Resolved Old rMBP w. discrete gfx card vs. new rMBP without for gaming

[Hapimp]

Hi guys,

Like the title says: I'm trying to find out, if a new Retina Macbook Pro 15" w. Iris graphics card is better than the 'old' Retina Macbook pro 15" with the GeForce GT 650M for gaming.

I have looked at the other threads, so am aware of the power/noise/heat drawback of the discrete card. These things don't matter too much, I am just tying to figure out if the GT 650M will be better for gaming (in OS X as well as Windows/bootcamp) than the Iris card.

Thanks guys!

 

[Laco]

If your only concern is gaming I would pick up the $1599 refurbished 2012 15 inch Macbook Pro.

 

[Stetrain]

I am just tying to figure out if the GT 650M will be better for gaming (in OS X as well as Windows/bootcamp) than the Iris card.

Thanks guys!

The 650M is better:

http://arstechnica.com/apple/2013/1...s-15-inch-2013-retina-macbook-pro-reviewed/2/

I would recommend getting this:

http://store.apple.com/us/product/F...-23ghz-quad-core-intel-i7-with-retina-display

It's $60 more than the June 2012 model and you get the slightly newer February 2013 revision.

That's what I ordered and so far I'm very happy with it

 

[dusk007]

You can over clock a 650M almost to 750M levels. It is the same chip with less VRAM. Clock speed is the only difference. Iris Pro is great in general even good enough for quite a bit of gaming but it isn't as fast as a 650M or 750M.

 

[UBS28]

The 650M is better:

http://arstechnica.com/apple/2013/1...s-15-inch-2013-retina-macbook-pro-reviewed/2/

I would recommend getting this:

http://store.apple.com/us/product/F...-23ghz-quad-core-intel-i7-with-retina-display

It's $60 more than the June 2012 model and you get the slightly newer February 2013 revision.

That's what I ordered and so far I'm very happy with it

The 650m that Apple uses in the 2010 rMBP is overclocked to 900MHz. The standard version of the 750m is running at 967MHz already. So I don't see how the 650m can be faster than the 750m.

Also the 750 will allow for much higher textures than the 650m due to the 1gb VRAM limitation.

Also with disk intensive games (like World of Warcraft), the much faster SSD will be noticed.

 

[Wuiffi]

Maybe a stupid question, but what do you want to do wirh your machine except gaming? Because for the price of an rMBP you could get a 13" MBA for portability and a win gaming pc (desktop)

 

[sonicrobby]

The 650m that Apple uses in the 2010 rMBP is overclocked to 900MHz. The standard version of the 750m is running at 967MHz already. So I don't see how the 650m can be faster than the 750m.

Also the 750 will allow for much higher textures than the 650m due to the 1gb VRAM limitation.

Also with disk intensive games (like World of Warcraft), the much faster SSD will be noticed.

2012 rMBP*

I don't think anyone said anything about the 750 being faster than the 650, they are comparing the 650 and iris pro. Unless you are referring to dusk's post, but he is saying that the 650 is a lower speed with less VRAM than the 750, which agrees with you


Regarding the OP, definitely go for a 2012 or early 2013 with a 650m, integrated graphics are getting better, but the dGPU would be a better choice in this case.
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Maybe a stupid question, but what do you want to do wirh your machine except gaming? Because for the price of an rMBP you could get a 13" MBA for portability and a win gaming pc (desktop)

Some people want portable gaming
I personally prefer one single computer for all my needs, the rMBP is powerful and portable. (i don't know why people don't think its portable )

Thats my stance, not sure if the OP feels differently though

 

[Breedlove]

"We’re testing the entry-level Retina MacBook Pro here, but it’s worth noting that the higher-end $2,599 model comes with a dedicated GeForce GT 750M GPU that should outperform the 650M by a reasonable margin. The 2013 model with dedicated graphics also includes the Iris Pro 5200, and the system can switch between the dedicated and integrated GPUs to save some power depending on how much performance your software is demanding (just as last year's laptops did with the HD 4000 and GeForce 650M)."

750M > 650M > Iris Pro > HD 4000

 

[pedrofan]

650m and 750m are the same 384 shaders Kepler chip with different clock speeds, and in this case with 1gb more of ram.

If you use windows to play (as I recommend you) overclocking 650m will give you the same performance as 750m or even more.


