PC programmers in Apple?

[spanading]

Hi all

Is it just me or have others noticed that as Apple has expanded it has lost a little ground on software quality? I don't mean the debate over whether you liked the old school iMove or the new simpler look, but the general functionality. For instance I have been using papers on my mac and iPad for a while and loved it. Recently however, I have found that papers has become a little unresponsive at times and starting to do the same kinds of wierd unexpected things (such as not scrolling to the top of menus so that the top option, which was the one I wanted, was not able to be selected) that I would expect on windows. My biggest bug bare with windows is that it will pretend it can do something only to bodge it when it gets close to the memory limit.

I don't remember Mac doing that until quite recently, they used to either do it or refuse. This was frustrating too but at least you knew where you stood. If this is the standard Ex PC programmers are dragging apple down to maybe it is time they were purged from the system (just like Papermaster was). I know its controvertial but they are in Apple now and there is a definite Apple way of doing things that they should be forced to adapt to, before Apple stops being known for quality and becomes just another computer manufacturer.

Spencer

 

[Hallivand]

I'd say it's just the general shift in focus from the traditional heavyweight OS X to iOS, focusing on that.

 

[foidulus]

Combination of management style and secrecy more than anything else. Steve's style has always been to try to keep fewer, but on the whole, more talented people on staff rather than expanding for new projects. This works, to a degree, but Apple just has too many fires going right now to do adequate QA with the staff numbers they have. Hopefully the bigger Cupertino campus will allow Apple to maintain it's corporate culture while increasing their staff size.

The other big issue is secrecy, in order to keep their products secret they severely limit the number of people who have access to their products. This obviously limits the number of QA staff they employ, and occasionally it bites them in the ass(see iPhone 4 antenna)

 

[StandardPerson]

Re: PC (bad?) programmers in Apple?

Hi all

Is it just me or have others noticed that as Apple has expanded it has lost a little ground on software quality? ... For instance I have been using papers on my mac and iPad for a while and loved it. Recently however, I have found that papers has become a little unresponsive at times and starting to do the same kinds of wierd unexpected things.
Spencer

Papers is not a good example, because it is not written by Apple: it's written by Mekentosj.com. In 2004, the first version of Papers (justifiably, IMO) received an Apple design award, but that doesn't mean that Apple has any connection with Mekentosj.

As someone who has been using Papers for 3-4 years, I agree that Papers2 on OS X and iOS has had a bumpy and buggy start. Mekentosj would probably also agree, since they've released two point updates (2.0.1 and 2.0.2) for OS X in the month or so since Papers2 was released; but that has nothing to do with Apple.

Perhaps quality has suffered in some third-party (i.e. non-Apple) applications, but I suspect the reasons for this are quite simple:

1. Apple have been expanding and upgrading their operating systems at a tremendous rate (the iPod OS, Leopard, Snow Leopard, iOS 3, iOS 4).
2. These change make it hard for even the most seasoned Apple programmer to keep pace.
3. Furthermore, the huge popularity of the iPhone and iPad (and iOS generally) have brought a lot of programmers with no previous OS X or iOS experience to the platform; learning the Apple Platform (Objective C, Cocoa, Quartz, etc.) is a large undertaking that's made doubly hard in these times of rapid change.

Unfortunately, I cannot see the dust settling until the smart phone & tablet wars end, and the market split between iOS (i.e. the iPhone and iPad), Windows Phone 7 and Android phones and tablets stabilizes. When that happens, hopefully third-party programmers will understand iOS and OS X better and there won't be such a frantic need for Apple and other companies to change and extend their platforms.

In short, when the market settles, there will be more time for quality and less need to frantically write code just to stay alive in the market.

In truth, I think OS X has been well-served by the comparative lack of attention that it has received. Snow Leopard was meant to improve the quality of the previous, frantic OS X releases and it is a big improvement (and had 100+ new features as well). With Lion, I hope we'll see crucial security features, like full address space randomization, rather than Snow Leopard's partial implementation.

 

[KnightWRX]

I don't get the title of the thread. Are you saying that somehow, these newfound "bugs" in Mac titles are because it is "PC programmers" that are now making Mac Software ?

That is a very insulting premise to take. First, what is a "PC programmer" ? A guy who writes code on an IBM PC compatible platform ? What does that then have to do with your Windows comment ? Do you mean Windows developers ?

The fact is, as software evolves, it becomes more complex and as it complexifies, it will have more bugs until you take the time to correct them. A lot of shops have to balance bug fixing and new feature implementations. Let's face it, your customers always want "new version!" but there's only so many hours in the day to fix "current version" while making "new version!".

 

[Stella]

A good majority of Apple developers are PC programmers... iMacs, Mac Pro, MacBooks are all PCs.

I assume by "PC" you mean "Windows"... right?

Are you trying to say that somehow that developers who develop soley for OSX are somehow superior to 'windows' developers? If you are, then please you need to rethink this idea.

There are good "Windows" developers and there are crap.. which is no different to OSX / iOS developers.. and you know - quite a lot develop for *all* platforms while maybe using a variety of languages as appropriate.

 

[secondhandloser]

It's just the nature of the beast, especially as OSX receives updates. Third party programs can't always keep up with the changes, and won't always play nice.