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Open letter to Steve Jobs. Re: Mac Mini Pro

inkswamp

inkswamp

macrumors 68030
Original poster
Jan 26, 2003
2,953
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Wow! This guy absolutely friggin' nails it, calling Apple on their BS.

Open letter to Steve Jobs. Re: Mac Mini Pro

It's a few months old but I'm surprised I haven't seen this circulated on any Mac sites. I think this guy aptly sums up a lot of the frustration I see out there with Apple's limited hardware offerings. The demand for this is out there and has been growing steadily for the last couple years. I don't see why Apple refuses to acknowledge it and fill the gap.

Who knows? Maybe WWDC will bring a big surprise in this regard. I kinda doubt it, but I'd love to be proven wrong. :rolleyes:
 
WOW! he explained it very well. this is what i want for my new Mac.

i hope Steve replies to this.

i also highly doubt this will be released at WWDC even though i want it to be. just like the announcement of 10.6.
 
An interesting read but he gets off track a bit.

I have the same problem as he does, I need the expandability of the pro, the ability replace components, but I don't need the over the top features the current pro has. It is almost as if Apple looked for the highest priced features they could find and then put them all in one machine thereby isolating their market share to about nil while garnering lots of big words for marketing.
 
I agree with this guy and hopefully one of Steve's assistants will pass on this open letter to him. I can definitely empathise with the *size* of the Mac Pro. It's absolutely massive!

When you see it in photos you just assume it to be a normal sized tower but when you go into an Apple Store and see it in person, your immediate reaction is "Wow!" It takes so much space up compared to the other Macs that Apple sell, it'd be nice if they made one that was half the size, i.e. a Mac Pro Mini or, as this guy says, a Mac Mini Pro.
 
Hmmm. Sounds to me like he just needs a bigger desk. He wants a powerful machine, and would pay $1500, but refuses to spend $2800 on a Mac Pro? I appreciate that $1300 is a big chunk for a home user, but surely a self-confessed "Pro" wouldn't see this as an unrealistic amount to spend?

Perhaps if he spent less time writing long rants for his blog, and more time working for his clients, he'd have more disposable income ;)

I've got a Mac Pro and it's great. Yes, it was expensive, and it would have been nice if it had only cost £400, but it'd also be a bonus if it was the size of a shoebox. It isn't going to happen.

I do understand the argument for a "headless" Mac, but... personally, I just don't see its omission from the line-up as the appalling, OMG-I'll-never-buy-another-Mac-again travesty that some people seem to think it is. Just my 2p.
 
I don't like the tone of the article. The language is very aggressive and pointed. Not a good way to win someone over to your way of thinking. He should have let the facts speak for themselves without embellishment.
 
cgdotcom said:
Hmmm. Sounds to me like he just needs a bigger desk. He wants a powerful machine, and would pay $1500, but refuses to spend $2800 on a Mac Pro? I appreciate that $1300 is a big chunk for a home user, but surely a self-confessed "Pro" wouldn't see this as an unrealistic amount to spend?

I do understand the argument for a "headless" Mac, but... personally, I just don't see its omission from the line-up as the appalling, OMG-I'll-never-buy-another-Mac-again travesty that some people seem to think it is. Just my 2p.
Click to expand...

Well, I've tired of waiting for the Mac Midi. I'm going to try the hackintosh route. I've ordered the parts for a quad-core E6600 in a nice and quiet mid-tower, advanced logic board (with a 6-port ICH9 SATA controller, 4 ram slots, 6 USB, 1 FW, 2 eSATA, 802.11n, and optical and coaxial digital audio ports), 750 gig hard drive, DVD burner, 4 gigs of RAM and 256 mb dual-DVI 8600GT, and another copy of Leopard. All for just over US$1,000. It makes me a bit nervous, but from what I've seen on the web it's become much easier to do the install. Once it's up and running, I'm going to OC the cpu to 3 gHz. I'm sure I'll have a busy weekend...
 
Yeah, I caved in and bought the mac pro last weekend and filled it up with ram and HD and 8800GT. I figured screw it, I have the money. Still pissed about it though. WOuld have much rather had a 4 core smaller box for half the price.
 
