Permissions problem after changed/cloned user folder HD

[Beliblis]

Hi,

My MacMini's userfolder is on an external SSD, MacOS (Mojave) is on the internal drive. For black friday, I bought a larger SSD to replace my existing user folder SSD. I cloned the entire drive with Carbon Copy Cloner. Then restarted into recovery mode, to rename the new SSD to the same name as the old one.

Boot process is always OK of course (MacOS on internal drive). But when I want to log into my user account, there's a 50/50 chance of failure. I tried recovery mode / "forgot password" to reset user password via my Apple-ID, repair permissions, etc... the problem stays the same.

After succesful login to my user account: my user folder is fine & shows the usual "house" icon. But most of the folders inside are restricted: Desktop, Documents, Downloads, etc.

And what's REALLY weird: some of the restrictions come and go:

• I can see an access all the files on my Desktop, but can't open the actual "Desktop" folder.
• I can access the "Downloads" folder via its dock icon, at least for a few seconds... then I get thrown out of the Downloads folder again
• same for other folders: if I drag & drop a restricted folder (Music etc) into the dock (see screenshot attached), I can briefly open that folder via the dock for a few seconds. Then the restriction kicks in again

I've attached a few screenshots, all done within a few minutes in the same login session.

Can anyone help? What's the best way to fix this (also in terms of file safety)?
I still have my old SSD, so could try another route than CCC.
Is it possible to "import" an entire user to my existing MacOS install? (Same as when setting up a new Mac)?

Many thanks for your help with this!

 

[Fishrrman]

Try this (no promises, but I'll bet it works).

1. DISCONNECT ALL external drives
2. Boot (or re-boot) the Mini, log in, get to the finder
3. NOW connect the external drive, let its icon show up on the desktop
4. Click on the external drive icon ONE TIME to select it
5. Bring up the get info box for it (command-i)
6. At the bottom of get info, click the lock and enter your password
7. Put a checkmark into "ignore ownership on this volume" (sharing and permissions)
8. Close get info.

Now try accessing the drive.
Any better?

 

[KeesMacPro]

My MacMini's userfolder is on an external SSD, MacOS (Mojave) is on the internal drive. For black friday, I bought a larger SSD to replace my existing user folder SSD. I cloned the entire drive with Carbon Copy Cloner. Then restarted into recovery mode, to rename the new SSD to the same name as the old one.

Boot process is always OK of course (MacOS on internal drive). But when I want to log into my user account, there's a 50/50 chance of failure.

Short version:
The problem is that, although you made a perfect clone of your Home folder, the OS does not see it as 100% identical...

The most efficient and fastest way to solve this is by:
- create another account with admin privileges (lets call it "admin")
- log in to admin
- go to preferences> user accounts unlock it and control-click on your (external) account.
- you should see "advanced options" : open it
- set the actual direction for your Home folder as it is now with the new SSD connected.
- safe and restart

- log in to your main account
All should be working now as it's supposed to be.

The idea: if you have a user account on another (external) drive than the OS, it's good practice to keep a 2nd user account ("admin") on the OS drive as a safety net in case something breaks.

 

[KeesMacPro]

1. DISCONNECT ALL external drives
2. Boot (or re-boot) the Mini, log in, get to the finder

How on earth will you log in to an account that is not even there?

 

[Fishrrman]

"How on earth will you log in to an account that is not even there?"

OP wrote in initial post:
"Boot process is always OK of course (MacOS on internal drive)."

So... I assume that the internal drive is bootable, and has an administrative account on it.
If that is so, then the OP can boot to the recovery partition, use the Startup Security utility to DISABLE startup security, and go on from there...

OP:
Are you able to disconnect ALL external drives, and still boot to the finder using the internal drive?

 

[Beliblis]

OP:
Are you able to disconnect ALL external drives, and still boot to the finder using the internal drive?

Sorry for the delayed reply (super busy with family matters over the last week) – and thank you all so much for your answers.
@Fishrrman Yes, the internal drive has MacOS and and Admin account.
@KeesMacPro The procedure you described is exactly how I've done it, but it didn't work with the CCC copied drive.

In the end, I started from scratch:
- reformat/wipe the new SSD again
- copy old user folder over (this time without CCC, just a simple drag & drop in the finder)
- restart & log on as admin (internal drive)
- Accounts > Advanced Options > point user folder to the external SSD

This time it worked. The permissions problems are 100% solved. but I now have other problems:
That shiny new 2tb external SSD doesn't always get recognised upon restart. Not sure why. It's formatted as APFS under a GUID partition map. (Again: I'm running Mojave). Same nvme enclosure as my old 1tb user folder drive, which worked smoothly for 2 years without any problems whatsoever.

My workaround for now is:
1) disconnect SSD
2) turn on MacMini
3) log into Admin account
4) now connect SSD and wait for it to appear in the finder
5) log out of Admin
6) log in as user

This works 100% of the time, but is quite annoying of course.
Sometimes I can bypass steps 3-5 and just wait until I see the login screen & then connect the SSD.

