Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

bkmoore773

macrumors member
Original poster
Jun 14, 2022
84
166
For the last month, I have been playing with OS X Server on my Powermac G5. Original motivation came from only having space to play with one vintage computer, and I couldn't decide between setting up my G5 or one of my early intel iMacs. With Server, I can do both!!! It's really cool to see how late PPC hardware and early Intel hardware can seamlessly integrate together, and unless you knew how to check the system config, you wouldn't even know if you're on a PPC or Intel Mac. I decided to put a few of my thoughts on the Server here, and maybe encourage others to give it a try. I know there is a separate discussion forum on networking and server-related topics, but it seems more oriented to modern server solutions.

I am using 10.5 Leopard Server, as it's the latest version PPC will support, and is also fully compatible with my early Intel iMacs. When you set up Server, you'll be very underwhelmed. You are presented with a very basic install of OS X Leopard. I would recommend leaving Server plain vanilla. You will install all your apps on the clients, not the server.

I used the book "Mac OS X Server Essentials Second Edition", which covers 10.5 Leopard Server. The book is a good introduction, but it also lacks depth and as I explored Server, I found many areas where the book is lacking, and you should refer to the Apple documentation. Unfortunately, it appears Apple is no longer hosting the documentation for this version of server, but I was able to find it on the Wayback Machine (OS X Server Resources), and I posted a .zip archive of the documentation on Macintoshgarden - OS X 10.5 Server

My basic config:
  1. DNS Server using the domain: "pretendco.com" Since I'm not using the server online, I could use any domain, but Ideally it should be unique and not conflict with an existing domain. You need DNS running to direct your client computers to the appropriate service.
  2. Open Directory Master: Network User accounts are hosted on the Open Directory Master. These are the accounts you will use to access services from a client machine.
  3. AFP: Automount User home directories, and any other directories you want auto mounted when a user logs in, i.e. a group directory for shared files.
  4. NetBoot: NFS Share of bootable disk images for client computers. With Netboot, it is possible to netboot any compatible client machine. Great for using a client computer on the server if you don't want to erase the HD and install 10.5 Leopard. Netboot can also host OS X Install images, making it easy to do a fresh install on a vintage Mac, especially if the CD-ROM drive is broken.
  5. My G5 is running headless, and all server configuration occurs via the Server.app running on a client computer.
  6. Once I got that configuration working, I was able to get Mail, iChat, iCal, Web services all working internally on my home network.

Things I want to try out:
  1. Get a local network Certificate Auth Server running, so my OS X Server issues valid certificates. Then I would be able to connect to services such as mail with a modern Mac. My modern Mac complains the trusted certificate is not valid, and won't let me add the service.
  2. Get the Podcast Capture tool to work, and make a podcast with one click.
  3. Have my Server run a vintage Mac sub-net on the 2nd Ethernet port on my Powermac G5, and bridge the vintage network with my home router network.
  4. VPN Network - connect to my vintage Mac via VPN from an outside net. Maybe use a modern VPN solution to connect into my server.
  5. Get a vintage MacBook Pro from about 2008-2009 to have a laptop I can use with the server, and use mobile accounts.

