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One Third of Software Pirated
- Thread starter musicpyrite
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musicpyrite said:
I was reading a back issue of Variety (I think) and it had a half column blurb about a Chinese movie called "Hero." It was the highest grossing Chinese film in China and 2nd highest grossing of any film released in China (Titanic was #1). In US dollars it did around 30 million. When released on DVD it did $300k. Ouch. The company that paid for the DVD distribution rights paid either 1 or 2 million. Ouch Ouch. Compare that to the US where it's not uncommon for DVD sales to meet, or exceed, box office revenue.
Apparently pirating is so rampent in China that few films ever get released offically on DVD because there is no profit in it.
Lethal
LethalWolfe said:
Yea, you'd be surprised to see that most, if not all, movies that are currently in theaters are on p2p networks. People go into the movie theater with a video camera and record the whole movie....
what are people coming to??.....
China should be banned!!!
It wouldn't surprise me if China produced 95% of the world's counterfeit goods.
I personally think that they shouldn't be allowed trade with any western country until...
a) they crack down on their rampant counterfeit industry, which costs both legitmate trademark holders and consumers an absolute fortune - and not to mention lost lives and serious injuries from fake Ford and GM brakes, car parts, plane parts etc etc
b) get the heck out of Tibet. They have absolutely NO right to be in Tibet and foist their style dictatorship on them
Of course neither of the above will happen anytime soon because most western countries are too corrupt and greedy to do anything about it, so instead we have the RIAA and MPAA chasing 80 year old grannies and 12 year old school kids - for possibly stealing pennies - instead of going after the real pirates and thieves who are stealing billions
And yes, this subject is a sore point with me!!!
musicpyrite said:
It wouldn't surprise me if China produced 95% of the world's counterfeit goods.
I personally think that they shouldn't be allowed trade with any western country until...
a) they crack down on their rampant counterfeit industry, which costs both legitmate trademark holders and consumers an absolute fortune - and not to mention lost lives and serious injuries from fake Ford and GM brakes, car parts, plane parts etc etc
b) get the heck out of Tibet. They have absolutely NO right to be in Tibet and foist their style dictatorship on them
Of course neither of the above will happen anytime soon because most western countries are too corrupt and greedy to do anything about it, so instead we have the RIAA and MPAA chasing 80 year old grannies and 12 year old school kids - for possibly stealing pennies - instead of going after the real pirates and thieves who are stealing billions
And yes, this subject is a sore point with me!!!
musicpyrite said:
haha, video camera....that's funny. I know 4 people with a DVD copy of Shrek 2, each got theirs from their own source.
i read a while ago that microsoft are trying to relaunch windows in the china area to try and cut down on the piracy, i don't think that anyone there cares though! they got crappy windows for free.
, i don't think that anyone there cares though! they got crappy windows for free.
What comes around goes around. Chales Dickens was wildly popular in America, but he never recieved royalties from here and had financial difficulties throughout his life because of it. It wasn't until 1891 that we started signing treaties with other countries; we didn't sign onto the 1886 Berne treaty until 1998! During most of that period, China had much bigger problems to worry about, and it only started moving away from a centralized economy, what, 20 years ago?
At present, China has the copyright laws in place but lacks collective agencies like MPAA, ASCAP, etc. Just this month, the government there invited various experts from Europe to help put together a system that will be compatible with what the rest of the world is doing; right now, the responsibility falls onto individual copyright holders with predictable results. For a country that large to make those changes is going to take time; given the tardiness of most BSA members' home country, cutting them a little slack for now doesn't seem like such an awful thing.
At present, China has the copyright laws in place but lacks collective agencies like MPAA, ASCAP, etc. Just this month, the government there invited various experts from Europe to help put together a system that will be compatible with what the rest of the world is doing; right now, the responsibility falls onto individual copyright holders with predictable results. For a country that large to make those changes is going to take time; given the tardiness of most BSA members' home country, cutting them a little slack for now doesn't seem like such an awful thing.
iMeowbot said:
There was an interesting story about similar things in the frontpages of my copy of Ulysses. Because it was deemed obscene Joyce couldn't get the copyright on it. Because the legitimate publisher didn't have a copyright they didn't print. For several years the only edition available in the US was a PD bootleg.
iMeowbot said:
Aren't copyrights antithetical to a socialist system?
musicpyrite said:
The day Spider-man 2 came out a kid (teenager) here in SoCal got busted for using a camera to tape the screen. He got busted by employees at the theater using night vision goggles (provided by the studio) to scan the audience. I here there is also a $500 reward offered by the studios for catching people taping movies.
