next to them.

Observation 6) Windows doesn’t copy as fast as Macs, either over an network, to another internal HD or external drive.

Observation 7) Windows users are too wrapped up in the minutiae of programs and settings.

Observation 9) Windows users are obsessed with video cards. It is my understanding that they only come into play when playing games or doing 3d work. Doing 2d work such as I do, they don’t seem as important.

Observation 8) Finally, Windows is ulgy too look at.

These are my opinions about watching and using Windows. I’m a Mac user since the IIcx days and use a Windows box for one client at work.

 

[clevin]

you can't generalize 1 billion people based on one of your relative.

and shall I say, your "observations" are more of the biased opinions you have for years already.

 

[costabunny]

This is going to turn into another Windows vs OSX fight (yawn)

if he has made observations then great - and he is expressing them - why not express yours in the spirit of non-agressive conversation?

I agree with some, and disagree with others he has made. I was (and still am some of the time) a Windows User and to be honest I would not expect the system he observed to perform those tasks well.

Hi did state they were his observations and made no reference to generalizing all windows users experiences....

If he were to observer my Windows machine performing those tasks, his observation may have been different (my baby really flies ) .

my five pence worth

 

[sushi]

and shall I say, your "observations" are more of the biased opinions you have for years already.

I agree.

I would also say that the OP did make a couple of interesting points.

 

[Dane D.]

you can't generalize 1 billion people based on one of your relative.

and shall I say, your "observations" are more of the biased opinions you have for years already.

Biased yes, I watch Windows users all the time, not just my brother. Our office has four units, so I can observe them first hand. Also, most if not all of our clients use Windows and when I meet with them it is entertaining to me to observe how they use Windows and watch the units crash or lockup. I presented this thread because I wanted to hear from people who use Windows and Macs daily, either at work or home, to hear about their observations.

 

[Dane D.]

This is going to turn into another Windows vs OSX fight (yawn)

if he has made observations then great - and he is expressing them - why not express yours in the spirit of non-agressive conversation?

I agree with some, and disagree with others he has made. I was (and still am some of the time) a Windows User and to be honest I would not expect the system he observed to perform those tasks well.

Hi did state they were his observations and made no reference to generalizing all windows users experiences....

If he were to observer my Windows machine performing those tasks, his observation may have been different (my baby really flies ) .

my five pence worth

Thank you, I have watched our PC tech use Windows and he flies through tasks. He uses keyboard shortcuts, knows the ins and outs of the OS, and teaches me how to effectively use the interface. I don't what another OS vs. OS thread just people's experiences and observations. We all use computers in our own way and for different things.

 

[thejadedmonkey]

Observation 5) Windows seems to be an inefficent interface. The explorer is strange, with it folders and files separated. The dual pane approach with folders that have little plus signs next to them.

I see you've obviously never tried to use finder for any real file browsing.

 

[Dane D.]

I see you've obviously never tried to use finder for any real file browsing.

Real file browsing? I know where my files are. Please explain your 'real file browsing.'

 

[Cameront9]

Honestly I think the Finder is becoming more obsolete day by day anyway. It seems clear that the future is in database management apps, like iPhoto and iTunes, that hide all the actual files from the user. The "Finder" will become transparent and only geeks who want to mess with system files will delve into it....At least that's where I see things going...

 

[MisterMe]

Real file browsing? I know where my files are. Please explain your 'real file browsing.'

Usually, threads like this bore me to tears, but you have breathed new life into the issue. At the root of your observations, I take it, is a myth promoted by Windows users and accepted by too many Mac users that Windows users are more sophisticated than Mac users.

Of course, this is not true. The vast majority of Windows computers are business appliances. The vast majority of Windows users are wage slaves. My experience with them is that they demand training for any new element added to their workflow.

Then there is the software. Your response to thejadedmonkey is most telling. You know where your files are because it is easy to organize them on your Mac. Using the Windows GUI, it is difficult. As a result, Windows users [in my experience] do it rarely, do it poorly, or don't do it at all.