Some lessons learned (so far):
  1. I was not able to login network accounts from later versions of OS X. I originally tried to log in to my server from a client running 10.6 Snow Leopard. It seems that Server only supports clients at or below its version number... i.e. a 10.4 client should be able to log into a 10.5 Server, although I haven't tried this. It would be interesting to see how low you could go with the client.
  2. Mobile Accounts allow you to synchronize your home directory with the Server and login to your user account when off the network. I haven't found good rules for synchronizing home directories, and it re-syncs all files every time, not just new files. This was annoying, so I turned off Mobile Directories for now. I think in an enterprise environment, you would only sync configuration files, and work-related files, so that would save a lot of time by not including user data such as music/ photos/ movies/ etc.
  3. Kerberos Server is running correctly, but not all apps are "Kerberized". Open Directory and AFP work with Kerberos, but other services do not. I need to dig into the Apple documentation to figure this out. Advantage of Kerberos is you would only need to authenticate once on login for all servers.
  4. Netbooting- clients. When you make changes to the Netboot image from a client, they're not written to the image itself. They're written to a separate "shadow" file. I made configuration changes to my netboot image on one client computer. When I booted the same image from another client, the changes were not there. This leads me to believe you will not run out of space on a Netboot image if you add software, as the changes are written to a "shadow" file, but with the caveat that that software would only be accessible from the client computer on which you installed it... Maybe there's a way to synchronize shadows to the original netboot image, or change the default behavior?
  5. Netbooting on 10.5 seems to support OS 9 Clients. That would be interesting to try, if I had a computer capable of natively booting OS 9.
  6. To make a netboot image, you need to first install Leopard (or earlier) on a client computer. Configure it the way you want. Then use Target Disk Mode to mount the HDD and make a Netboot image. I have not found any online pre-made netboot images. But then again, most server installs are unique, so it makes sense to roll your own netboot images.
  7. Time Machine will not show backups of User data for online accounts or other online mount points. This was surprising. I have both my Server and Client computers backed up to a Time Machine partition. But it appears that when you access Time Machine from a Client computer, you only have access to the files installed locally on the Client. I guess you'd have to ask the Server Admin to recover a user file. If you used Mobile Accounts this wouldn't be a problem.
  8. Spotlight works across all mounted directories, unlike Time Machine. That is very cool.
  9. Network settings can be a bit flakey, especially if you move between wired and wireless networking. I made separate Location Settings on my client machines under Network Preferences.
  10. Alternating between local Hard Disk and Network boot on the same machine can be flakey. I recommend sticking to one or the other on a client computer.
  11. I wish there were a way to combine mounted directories, like you can do on Plan9. i.e. an /Applications directory on a Client and a shared /Applications directory on the server. But I have not found a way to do this.
I'm sure there are more lessons that I have forgotten to list here. Overall, I am very happy with 10.5 Server. It is reliable, easy to use, and fun to use. It was really cool seeing "dead" apps such as iChat, Mail, etc. come to life and work as originally intended. When everything is setup and running the way it's supposed to be running, it's hard to tell Server is even there. The experience is very similar to a modern Mac on iCloud. I am not a professional, so there are probably things I am doing wrong. This is a hobby for me and a learning exercise. Hopefully others might find it useful.
 
For the last month, I have been playing with OS X Server on my Powermac G5. Original motivation came from only having space to play with one vintage computer, and I couldn't decide between setting up my G5 or one of my early intel iMacs. With Server, I can do both!!! It's really cool to see how late PPC hardware and early Intel hardware can seamlessly integrate together, and unless you knew how to check the system config, you wouldn't even know if you're on a PPC or Intel Mac. I decided to put a few of my thoughts on the Server here, and maybe encourage others to give it a try. I know there is a separate discussion forum on networking and server-related topics, but it seems more oriented to modern server solutions.

I am using 10.5 Leopard Server, as it's the latest version PPC will support, and is also fully compatible with my early Intel iMacs. When you set up Server, you'll be very underwhelmed. You are presented with a very basic install of OS X Leopard. I would recommend leaving Server plain vanilla. You will install all your apps on the clients, not the server.

I used the book "Mac OS X Server Essentials Second Edition", which covers 10.5 Leopard Server. The book is a good introduction, but it also lacks depth and as I explored Server, I found many areas where the book is lacking, and you should refer to the Apple documentation. Unfortunately, it appears Apple is no longer hosting the documentation for this version of server, but I was able to find it on the Wayback Machine (OS X Server Resources), and I posted a .zip archive of the documentation on Macintoshgarden - OS X 10.5 Server

My basic config:
  1. DNS Server using the domain: "pretendco.com" Since I'm not using the server online, I could use any domain, but Ideally it should be unique and not conflict with an existing domain. You need DNS running to direct your client computers to the appropriate service.
  2. Open Directory Master: Network User accounts are hosted on the Open Directory Master. These are the accounts you will use to access services from a client machine.
  3. AFP: Automount User home directories, and any other directories you want auto mounted when a user logs in, i.e. a group directory for shared files.
  4. NetBoot: NFS Share of bootable disk images for client computers. With Netboot, it is possible to netboot any compatible client machine. Great for using a client computer on the server if you don't want to erase the HD and install 10.5 Leopard. Netboot can also host OS X Install images, making it easy to do a fresh install on a vintage Mac, especially if the CD-ROM drive is broken.
  5. My G5 is running headless, and all server configuration occurs via the Server.app running on a client computer.
  6. Once I got that configuration working, I was able to get Mail, iChat, iCal, Web services all working internally on my home network.

Things I want to try out:
  1. Get a local network Certificate Auth Server running, so my OS X Server issues valid certificates. Then I would be able to connect to services such as mail with a modern Mac. My modern Mac complains the trusted certificate is not valid, and won't let me add the service.
  2. Get the Podcast Capture tool to work, and make a podcast with one click.
  3. Have my Server run a vintage Mac sub-net on the 2nd Ethernet port on my Powermac G5, and bridge the vintage network with my home router network.
  4. VPN Network - connect to my vintage Mac via VPN from an outside net. Maybe use a modern VPN solution to connect into my server.
  5. Get a vintage MacBook Pro from about 2008-2009 to have a laptop I can use with the server, and use mobile accounts.