Cave Man said:
Well, I've tired of waiting for the Mac Midi. I'm going to try the hackintosh route. I've ordered the parts for a quad-core E6600 in a nice and quiet mid-tower, advanced logic board (with a 6-port ICH9 SATA controller, 4 ram slots, 6 USB, 1 FW, 2 eSATA, 802.11n, and optical and coaxial digital audio ports), 750 gig hard drive, DVD burner, 4 gigs of RAM and 256 mb dual-DVI 8600GT, and another copy of Leopard. All for just over US$1,000. It makes me a bit nervous, but from what I've seen on the web it's become much easier to do the install. Once it's up and running, I'm going to OC the cpu to 3 gHz. I'm sure I'll have a busy weekend...
Click to expand...

Well, I'm in the same boat, and most probably a lot of other people too. I love my mini (have upgraded everything what was possible).
In the "old PPC days" we have no knowledge, what is going on in HW, but that Intel transition give us (customers) much more information about whats going on in HW, so please no fault tricks, like "Here you have a brand new Mac mini with SR chipset" a year after the chipset was introduced ...
I was more than 12 years a loyal customer, but if Apple do not "wake up" and offer something faster than nowadays minis, but something not so big like Mac pro, I quit and go the "hackintosh way", sorry Apple ...
 
Cave Man said:
Well, I've tired of waiting for the Mac Midi. I'm going to try the hackintosh route. I've ordered the parts for a quad-core E6600 in a nice and quiet mid-tower, advanced logic board (with a 6-port ICH9 SATA controller, 4 ram slots, 6 USB, 1 FW, 2 eSATA, 802.11n, and optical and coaxial digital audio ports), 750 gig hard drive, DVD burner, 4 gigs of RAM and 256 mb dual-DVI 8600GT, and another copy of Leopard. All for just over US$1,000. It makes me a bit nervous, but from what I've seen on the web it's become much easier to do the install. Once it's up and running, I'm going to OC the cpu to 3 gHz. I'm sure I'll have a busy weekend...
Click to expand...

I'd be interested to know what logic board you are ordering? Manufacturer and product name?
 
inkswamp said:
Wow! This guy absolutely friggin' nails it, calling Apple on their BS.
Click to expand...

From the "Open Letter":
If you continue to refuse to listen to your customers, your stock won’t “hang in there” and will continue to fall from the $200 a share it was, past the $122 it is now (Feb 8), and down to where it belongs in this highly competitive technological age.
Click to expand...

Yes, he nailed it.
 
Maybe he missed the quad core option on the Mac Pro, how convenient. I suppose that would damage his argument a bit.

If he doesn't like what they offer then don't support them. Whining for them to offer a product is just sad.
 
I genuinely see his point, and agree with the majority of his points. But he was so aggressive I wanted to argue with him and tell him he was wrong. I don't think he is wrong but he needs to learn how to make friends and influence people.
 
no chance for a expandable midrange mac ever........


Apple's other co-founder, Steve Jobs, didn't agree with Jef about many things, but they both felt the same way about hardware expandability: it was a bug instead of a feature. Steve was reportedly against having slots in the Apple II back in the days of yore, and felt even stronger about slots for the Mac. He decreed that the Macintosh would remain perpetually bereft of slots, enclosed in a tightly sealed case, with only the limited expandability of the two serial ports.
Click to expand...


http://folklore.org/StoryView.py?story=Diagnostic_Port.txt
 
macintosh tech said:
If he doesn't like what they offer then don't support them. Whining for them to offer a product is just sad.
Click to expand...

How is giving customer feedback sad?

Companies value market research highly, that's why they conduct so many surveys. They want to know what products / features existing and future customers will be prepared / want to buy.

Sure, the guy could've worded his response in a slightly less agressive way but on the whole his points are still valid. People complained about the lack of a "list" option when Stacks first came out in Leopard as well as its translucent menu bar. Apple realised from all the feedback that many people weren't happy and rectified the situation.