I must disagree with Cameront9. iPhoto's file handling features are special-purpose training wheels. However, iPhoto may be used to handle any photograph that is stored on any volume that is available to your computer. The Finder allows files of any type to be located in any folder [directory]. This is not going to change.

 

[Dane D.]

Usually, threads like this bore me to tears, but you have breathed new life into the issue. At the root of your observations, I take it, is a myth promoted by Windows users and accepted by too many Mac users that Windows users are more sophisticated than Mac users.

Of course, this is not true. The vast majority of Windows computers are business appliances. The vast majority of Windows users are wage slaves. My experience with them is that they demand training for any new element added to their workflow.

Then there is the software. Your response to thejadedmonkey is most telling. You know where your files are because it is easy to organize them on your Mac. Using the Windows GUI, it is difficult. As a result, Windows users [in my experience] do it rarely, do it poorly, or don't do it at all.

I must disagree with Cameront9. iPhoto's file handling features are special-purpose training wheels. However, iPhoto may be used to handle any photograph that is stored on any volume that is available to your computer. The Finder allows files of any type to be located in any folder [directory]. This is not going to change.

This myth that PC (Windows) user's are more computer savvy is laughable. I applaud your response right on point. I rarely have to search for anything, even on my co-workers Macs. Everything is easy to pickup,even for senior citizens like my Mom. Now this is a woman who has never used a computer.

 

[XboxEvolved]

Yeah Windows would slow to a crawl when he only has a Athlon 2.1 Ghz. If you had a PowerMac G4 guess what? It would slow down to a crawl too.

Your second observation is just of your brother as all the rest.

See, being a Mac user myself and liking the system for it's strengths but hating it of course for its weaknesses, I think one of Mac's biggest weaknesses isn't the systems themselves but their users. More specifically the elitist that don't realize that most the world uses Windows and gets along just fine using it.

 

[gibbz]

Yeah Windows would slow to a crawl when he only has a Athlon 2.1 Ghz. If you had a PowerMac G4 guess what? It would slow down to a crawl too.

Your second observation is just of your brother as all the rest.

See, being a Mac user myself and liking the system for it's strengths but hating it of course for its weaknesses, I think one of Mac's biggest weaknesses isn't the systems themselves but their users. More specifically the elitist that don't realize that most the world uses Windows and gets along just fine using it.

Well, one could argue that your opinion of Mac user's being elitists is based on your observation of only a few people as well.

 

[XboxEvolved]

If you read my post I say elitist Mac users, which if you can't see there are quite a few of them, then you aren't paying much attention. I can give an incredibly good example: at my college all the art professors urge you to buy a Mac over PC because "it just works" which is funny that people that teach you how to make advertisements to convince people into buying stuff are so easily moved by advertising.

They normally can't give you any real reasons (such as no viruses, the way it processes means less programs crashing, typically last longer than a PC, most art studios use them by default, etc). Or I remember when before Mac OS X was switching to Intel and going to run Windows, people were saying Apple would never be part of "Wintel" of course, drinking more of the Kool-Aid that Apple made.

Then again, you go to Windows users, and Windows users that have the money to spend on a good Mac would rather spend it on a PC and the only reasons they can give are things that haven't been true for 10 years, or never were true in the first place. It goes both ways really.

 

[SwiftLives]

Well, one could argue that your opinion of Mac user's being elitists is based on your observation of only a few people as well.

Yeah, but in our defense, it's really hard to be humble when we're so perfect.

In all seriousness, after using both interfaces to do graphic design, the Mac has a far superior user interface -- especially for running and switching between multiple apps.

The problem is most Windows users aren't willing to pay Apple's price premium and reinvest in all of their software for an unfamiliar computer and user interface.

 

[Schtumple]

Hardly an observation, more just a list of things your brother does...