Lethal
absolut_mac said:It wouldn't surprise me if China produced 95% of the world's counterfeit goods.
I personally think that they shouldn't be allowed trade with any western country until...
a) they crack down on their rampant counterfeit industry, which costs both legitmate trademark holders and consumers an absolute fortune - and not to mention lost lives and serious injuries from fake Ford and GM brakes, car parts, plane parts etc etc
b) get the heck out of Tibet. They have absolutely NO right to be in Tibet and foist their style dictatorship on them
Of course neither of the above will happen anytime soon because most western countries are too corrupt and greedy to do anything about it, so instead we have the RIAA and MPAA chasing 80 year old grannies and 12 year old school kids - for possibly stealing pennies - instead of going after the real pirates and thieves who are stealing billions
And yes, this subject is a sore point with me!!!
Actually the entertainment industry spends lots of money and lots of time working w/the Federal government addressing the pirating problems over seas but there is only so much you can do when dealing w/a government that doesn't seem all that bothered by the rampent pirating. The reason for the near paranoira<sp?> here "at home" is because they have more leverage to stop pirating in the US and the most effective way to keep pirating under control is never to let it become out of control in the first place. Once that pirating genie is out of the bottle there is almost no putting it back.
Lethal
LethalWolfe said:
I think I heard something about that in news.com or something. It's just stupid that someone would do something like that, and for no gain to them selfs! (even though it wrong) I can understand why he would do it for 100s of dollars, but he's doing it for free!
I surprised that M$ hasn't done anything very big in China, seeing only 8% of all Microsoft software is legal....
What are people coming to?!
DVD and software pirating vs good ol' REAL killing murdering pirates.
Vs the days when Kings went to war because they had a bad day.
When you were probably born a indentured servant, surf, or slave.
When wives were expected to be buried dead or alive, when their husband died.
When people were nailed to crosses for their beliefs.
When you defeated an enemy you owned everything, including the woman.
And now, NOW we've gotten rid of all that petty stuff and moved on to the horrors of software pirating! The world is going to H*ll in a hand basket that's for sure.
Or is it that generally life on Earth has gotten a little bit better in places? Yet most of those "petty" things are still going on in the world, and all I really have to worry about is if I'm going to get robbed for my iPod. Oh yeah, and software pirating...
Tyler
Earendil
Sorry, wasn't trying to aim my blunt sarcasm directly at the two individuals that I quoted.
I've just done some world traveling, and know a fair amount about history, and sometimes (and I'm prone to it too) we americans or [insert other wealthy country here] lose perspective on our world. For us to say that our morals are going down the drain because of software pirating just seems a little bit low and self centered when giant parts of this world are starving and dying and worrying about much larger and more important things than the morals of software pirating.
*cough* yeah I'll leave... maybe I'll even delete my posts...
Tyler
Earendil
I've just done some world traveling, and know a fair amount about history, and sometimes (and I'm prone to it too) we americans or [insert other wealthy country here] lose perspective on our world. For us to say that our morals are going down the drain because of software pirating just seems a little bit low and self centered when giant parts of this world are starving and dying and worrying about much larger and more important things than the morals of software pirating.
*cough* yeah I'll leave... maybe I'll even delete my posts...
Tyler
Earendil
Earendil said:
Damn straight.
If this was really affecting the software companies they could always stop producing software. If that happened the demand would jump and new and better software companies would form.
"Just another example of declining moral values"
This is actually just another example of how arrogantly high American's "moral" values are.'
I don't mean to attack but this is something that annoys me,
-cody
While it's true that there are bigger problems in the world, its not fair to ridicule software companies that are struggling. Dont forget, there are people trying to make a living being a software developer, and if they do a good job and make a good piece of software, it isnt really fair for you to steal it, is it? FYI: Many software companies ARE struggling, yet still produce high quality stuff, that you take for granted everyday.
Saying, "oh, they should shut down their software company to create demand so better software companies will start up," is idiotic. Yeah, that will feed their kids. Maybe when Joe the software developer comes home and has to tell his wife they have to sell their house because the company folded, he should tell her, "Well, at least we arent getting nailed to a cross."
What annoys me is that whiny little kids who are stealing movies and music and software to install on their computer their daddy bought them (being a software designer) are posting on a public forum talking about morals. Killing is wrong, hunger needs to be eradicated, and people need to stop stealing other people's hard work. Its all the same. Yeah, we live in a better age than the dark ages, but it still doesnt make it right to steal.
I dont think the US has lost perspective, we are just normal people trying to make a living doing what we're good at. Sorry we arent out joining the peace corp and making a difference like you are obviously doing.
