Old School CAD. 68k? Experienced Draftsmen

[MrCheeto]

I've got a severe need to go back to some simple old-school CAD software.

I get to use modern AutoCAD (well, as late as 2012 I think) and it's kind of hair-pulling at times. There's too many knobs and levers that are intended to please everybody in every industry. I use maybe 1/10,000th of the features of this software and god help me if something gets toggled errantly and I have to spend an hour or two tracking down the issue.

This was not the case when I was taking courses. Back then, we were running at a max resolution of 1024 if lucky and the UI was probably designed in the Win95 era. It was super easy to use, though. All of the F-keys had a purpose. There were so many one-key commands that made it possible to cruise through many drawings quickly. I for intersection, L for the line tool, C for circles, etc. made it so easy to just draw.

One of my favorite ways to quickly draw is selecting a multi-line tool, for instance, and entering a length, tab, an angle, return, a length, tab, an angle, return etc. until a basic dimensionally-defined shape is created.

Now, even beginning a project is work. I just want to open the app, start throwing dimensional lines using only the keyboard and numpad, confirm that arc angles or divisions will work mathematically and close it up. I also often need to draw things around the house for renovation or rearranging etc. At the moment, my biggest need is to design a shop in my yard. I have all of my hand-drafting tools and I may just resort to that but it sounds like a perfect opportunity to test-drive some new old software.

I wouldn't mind putting my Quadra to some use. If you have a 68k app that fits this need, I'll gladly try. I also have PPC, Intel and of course my A64 Macs but I think using the older architectures would add to the simple-natured throwback feel. 3D and texturing is not a requirement.

Any draftsmen from the 80's/90's that have a piece of software they could swear by? Basically I need the MS Paint of CAD made for quick dimensional drafting with keyboard shortcuts galore.

 

[mikas]

I don't think there is none, maybe besides ArchiCAD, and used wrong, like as a 2D drawing tool. At least not for me, I need to add.

I tried ClarisCAD, not worth it ever I think. I tried very briefly LemkeSofts CADintosh. Not for me. I did do a course somewhere at 80's on AutoCAD, it was a PC compatible or something. First I was thrilled about it, but then - it was not for me either, way too archaic (even then at that time, huh).

So I am a ArchiCAD guy, first and foremost. I almost would do my recipe book with ArchiCAD. And my day planning. And Desktop publishing. And arranging the seats for my wedding celebration evening or so, whatever (big grin).

MiniCAD (Graphsoft) was a thing in 90's. Later it was bought by Graphisoft and it reappeared as Vectorworks (maybe I am missremembering some of it though, don't know for sure). It's a good thing as of today still. Very competitive featurewise. I don't know about it though any more than that. Tried it, but ArchiCAD won the battle for me.

That said, I don't think there is a free solution to this. Not for the old Macs. For the current Macs, I would say check out the free BIM stuff for blender, and their add-ons. Seems like good stuff. Maybe not ready for production yet, but I believe the big companies might be a little bit afraid of what's coming out from this/these projects.

Sorry, got out of context.

You need to find something abandonware and freely available or free. Don't know about MiniCAD, probably not freely available. ArchiCAD for sure not available for free, unless a student, then it's free I think. ANd it's only for recent systems, no older versions available to d/l or use.

So 'Id still say maybe CADintosh it might be, if you are in about 2D only, with simple measurements of a simple project. You'd might need to check some Macintosh repository sites to get those. Did not even check the availability of the software as of today, sorry.. Just digging the subject a lot.

 

[MrCheeto]

I’d like to focus on the older (c.90’s) software. Modern stuff is just so bothersome and grating. That’s why I switched from Adobe Cloud…suite crap whatever it’s called to Apple Aperture for photo developing.

I always figured ArchiCAD is BIM oriented. Now that I’ve looked it up, it appears there are versions available for download for 68k Macs. Were you using ArchiCAD around the late 90’s, such as version 5? How does it handle if I were to, say, strictly use it as a 2D tool?

I tried MiniCAD and while I generally like it, I think all of the shortcuts were too unnatural. I think many required the Command key or other modifiers and I’m not a fan of cramping my hands for long forgettable combo’s. Maybe I’ll revisit this one.

I ask for people’s personal input because there are things that arise only from use and not something that’s documented generally. The greatest example I have is from relying on a piece of software I think was called BIMCAD or something back in a CNC shop. There was NO tool for arc tangents. Couldn’t snap, couldn’t divide, literally no way to calculate a tangent on an arc. It was bad. Real bad. Every time I ran into the need to snap to an arc tangent, I’d go to lunch or call it a day. That one tiny programming oversight haunts me even all these years later. The pain is real.

 

[DaveOZ]

I'm an architect and I've been using all sorts of CAD since 1986. These days like @mikas I use Archicad all day at work. Yes it's an extremely capable BIM modelling tool but if you ignore all of that and focus on the basic 2D tools it is the fastest CAD I have ever used. The simple Line, Polyline, Arc and Fill tools will have any drawing done faster than AutoCAD. The snaps and guides are very intuitive. The Magic Wand fill is fast and powerful. The annotation and dimensions are simple.