Some lessons learned (so far):
  1. I was not able to login network accounts from later versions of OS X. I originally tried to log in to my server from a client running 10.6 Snow Leopard. It seems that Server only supports clients at or below its version number... i.e. a 10.4 client should be able to log into a 10.5 Server, although I haven't tried this. It would be interesting to see how low you could go with the client.
  2. Mobile Accounts allow you to synchronize your home directory with the Server and login to your user account when off the network. I haven't found good rules for synchronizing home directories, and it re-syncs all files every time, not just new files. This was annoying, so I turned off Mobile Directories for now. I think in an enterprise environment, you would only sync configuration files, and work-related files, so that would save a lot of time by not including user data such as music/ photos/ movies/ etc.
  3. Kerberos Server is running correctly, but not all apps are "Kerberized". Open Directory and AFP work with Kerberos, but other services do not. I need to dig into the Apple documentation to figure this out. Advantage of Kerberos is you would only need to authenticate once on login for all servers.
  4. Netbooting- clients. When you make changes to the Netboot image from a client, they're not written to the image itself. They're written to a separate "shadow" file. I made configuration changes to my netboot image on one client computer. When I booted the same image from another client, the changes were not there. This leads me to believe you will not run out of space on a Netboot image if you add software, as the changes are written to a "shadow" file, but with the caveat that that software would only be accessible from the client computer on which you installed it... Maybe there's a way to synchronize shadows to the original netboot image, or change the default behavior?
  5. Netbooting on 10.5 seems to support OS 9 Clients. That would be interesting to try, if I had a computer capable of natively booting OS 9.
  6. To make a netboot image, you need to first install Leopard (or earlier) on a client computer. Configure it the way you want. Then use Target Disk Mode to mount the HDD and make a Netboot image. I have not found any online pre-made netboot images. But then again, most server installs are unique, so it makes sense to roll your own netboot images.
  7. Time Machine will not show backups of User data for online accounts or other online mount points. This was surprising. I have both my Server and Client computers backed up to a Time Machine partition. But it appears that when you access Time Machine from a Client computer, you only have access to the files installed locally on the Client. I guess you'd have to ask the Server Admin to recover a user file. If you used Mobile Accounts this wouldn't be a problem.
  8. Spotlight works across all mounted directories, unlike Time Machine. That is very cool.
  9. Network settings can be a bit flakey, especially if you move between wired and wireless networking. I made separate Location Settings on my client machines under Network Preferences.
  10. Alternating between local Hard Disk and Network boot on the same machine can be flakey. I recommend sticking to one or the other on a client computer.
  11. I wish there were a way to combine mounted directories, like you can do on Plan9. i.e. an /Applications directory on a Client and a shared /Applications directory on the server. But I have not found a way to do this.
I'm sure there are more lessons that I have forgotten to list here. Overall, I am very happy with 10.5 Server. It is reliable, easy to use, and fun to use. It was really cool seeing "dead" apps such as iChat, Mail, etc. come to life and work as originally intended. When everything is setup and running the way it's supposed to be running, it's hard to tell Server is even there. The experience is very similar to a modern Mac on iCloud. I am not a professional, so there are probably things I am doing wrong. This is a hobby for me and a learning exercise. Hopefully others might find it useful.
Thank you for archiving the documentation on macintoshgarden. I have a couple pmG5s and the one I currently have Lubuntu on, I think I will install server along side and go from there. I have many early Intel Macs from 2006-2009 so are great candidates for a project like this. Looks like great fun to me. :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: bkmoore773
I have one G3 clamshell.. without HDD, you gave me an idea about using my G5 as a NetBoot server…
Stunning project!!
 
For the last month, I have been playing with OS X Server on my Powermac G5. Original motivation came from only having space to play with one vintage computer, and I couldn't decide between setting up my G5 or one of my early intel iMacs. With Server, I can do both!!! It's really cool to see how late PPC hardware and early Intel hardware can seamlessly integrate together, and unless you knew how to check the system config, you wouldn't even know if you're on a PPC or Intel Mac. I decided to put a few of my thoughts on the Server here, and maybe encourage others to give it a try. I know there is a separate discussion forum on networking and server-related topics, but it seems more oriented to modern server solutions.