The SSD drive light is a good indicator:
if it stays permanently on after connecting the drive, the drive isn't recognised and I know login will fail / I need to first log on as Admin
if the light starts flashing upon connection, I know I can log straight into my user account without problems.

Is this a drive problem? Like I said: I'm using the same nvme enclosure as before, on the same USB-C.
The new 2tb drive is from Crucial.
The old 1tb drive is a Samsung, and never had those problems.

Really weird...

 

[KeesMacPro]

Good to hear you got it up and running!

Is this a drive problem? Like I said: I'm using the same nvme enclosure as before, on the same USB-C.
The new 2tb drive is from Crucial.
The old 1tb drive is a Samsung, and never had those problems.

My 2-cents on the drive mark and/or model.
It's a shame you got it working again and got this necessary workaround...
I suppose you cant return the drive and get the same Samsung .. (?)

 

[chown33]

Sounds like a timing problem.

Specifically, the new drive is slow to respond for some reason, so it fails to get mounted at the time the repointed user folder is looked for. As a result, it appears to the OS as if that user-folder doesn't exist.

The delay appears to be attributable to the drive itself, rather than the controller in the extern enclosure.

I don't know of any way to diagnose this any further, without resorting to fancy electronic diagnostic equipment connected to the extern drive.

I also don't know of a way to delay the OS to let the extern drive mount. To do that, we'd need to figure out two things:
1. Where and when is the extern user-folder looked for.
2. Where is a point in the boot process before then where a delay can be placed.

One possible work-around I can think of is to not put the entire user-folder on the extern-drive. Instead, put it on the internal drive, and use symlinks to point specific sub-folders to the extern-drive. This used to be possible, but I don't know if it still is. Some experimenting might be worthwhile.

It might also help others offer advice if you explain your reason for moving the user-folder to an extern. If it's lack of internal-drive space because you have lots of big files in your home folder, there might be alternatives that don't require having the entire user-folder on the extern drive.

Another possibility might be to put the bigger drive into the Mac mini, and keep the user-folder there.

 

[Beliblis]

@chown33 Not only does the drive mount slowly. It also prevents the MacMini from booting (white Apple logo on black screen until I unplug the drive). Been using Macs / external HDs for many years and never had this problem.
MacMini is a 2018 model, so putting the drive in isn't an option.

I could return the drive to Amazon, but it was a sweet Black Friday deal, so a Samsung replacement would cost a lot more today. I guess I could revert back to my old 1tb drive as a "User" drive, and use the new 2tb as a "Work" drive (footage, PSD files etc).
Not what I wanted, and another USB-port occupied. But on the long run that'd probably be less inconvenient than having to unplug the drive for every restart.

Re: delay the OS to let the drive mount:
I have a USB-Stick with an EFI Boot partition (from egpu.io), which I use to boot into Windows with eGPU. Could that be useful for this purpose?
Problem still is that the Mac is stuck in "Apple logo on black screen" with the drive attached... which is actually the most annoying part of this whole saga....
I mean: shouldn't Crucial be more transparent about that (or at least drive reviews to pick up on that)?
Or could it be that my specific drive is slow/faulty?

My reasons for having the user folder on an external drive are size, redundancy and security:
I've never liked Apple's "soldered on" approach. If the Mac fails, then the entire machine needs to go back to Apple. WIth an external drive, I can at least access my data. Or just get a replacement Mac and be up and running real quickly.
This actually happened to a friend whilst on an important job: His MBP packed in mid-day, last backup was from the night before. Hard drive rescue specialists said they can't do anything with the soldered-on drive.
Bonus when working with external nvme: When I go away for a few days, the drive is really easy to hide in my flat, in case of a burglary. Or I just take the drive with me. (Backup is on a hardware-encrypted 6tb WD drive).

 

[Fishrrman]

OP:

The2018 Mini has a VERY fast internal SSD.
I have one myself and am using it now.
I just tested the speed using BlackMagic Speed Test.
I got reads of 2710MBps and writes of 2025MBps.
(what kind of reads/writes does booting from the external SSD give you?)

You should be BOOTING AND RUNNING from the INTERNAL SSD.

Your home folder should be on the INTERNAL SSD.
(even if some of the libraries you have won't fit).

What you should do is... relocate your "large libraries" (such as pics, music, movies) to the EXTERNAL SSD. And then "reference to them" with the apps you're using.

The apps you use can probably handle that seamlessly (Photos certainly can, etc.).

There's nothing complicated about this.
All that you're doing is "moving the libraries", while the home folder remains on the internal drive.

I predict if you "do it my way", your problems will be COMPLETELY resolved.

 

[Beliblis]

OP:
I predict if you "do it my way", your problems will be COMPLETELY resolved.

Of course that would solve the problems, no doubt. But: with my old 1tb external SSD those problems never existed either. I know the internal SSD is very fast – external SSDs can achieve the same speeds (Samsung X5 for example).

Anyway – for reasons posted above, I'll stick with home folder on external drive for the forseeable future.