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Average Pro

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Jul 16, 2013
473
194
Cali
In preparation for the acquisition of a MacPro (7,1) I've identified the Promise Pegasus (HDD with 32 or 48TB capacity) as an external peripheral. This will primarily function as a back up. During my research, I continually came across the terms PCI Controller Cards and PCIe. I understand what they do, but I'm trying to figure out if one of these cards exists to increase the transfer rates between the computer and an HDD enclosure. All search results lead to examples of SSDs. So, with little knowledge, here are my questions and parameters:
(1) Is there a PCI/PCIe card for an external HDD enclosure?
(2) If yes, is there any advantage to installing one for the express purpose of connecting an external HDD enclosure?
(3) If yes, what performance increase can one expect?
(4) All peripherals (HDD enclosure) will be connected via TB3 to a 2019 Mac Pro.
(5) Are the following terms the same: PCIe, high-speed PCI Controller Card

As you can see from my questions, I have a lot to learn. Feel free to direct me to any articles and/or videos.
Thank you for your time.
 

joevt

Contributor
Jun 21, 2012
6,880
4,175
Thunderbolt is limited to about 2750 MB/s.

If you only need this for backup then that's more than enough. Even for non-backup that's plenty for most people.

PCIe is how devices are connected inside the Mac Pro (GPU, Thunderbolt, NVMe drives, SATA and USB controllers, etc.). The PCIe slots allow adding PCIe devices. External PCIe devices can be connected to a PCIe host card that inserts into a PCIe slot. The external PCIe enclosure has a PCIe target card. Between the host and the target is one or more external PCIe cables.

The Mac Pro has PCIe 3.0 slots that range from 4 lanes (~3500 MB/s) to 16 lanes (~13000 MB/s). PCIe host cards also range between x4 and x16. Here's an example of an external PCIe enclosure with a PCIe 3.0 x16 upstream link and four PCIE 3.0 x8 slots (made for GPUs but you can put any PCIe devices inside):

Here's some other devices (some are made for external storage, some are made for GPUs, some are made for other PCIe devices):

Read about this stuff in wikipedia.org (PCIe, NVMe, SATA, USB, Thunderbolt,... )
Visit the websites of the different manufacturers to see more example products (One Stop Systems, Netstor, Magma, Cubix, etc.)

External PCIe enclosures with multiple slots have a PCIe switch. A PCIe switch has an upstream connection (example: PCIe 3.0 x16) and one or more downstream connections (example: four PCIe 3.0 x8 slots). A switch not only allows adding more slots, it also converts between different PCIe link rates and widths (lanes). For example, An NVMe device is normally PCIe 3.0 x4. If I put one of those in a MacPro3,1 PCIe 2.0 x16 slot, then it can only connect at PCIe 2.0 link rate (halves the max performance). A PCIe 3.0 switch between the PCIe 2.0 slot and the PCIe 3.0 NVMe device can transmit data between the fast and narrow link of the NVMe device and the slow and wide link of the PCIe slot with very little loss in performance. There exists PCIe 4.0 back planes. I suppose you could add PCIe 4.0 slots to the MacPro7,1 or MAcPro3,1 using one of those. PCIe switches are expensive (depends on link rate and number of lanes).

Multiple NVMe devices can be connected to a PCIe slot using a card that has a PCIe switch (see products from Highpoint, Amfeltec, Sonnet, OWC...)
This one can connect 6 NVMe devices: https://www.amfeltec.com/pci-express-gen-3-carrier-board-for-6-m2-or-ngsff-nf1-pcie-ssd-modules/
I think this one can connect 8 NVMe devices and uses PCIe 4.0 so newer PCIe 4.0 NVMe devices can be used at full speed (~5000 MB/s each): https://www.liqid.com/products/composable-storage/element-lqd4500-pcie-aic-ssd

A MacPro7,1 has four x16 links to the CPU (slot 1, slot 3, and two of the other x16 slots divided between Pool A and Pool B) so maybe you could get 40000 MB/s (you would need a normal GPU in a fifth slot). Such an arrangement would be ridiculous though.
 
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Average Pro

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Jul 16, 2013
473
194
Cali
OK, I spoke to B&H and, in combination with the information above, this is the answer I received.

The Promise Technology Pegasus32 has a built in controller card. Therefore you do not need to install anything in the MacPro. As such there is not controller card for the MacPro which will increase the transfer speed between the Pegasus32 (containing HDDs) and the MacPro. The thunderbolt3 is all I need. **Please note that I understand how different RAID could change transfer rates.**
 
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joevt

Contributor
Jun 21, 2012
6,880
4,175
OK, I spoke to B&H and, in combination with the information above, this is the answer I received.

The Promise Technology Pegasus32 has a built in controller card. Therefore you do not need to install anything in the MacPro. As such there is not controller card for the MacPro which will increase the transfer speed between the Pegasus32 (containing HDDs) and the MacPro. The thunderbolt3 is all I need. **Please note that I understand how different RAID could change transfer rates.**
You shouldn't have any problem with the Pegasus32. I can't find any performance information though or what PCIe RAID controller it uses (can it saturate Thunderbolt 3's 2750 MB/s if you connected SSDs instead of HDs?)
 

Average Pro

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Jul 16, 2013
473
194
Cali
I changed my mind and went for the QNAP (TVS-872XT). I’m going to set it up as a RAID 5 (6 HDDs) and leaning towards the WD Red Pro drives. I can’t find a significant or minor performance improvement with the WD Gold/Ultrastar. Any input or recommendations are welcome.

You shouldn't have any problem with the Pegasus32. I can't find any performance information though or what PCIe RAID controller it uses (can it saturate Thunderbolt 3's 2750 MB/s if you connected SSDs instead of HDs?)
 

tsialex

Contributor
Jun 13, 2016
13,370
13,534
I changed my mind and went for the QNAP (TVS-872XT). I’m going to set it up as a RAID 5 (6 HDDs) and leaning towards the WD Red Pro drives. I can’t find a significant or minor performance improvement with the WD Gold/Ultrastar. Any input or recommendations are welcome.
All WD Red Pro are CMR, but if you go for normal WD Red pay attention on CMR vs SMR drives, never buy SMR/DMSMR for arrays.


wd-red-family
 
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