Check this benchmarks chart at stock speeds:

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Mobile-Graphics-Cards-Benchmark-List.844.0.html

3dmark vantage marks:

rMBP
2013 nvidia 750m - 8338 (+1,65% over 650m)
2012 nvidia 650m - 8200 (+10% over iris pro)
2013 irispro 5200 - 7360 (+30% over 6770m)
cMBP
2011 amd 6770m - 5159 (+12% over 6750m)
2011 amd 6750m - 4512

As you can see 2011 to 2012 step was huge compared to 2012 to 2013 models.

If you are buying a rMBP for gaming, wich is not the better choice in the market, it is a good moment to save your bucks and go for a 2012 model as it'll give you similar performance for a lot less of money, and wait for the next generation. That's my POV.

 

[Count Blah]

Refurb, without question.

 

[Jimgpayne]

There's no comparison really... The 2012 rMBP is a much better deal - if you can still find one. My local Best Buy is selling them new in box for $1699. That's $300 less than the new 2013s, and includes the 650M.

For the moment (and this is going to be no longer true in th every near future), discrete graphics of the previous generation will almost always outperform the base integrated graphics of the current generation.

In this case, the 650M handily outperforms the 5200.

Jim

 

[Stetrain]

The 650m that Apple uses in the 2010 rMBP is overclocked to 900MHz. The standard version of the 750m is running at 967MHz already. So I don't see how the 650m can be faster than the 750m.

Also the 750 will allow for much higher textures than the 650m due to the 1gb VRAM limitation.

Also with disk intensive games (like World of Warcraft), the much faster SSD will be noticed.

The question was 650M vs Iris Pro, not 650M vs 750M.

 

[john123]

I would recommend getting this:

http://store.apple.com/us/product/F...-23ghz-quad-core-intel-i7-with-retina-display

It's $60 more than the June 2012 model and you get the slightly newer February 2013 revision.

I'd recommend pocketing that $60+tax and sticking with the 2012 model. You are virtually never going to see that 0.1Ghz make a difference. And you'll never get it back in resale value. Buy the 2012, get your wife some flowers and a bottle of champagne, and you'll have a much better night.

 

[Stetrain]

I'd recommend pocketing that $60+tax and sticking with the 2012 model. You are virtually never going to see that 0.1Ghz make a difference. And you'll never get it back in resale value. Buy the 2012, get your wife some flowers and a bottle of champagne, and you'll have a much better night.

The reason to get it is not the 0.1Ghz, but rather that it's a newer revision. You should be less likely to have issues like image retention.

Apple didn't drop the price of the 2012 refurbished model when the late 2013 models were out, it's the same price that it has been for many months.

The early 2013 model was $200 more expensive before last week's announcement.

 

[john123]

The reason to get it is not the 0.1Ghz, but rather that it's a newer revision. You should be less likely to have issues like image retention.

Maybe, maybe not. Either way, that's grounds for a warranty repair/replacement anyway, so it's not like a user would be "stuck" with the problem by buying the 2.3. To my knowledge, there haven't been any studies on the incidence of retention problems, but I don't think it's the preponderance of units. Furthermore, because these are refurbs, it's entirely possible that some of the stock may be units that were returned for image retention issues in the first place.

To me, it's not a compelling reason to spend the $60+tax. But to each their own.

Apple didn't drop the price of the 2012 refurbished model when the late 2013 models were out, it's the same price that it has been for many months.

The early 2013 model was $200 more expensive before last week's announcement.

Correct, that didn't, but that doesn't mean it's all of a sudden a "great deal." To me, it just means that people buying the 2.4's before were getting fleeced.

 

[Freyqq]

The amount of vram between the 750M and 650M is a nonfactor. Based on my testing of the 750M in Skyrim on bootcamp, once I start using more than a gb of vram, the game is so slow due to having to render so many textures that is isn't worth it.

 

[tinnyms3]

From what I've read so far, if you want to play higher rez, get the 2012. But if you are content with lower rez setting, Iris is capable. If this is going to be your only gaming machine, get the 2012.

 

[Hapimp]

Thanks!

Hi again guys - thanks so much for all your input and answers! Great response to a first post!

Looks like I will be going with the discrete card (or, rather my friend who is lucky enough to get a new laptop will).

He will do most of his gaming in Windows, so definitely great with the possibility for overclocking!

To Wuiffi's point, I have talked with him about getting just a cheap laptop and a desktop, but it's a no-go because of the small apartment.

So thanks again all, it was super helpful