Unfortunately the current full version is stupid expensive but have go at the 'free' older version maybe. I didn't use Archicad back then but I'm sure the 2D tools were still very intuitive - that was always their philosophy.

 

[MrCheeto]

It’s worth a shot with that kind of review. Good to hear from somebody in the trade.

I’m downloading a version from the Macintosh Repository. It’s free, although free was never the requirement: I just prefer 90’s vintage.

I understand AutoCAD went many years without any major upsets. There was a philosophy at some point that somebody that used AutoCAD in (insert era) could step right into using (insert later version), so I get what you mean about keeping to tradition. Only one way to see whether ArchiCAD version 5 lives up to the expectation you’ve given me.

 

[ThunderSkunk]

I've got a severe need to go back to some simple old-school CAD software.

I Basically I need the MS Paint of CAD made for quick dimensional drafting with keyboard shortcuts galore.

Yeah I was a autocad kid in the 80s-00s, but now I keep a VM of Autodesk Inventor 6 from 20 years ago on an XP install for just this reason. It’s ultralight & fast as lighting on modern hardware, takes up very little space, has just the essential features of the bare bones Parametric Solid Modeler without 2 decades of enormous engineering feature bloat. Once you sketch in inventor, you’ll never use autocad again, or a calculator. Forget keyboard shortcuts, the 2d drawing environment has what 4 commands and about 10 geometric constraints and accomplishes everything, and lets your geometry actively float around while you narrow in on your knowns (like dimensions and geometric relationships between objects or math formulas) & it hones in on the rest of your geometry until it’s fully defined. It’s THE tool I use for sketching, drawing, massing, figuring out problems, moment analysis, all of it. AND it’ll crank out parametric solid models you can continue working on on the desktop with the current release. No one’s made such a clean, easy drawing tool as that ever. But I’m also paperless, which is lucky bc Inventor is design software, not really drafting software.

 

[Boyd01]

I had a career in Theatrical Design/Technology from the 1970's until retiring in 2011. Worked for many years with a drafting machine, vellum and pencils. Started using MacDraw on my 512k "Fat Mac" originally, by 1993 I completely switched to using it on my Macintosh IIcx. Yes, it's not really "CAD" but allowed me to put lines on paper which was good enough.

I used a program called "MacDraft" around that time too, it looked and worked a lot like MacDraw but had more CAD capabilities. Unfortunately it was just too buggy so I didn't stick with it. Finally moved to MiniCAD in the mid 1990's which was a huge improvement. I just stuck with VectorWorks afterwards. Since I'm retired now, I can't justify the cost (~$1500) to upgrade to the current version, so I just run my old version in a MacOS Mountain Lion VM with Parallels.

OT, but here's a funny story... Shortly after MiniCAD became Vectorworks, somebody in their marketing department saw some of my photorealistic 3d scenic designs and asked if they could use them on their packaging. I had used another program for those and not VectorWorks, but he didn't care and still wanted them. Said they couldn't afford to pay me but I let them use it anyway.

A few months later I asked if they actually used my work and he said yes, the package turned out great. I asked if they could send me a copy and he said sure. Figured at least I'd get some free software. When the package arrived, all he had sent was an empty box! Served me right. 🤣

 

[MrCheeto]

I keep a VM of Autodesk Inventor 6 from 20 years ago on an XP install

Man, you got me excited to try this because it does indeed sound like we have the same need. I just can't bring myself to rely on something within Windows in any way. Using Windows is not kosher, imo. It's like riding a bicycle without a seat pad :O

Boyd always has good input about the good old days. Also a great story that we might all empathize with. I think we've all felt that kind of let-down.

So far I'm going to be downloading ArchiCAD 5.0 and MiniCAD version 7, as it appears that is the last version. Both of these should actually run on my Quadra fine. I've suddenly been thinking of all of the projects I have been meaning to get around to within a CAD program, so I can't wait to report back!

 

[Boyd01]

Have fun. Those old CAD programs were pretty buggy and slow on the old Macs, not something I would want to go back to! While limited, at least MacDraw was fast and stable. I remember, each time my friend or I got a new Mac the first thing we would do is load MiniCAD/Vectorworks and see how long it took to zoom in/out on a complex drawing. That was about the only benchmark that interested us.

Looking through old files, it appears I have .mc6 (MiniCAD 6) files going back 1997 but also have .mc7 files from 1997 and 1998. From 1993-1997, it was MacDraw all the way.

You could check out MacDraft, if you can find a copy. It came from a company called IDD originally, looks like the app still exists in some form or other. It was a good idea but the early versions were just too buggy. Maybe it improved later? Some info here:

MacDraft - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[MrCheeto]

Haven't really had my chance to have fun. Work is going off the rails. I dabbled a bit in MiniCAD and I feel I need some literature to really get a handle on it. Can't wait for updates.