I'm sure if you ran OSX on the same machine (which thanks to OSX86, is actually possible these days), XP would come out on top in terms of performance, in terms of just the OS performance, there isn't much in it on hardware like a Athlon 2ghz...

 

[Sun Baked]

Bah, that's like saying more Windows computers are found in double-wides than Macs.

 

[Dane D.]

XboxEvolved
Yeah Windows would slow to a crawl when he only has a Athlon 2.1 Ghz. If you had a PowerMac G4 guess what? It would slow down to a crawl too.

Guess what, my work (G4/467) runs runs circles around Windows computers running Photoshop, along with about 10 other apps running too. I guess I was expecting more performance given his specs.

XboxEvolved
Your second observation is just of your brother as all the rest.

You didn't read post #5 where I mention I observe PC users in my own company and clients. It just amazing to see Windows users and the clunky interface they are forced to use.

XboxEvolved
See, being a Mac user myself and liking the system for it's strengths but hating it of course for its weaknesses, I think one of Mac's biggest weaknesses isn't the systems themselves but their users. More specifically the elitist that don't realize that most the world uses Windows and gets along just fine using it.

What weaknesses, provide a list to back up your statement. The only weakness I see, is that there isn't more companies using Macs and enjoying a less troublesome OS. Which I think could save the companies many thousands of dollars and increase productivity per employee. Think of all the MS licensing BS, the need for an IT person and/or staff, the constant daily drudgery of anti-virus, anti-whatever downloads. As a proud owner of Macs, the "elitist" label is one I wear with pride. Because at the end of the day, not once did I have to swear at my computer.

Cameront9
Honestly I think the Finder is becoming more obsolete day by day anyway. It seems clear that the future is in database management apps, like iPhoto and iTunes, that hide all the actual files from the user. The "Finder" will become transparent and only geeks who want to mess with system files will delve into it....At least that's where I see things going...

If the Finder is so obsolete, than why has it endured for so long? I find it much more simple to use than the way Windows Explorer does things.

Schtumple
Hardly an observation, more just a list of things your brother does...

I'm sure if you ran OSX on the same machine (which thanks to OSX86, is actually possible these days), XP would come out on top in terms of performance, in terms of just the OS performance, there isn't much in it on hardware like a Athlon 2ghz...

See post #5. I have to disagree on performance. I can bring any PC to its' knees by running graphic and layout programs at the same time. I'm stuck with a P4 3.0GHz and P4 1.8GHz that consistently crash trying to do graphic work.

 

[chewietobbacca]

As the entire iphone 2 release gaffe showed, companies aren't going to move to OSX because the OS they rely upon the most (and is actually reliable and usable) happens to be *gasp* Windows!

Yes, most users who buy Macs are usually general purpose computer users, and thus having a comfortable UI is what they want, because that's how most use it.

However, when you realize that 90%+ of users around the world use Windows, its because the vast majority of companies use Windows as well. And companies don't care if their interfaces are the coolest thing ever - they want a OS that is reliable and can be tailored to their needs! And unfortunately for Apple, OSX and Macs are meant to be end-to-end, which throws out the ability to tailor to their needs. Add in the fact that Windows is more than just XP and Vista (for example, Windows Server and Enterprise editions) and they are quite reliable, and the fact that no company wants to deal with Apple being the only provider of Macs (whereas a company can cut deals with the Dells, HP's, Lenovos etc. of the world and get corporate-use notebooks at $400 that would sell for $1200 on the market), and its clear why companies will stay with Windows-based computers.

That is also why there is a somewhat elitist attitude between both sides when both sides don't realize that their needs are very different. One side says they have a superior interface, the other side says they have superior customization, and somehow that means the other side is wanting the wrong thing

As far as whether Windows is running slow on your computer or it crashes, that's as much up to the user as anything. Mac's crash too - the list of bugs that Leopard has was not exactly a minor annoyance either. And FWIW, the hardware you use to run your computer will matter a lot (as well as whether you choose to maintain your computer, or go crazy with the websites you go to and stuff you download). This is true for any computer, OS X or Windows.