I am using 10.5 Leopard Server, as it's the latest version PPC will support, and is also fully compatible with my early Intel iMacs. When you set up Server, you'll be very underwhelmed. You are presented with a very basic install of OS X Leopard. I would recommend leaving Server plain vanilla. You will install all your apps on the clients, not the server.

I used the book "Mac OS X Server Essentials Second Edition", which covers 10.5 Leopard Server. The book is a good introduction, but it also lacks depth and as I explored Server, I found many areas where the book is lacking, and you should refer to the Apple documentation. Unfortunately, it appears Apple is no longer hosting the documentation for this version of server, but I was able to find it on the Wayback Machine (OS X Server Resources), and I posted a .zip archive of the documentation on Macintoshgarden - OS X 10.5 Server

My basic config:
  1. DNS Server using the domain: "pretendco.com" Since I'm not using the server online, I could use any domain, but Ideally it should be unique and not conflict with an existing domain. You need DNS running to direct your client computers to the appropriate service.
  2. Open Directory Master: Network User accounts are hosted on the Open Directory Master. These are the accounts you will use to access services from a client machine.
  3. AFP: Automount User home directories, and any other directories you want auto mounted when a user logs in, i.e. a group directory for shared files.
  4. NetBoot: NFS Share of bootable disk images for client computers. With Netboot, it is possible to netboot any compatible client machine. Great for using a client computer on the server if you don't want to erase the HD and install 10.5 Leopard. Netboot can also host OS X Install images, making it easy to do a fresh install on a vintage Mac, especially if the CD-ROM drive is broken.
  5. My G5 is running headless, and all server configuration occurs via the Server.app running on a client computer.
  6. Once I got that configuration working, I was able to get Mail, iChat, iCal, Web services all working internally on my home network.

Things I want to try out:
  1. Get a local network Certificate Auth Server running, so my OS X Server issues valid certificates. Then I would be able to connect to services such as mail with a modern Mac. My modern Mac complains the trusted certificate is not valid, and won't let me add the service.
  2. Get the Podcast Capture tool to work, and make a podcast with one click.
  3. Have my Server run a vintage Mac sub-net on the 2nd Ethernet port on my Powermac G5, and bridge the vintage network with my home router network.
  4. VPN Network - connect to my vintage Mac via VPN from an outside net. Maybe use a modern VPN solution to connect into my server.
  5. Get a vintage MacBook Pro from about 2008-2009 to have a laptop I can use with the server, and use mobile accounts.

Some lessons learned (so far):
  1. I was not able to login network accounts from later versions of OS X. I originally tried to log in to my server from a client running 10.6 Snow Leopard. It seems that Server only supports clients at or below its version number... i.e. a 10.4 client should be able to log into a 10.5 Server, although I haven't tried this. It would be interesting to see how low you could go with the client.
  2. Mobile Accounts allow you to synchronize your home directory with the Server and login to your user account when off the network. I haven't found good rules for synchronizing home directories, and it re-syncs all files every time, not just new files. This was annoying, so I turned off Mobile Directories for now. I think in an enterprise environment, you would only sync configuration files, and work-related files, so that would save a lot of time by not including user data such as music/ photos/ movies/ etc.
  3. Kerberos Server is running correctly, but not all apps are "Kerberized". Open Directory and AFP work with Kerberos, but other services do not. I need to dig into the Apple documentation to figure this out. Advantage of Kerberos is you would only need to authenticate once on login for all servers.
  4. Netbooting- clients. When you make changes to the Netboot image from a client, they're not written to the image itself. They're written to a separate "shadow" file. I made configuration changes to my netboot image on one client computer. When I booted the same image from another client, the changes were not there. This leads me to believe you will not run out of space on a Netboot image if you add software, as the changes are written to a "shadow" file, but with the caveat that that software would only be accessible from the client computer on which you installed it... Maybe there's a way to synchronize shadows to the original netboot image, or change the default behavior?
  5. Netbooting on 10.5 seems to support OS 9 Clients. That would be interesting to try, if I had a computer capable of natively booting OS 9.
  6. To make a netboot image, you need to first install Leopard (or earlier) on a client computer. Configure it the way you want. Then use Target Disk Mode to mount the HDD and make a Netboot image. I have not found any online pre-made netboot images. But then again, most server installs are unique, so it makes sense to roll your own netboot images.
  7. Time Machine will not show backups of User data for online accounts or other online mount points. This was surprising. I have both my Server and Client computers backed up to a Time Machine partition. But it appears that when you access Time Machine from a Client computer, you only have access to the files installed locally on the Client. I guess you'd have to ask the Server Admin to recover a user file. If you used Mobile Accounts this wouldn't be a problem.
  8. Spotlight works across all mounted directories, unlike Time Machine. That is very cool.
  9. Network settings can be a bit flakey, especially if you move between wired and wireless networking. I made separate Location Settings on my client machines under Network Preferences.
  10. Alternating between local Hard Disk and Network boot on the same machine can be flakey. I recommend sticking to one or the other on a client computer.
  11. I wish there were a way to combine mounted directories, like you can do on Plan9. i.e. an /Applications directory on a Client and a shared /Applications directory on the server. But I have not found a way to do this.
I'm sure there are more lessons that I have forgotten to list here. Overall, I am very happy with 10.5 Server. It is reliable, easy to use, and fun to use. It was really cool seeing "dead" apps such as iChat, Mail, etc. come to life and work as originally intended. When everything is setup and running the way it's supposed to be running, it's hard to tell Server is even there. The experience is very similar to a modern Mac on iCloud. I am not a professional, so there are probably things I am doing wrong. This is a hobby for me and a learning exercise. Hopefully others might find it useful.