If we don't tell Apple what we want then how will they know we want it? ;)
http://www.apple.com/feedback/
 
Apple plays a strong card on the fact that alot of its customers are the type who don't mind paying that extra bit just because "it's Apple", regardless of OS X or hardware.

That needs to change.

Its possibly justified that the price was abit higher back in the hey because they were aimed at mainly the art industry, and operated at a niche market.

But with the transition from PPC to Intel chips and Apple now targeting home users as well, Macs now play nicer with the rest of the world. And if they lowered their prices just abit, people who would usually be deterred by the high prices would now see no reason why they shouldn't give Macs a try, the computer market would be saturated with a much higher percentage of Macs, and I believe to such an extent that the profits lost by lowering their prices would be offset by the increase in sales.

On top of that, I agree with the author of the letter... the Mac Pro is an overpriced behemoth. There's a huge gap of demand between the casual user (iMacs/Mac Mini) and very-high-end market (Mac Pro), and customers are forced to either save money and get a system that may be abit under powered, or spend alot on something which has way more power than they require.
 
Luzzio said:
Apple plays a strong card on the fact that alot of its customers are the type who don't mind paying that extra bit just because "it's Apple", regardless of OS X or hardware.

That needs to change.

Its possibly justified that the price was abit higher back in the hey because they were aimed at mainly the art industry, and operated at a niche market.

But with the transition from PPC to Intel chips and Apple now targeting home users as well, Macs now play nicer with the rest of the world. And if they lowered their prices just abit, people who would usually be deterred by the high prices would now see no reason why they shouldn't give Macs a try, the computer market would be saturated with a much higher percentage of Macs, and I believe to such an extent that the profits lost by lowering their prices would be offset by the increase in sales.

On top of that, I agree with the author of the letter... the Mac Pro is an overpriced behemoth. There's a huge gap of demand between the casual user (iMacs/Mac Mini) and very-high-end market (Mac Pro), and customers are forced to either save money and get a system that may be abit under powered, or spend alot on something which has way more power than they require.
Click to expand...

I think the problem with these sort of discussions is that people mix-up their points. Or say two points at the same time. Often one of the points is accurate but the others are not.

The Mac Pro is not over priced, it is very well priced for what it is. But if you want a mid range tower it is priced at a level more than you would be willing to pay. But that is because it is not a mid range tower and asking it to be a mid range tower is pointless, it just isn't.

I personally think that there should be a mid range tower. But just because there is not one, does not make the Mac Pro expensive.

I'd also like to add that I don't believe that any mac (apart from maybe the mini) is over priced if you compare it to what it actually is rather than what you want it to be eg the iMac is expensive compared to mid range tower but fairly priced when compared to other all-in-ones.
 
Luzzio said:
And if they lowered their prices just abit, people who would usually be deterred by the high prices would now see no reason why they shouldn't give Macs a try ...
Click to expand...

Do BMW and Mercedes lower their prices to increase market share? Like those luxury cars, when people see the Apple logo on your Mac they know you've spent money on it. The high price for these types of products, in itself, drives their demand as it adds a sense of exclusivity to it.

But Apple has more than just brand, it has superior design and a superior operating system. Hence, you're actually getting pretty good value for money!
 
ditzy said:
I think the problem with these sort of discussions is that people mix-up their points. Or say two points at the same time. Often one of the points is accurate but the others are not.
The Mac Pro is not over priced, it is very well priced for what it is. But if you want a mid range tower it is priced at a level more than you would be willing to pay. But that is because it is not a mid range tower and asking it to be a mid range tower is pointless, it just isn't.
I personally think that there should be a mid range tower. But just because there is not one, does not make the Mac Pro expensive.
Click to expand...

I admit I used the wrong words 'overpriced behemoth' on the Mac Pro. I meant that it's the only (slightly overkill) option available for people who need a computer with higher performance than that of the highest end iMac, but not more than what the MP has.

My bad.
 
Apparently, the writer is proud of his open letter and expects us to applaud his insights.

Unfortunately, all I see is an ill-toned, over-simplistic, self-indulgent and long-winded message from someone who must have a lot of spare time on his hands.
 
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