Try running XP on a Pentium 3 and of course it's going to be ridiculously slow. Not to mention an Athlon (not even K8 i bet) with 1GB RAM and other hardware that seems like it's from 8 years ago. My dad's XP computer with a Pen 4 is blazingly slow, in part because the hardware specs are junk (P4, 'nuff said) and because he downloads so much random junk from who knows where. Or you could use my enthusiast's desktop, a QX9650 @ 4.0GHz w/ 4GB RAM on Vista 64 on a Raptor X, which is alsosmartly used, and it's blazingly fast and responsive.

The need to insist that you have a superior product on hand gets tiring. There's different needs for everyone and Apple is really tapping into the crowd that wants a computer for general use and because Macs are now compatible with mainstream softwares.

 

[Dane D.]

Yes, most users who buy Macs are usually general purpose computer users, and thus having a comfortable UI is what they want, because that's how most use it.

General purpose, lets see, they rule the graphics world, the music world and the education world. As a professional photographer and graphic production artist, I don't know anybody that uses Windows for running Photoshop to make a living.

However, when you realize that 90%+ of users around the world use Windows, its because the vast majority of companies use Windows as well. And companies don't care if their interfaces are the coolest thing ever - they want a OS that is reliable and can be tailored to their needs! And unfortunately for Apple, OSX and Macs are meant to be end-to-end, which throws out the ability to tailor to their needs. Add in the fact that Windows is more than just XP and Vista (for example, Windows Server and Enterprise editions) and they are quite reliable, and the fact that no company wants to deal with Apple being the only provider of Macs (whereas a company can cut deals with the Dells, HP's, Lenovos etc. of the world and get corporate-use notebooks at $400 that would sell for $1200 on the market), and its clear why companies will stay with Windows-based computers.

Those same companies have to maintain a staff of IT people just to service and educate the employees on using them. Thus the savings is a wash in the long run.

That is also why there is a somewhat elitist attitude between both sides when both sides don't realize that their needs are very different. One side says they have a superior interface, the other side says they have superior customization, and somehow that means the other side is wanting the wrong thing

That was part of my observation, the minutiae of Windows users, too wrapped up in customization.

As far as whether Windows is running slow on your computer or it crashes, that's as much up to the user as anything. Mac's crash too - the list of bugs that Leopard has was not exactly a minor annoyance either. And FWIW, the hardware you use to run your computer will matter a lot (as well as whether you choose to maintain your computer, or go crazy with the websites you go to and stuff you download). This is true for any computer, OS X or Windows.

Disagree, with Mac OS, you can throw just about anything at it and it will still perform. I'm writing this on a 9 year old G3 that still feels just as fast as the day I bought it. The Windows system needs constant attention to maintain peak performance.

Try running XP on a Pentium 3 and of course it's going to be ridiculously slow. Not to mention an Athlon (not even K8 i bet) with 1GB RAM and other hardware that seems like it's from 8 years ago. My dad's XP computer with a Pen 4 is blazingly slow, in part because the hardware specs are junk (P4, 'nuff said) and because he downloads so much random junk from who knows where. Or you could use my enthusiast's desktop, a QX9650 @ 4.0GHz w/ 4GB RAM on Vista 64 on a Raptor X, which is alsosmartly used, and it's blazingly fast and responsive.

Funny I can have many (read 20) 28MB 300 dpi images open in Photoshop, run Thunderbird, Camino, Illustrator, QuarkXPress, InDesign, NeoOffice, Acrobat, Preview, Dreamweaver and still perform without a hitch, Windows can't do that.

The need to insist that you have a superior product on hand gets tiring. There's different needs for everyone and Apple is really tapping into the crowd that wants a computer for general use and because Macs are now compatible with mainstream softwares.

What's tiring is trying to use Windows, I expected more from the Windows diehard and more responses about what people observe.