Not sure if this is of interest, but there is an open-source music server app: https://ports.macports.org/port/lms
 
I use an early 2009 Mac Mini with Snow Leopard Server, as a Netboot and time machine target for my PPC Macs. It currently hosts Panther, Tiger, and Leopard both installers and bootable full installations that PPC Macs can boot into.
I haven't gotten Jaguar or below working properly yet. Nonetheless, it is pretty great.

A good idea. I have one MacMini like that sitting mostly idle.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Project Alice
Nice writeup on what you have done and learned! It's hard to find good documentation of this stuff nowadays.

I have used Mac OS X Server on a few machines, and in the past I had a G4 iMac running 10.4, and then later a G4 Mac Mini running 10.5, and now a 2006 Mac Mini running 10.6 Server. I really like the flexibility it offers for these old Macs, like you said - it's how they were intended to be used. Having Time Machine wirelessly, iChat, web-hosting, video streaming, and file sharing available for these older computers is super fun and handy.

It is possible to host newer and older NetBoot images (at least NetRestores and NetInstalls, I'm not 100% sure on NetBoot itself) on a Mac OS X Server. I've set up 10.4 through 10.11 NetRestores on my 10.6 Server. The only caveat is that you have to use another Mac that is running the same version of Mac OS X to make the image initially, then you can just copy it to the Server. I tried 10.13 a while ago, and it worked, technically, but a lot of Macs I tested it with needed the firmware update when installing, so it essentially failed most times, so I stopped trying it after that and opted for USB installers for 10.13 and above.

I've found some guides on how to get OS 9 to NetBoot, but they seem to suggest you can't do it at all on a Mac that runs 10.6 Server. I haven't been able to get it to work on mine. Do you know if that's true?

Do you have any suggestions on using the same wifi network from my AirPort for all of my computers including the old ones, and the AirPort getting the DNS from the ISP gateway I have instead? I have to manually add in the DNS IP and name to the old Macs I want to bind to the server before it will let me see it. It would be nice to have that work automatically.
 
Nice writeup on what you have done and learned! It's hard to find good documentation of this stuff nowadays.
…….
Do you have any suggestions on using the same wifi network from my AirPort for all of my computers including the old ones, and the AirPort getting the DNS from the ISP gateway I have instead? I have to manually add in the DNS IP and name to the old Macs I want to bind to the server before it will let me see it. It would be nice to have that work automatically.
Thanks for the nice comment.❤️

To automate this, you would have to set up the server as a network bridge and enable DHCP on the subnet. I tried this on my server with Ethernet 0 connected to my home router, and Ethernet 1 connected to the WAN port on my server’s dedicated Airport hub. Clients could connect with the server on the subnet, but I was not able to get the server to forward IP traffic outside of the subnet. I will have to dig into the documentation to figure out what I am doing wrong, but I have not had much time to do so.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Slix
I've found some guides on how to get OS 9 to NetBoot, but they seem to suggest you can't do it at all on a Mac that runs 10.6 Server. I haven't been able to get it to work on mine. Do you know if that's true?
I haven't been able to get it working on mine, either. I haven't personally read anything about Mac OS 9 and 10.6 Server specifically, just Mac OS 9 netboot in general. Most of the guides I read on it were referencing 10.4 Server or older. I assumed it was just because nobody thought about running 9.2 by the time SL was out lol. I would still like to figure it out evetnually.

I thought I had 10.2 working, but it KP's on anything I try booting it on. Not sure whats up with that. I will be re-making the images eventually but I haven't got around to it yet.
10.3 - 10.6 work, though. I haven't bothered with versions newer than that.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Slix
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.