Saying, "oh, they should shut down their software company to create demand so better software companies will start up," is idiotic. Yeah, that will feed their kids. Maybe when Joe the software developer comes home and has to tell his wife they have to sell their house because the company folded, he should tell her, "Well, at least we arent getting nailed to a cross."
What annoys me is that whiny little kids who are stealing movies and music and software to install on their computer their daddy bought them (being a software designer) are posting on a public forum talking about morals. Killing is wrong, hunger needs to be eradicated, and people need to stop stealing other people's hard work. Its all the same. Yeah, we live in a better age than the dark ages, but it still doesnt make it right to steal.
I dont think the US has lost perspective, we are just normal people trying to make a living doing what we're good at. Sorry we arent out joining the peace corp and making a difference like you are obviously doing.
musicpyrite said:
Given the current laws and government in China there is very little M$, or any company, can really do. For the most part the best they can do is catch pirated stuff when it enters the US before it gets distributed. Stopping the source of the problem, though, is up to the governments of countries where all this pirating takes place.
The gains are pretty base. They wanna "stick it to the man." They want break the rules. They want to brag to their friends that they did it and see how many people down load it. It's many of the same reasons people steal. They don't do it because they have to. They do it because they can.
The internet and P2P has given the answer to the always popular hypothetical<sp?> line of questioning, "If you'd never get caught. If no one would ever find out. What would you do?" Well. Now we know. Now we know what people do when no one is looking (or at least when they think no one is looking).
Earendil,
Keep yer posts. It is good that we keep things in perspective.
I think the talk here was on relative terms though. Although I think trust, respect, and protection of property are cornerstones for any prosporus<sp?>, civilized society. I'm not saying the world is going to hell in a hand basket because some 15yr old tried to tape Spider-Man 2 at the movie theater, but theft/piracy of IP (intellectual property) is a problem that should be addressed.
Lethal
agreenster said:
I didn't say that. I'm not sure where you got that quote. I said, "If this was really affecting the software companies they could always stop producing software. If that happened the demand would jump and new and better software companies would form."
I was saying that in this current world market for software, if you want to be a software developed you should take in to consideration the fact that pirating does exist.
You can whine about the morals all you want but fact is that the best software companies will continue to be successful even when "one third" of there software is being pirated.
It's an open market, the open software market is an incredibly difficult beast to tame.
The best software developers will find a way to make it work.
agreenster said:
I'm not sure if this is directed at me or not, I am a "kid" as I am 16. But I do not steal movies and music, I don't even have a high speed connection, I have a 56k.
"their computer their daddy bought them" I saved two years mowing lawns and raking leaves to get me Powermac G4 Quicksilver, my parents did not help me with it at all.
I am a filmmaker, a musician, and an artist who devotes my time in to creating films, music, and visual arts. All of which is available for free on my website.
On my site I have a paypal donation button and a couple days ago I reached 10,000 hits and so far not a single person has donated a single dime to my art.
But whose fault is that? Is it the fault of the 10,000 people who have come to my site? No, it's my fault, this is an open market, it's up to me to figure out how to be successful with in it.
-cody
codycartoon said:
No.
Short-living, ill-conceived, in it for a quick buck, software companies will form; and that will pretty much describe their software.
Savage Henry said:
Why is that? Is that really what the market wants? I know that I wouldn't want software like that.
-cody
I still think something's a bit wrong when copyright infringement carries such a lower penalty than actual theft. I could go into my local Apple Store, steal a copy of UT2k4, and be sentenced to... 1000 hours of community service? A $250 fine?
codycartoon said:
I was paraphrasing. I think my point still stands. Pirating doest exist, and software companies know that, but it still doesnt make it right to steal.
codycartoon said:
I guess we'll see, huh?
codycartoon said:
Open is different than "free."
I still havent heard why its right to steal? All you're arguing is that stealing happens, and people should get used to it. I'm saying that it hurts workers, so go pay 15 bucks for a DVD at Wal-Mart and quit stealing stuff.
codycartoon said:
It wasnt.
codycartoon said:
Congratulations.
So, when you're out on your own, and want to work in the film industry, will you get upset when you cant find a job, or get laid off because your studio isnt making any money? It could happen.
codycartoon said:
Correct. But the film/music industry ISNT open. Thats why you pay your 10 bucks at the box office.
I am not going to argue with you anymore agreenster, Of course it is wrong to steal, but if you are so worried about the software market and pirating, why don't you change it? Why don't you support all those poor workers who you are talking about?
You are just whining,
-cody
You are just whining,
-cody