Photo Assignment idea for May

[Chip NoVaMac]

Here in the US we will start "celebrating" Memorial Day on Friday, May 25th ending with the proper day "acknowledgment on Monday May 29th.

Here is the Wiki info on that day: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memorial_Day

At least here in the US this day is the start of the pool and beach season. Also used by merchants for big Memorial Day Sales. The thought with this assignment is to capture your images of Memorial Day. For those in the US, it might lead to interesting images of excess, fun, remembrance, and the such. For others around the world, I am not sure what we will see.

I for one hope that we can see some fun with this.

 

[Chip NoVaMac]

Some food for thought

This is an assignment that IMO has a time deadline.

Attached are images from Rolling Thunder 2002, the first one after 9-11 - a special meaning for many. Now with many years in Iraq, we might see some interesting new images.

For those that might need some help in thinking outside the box, it might include images from VA hospitals. Or it might be protest images protesting those that have fought in wars. The possibilities are endless.

I propose that we limit ourselves to 3 images covering a each particular aspect of that weekend (sun, parades, protests, and the such); with a total limit of 9 images for anyone member.

 

[Abstract]

Cool, I get to twiddle my thumbs until June.

 

[Clix Pix]

This year I'm going to make it a point to capture some shots of Rolling Thunder. It's such an impressive sight, all these guys (and women) on their powerful machines. There are a couple of motels a couple of miles down the road from where I live (I'm in the suburbs and this particular road is a straight shot into DC) and each year on Memorial Day Weekend the parking lots are packed with Harleys and such -- that in itself is just a really neat and unique sight! All weekend it's hard to miss that Rolling Thunder is in town. Traffic patterns definitely change as the ratio of bikes to cars shifts and we see a LOT of motorcyles all over the place, not just in the parade.

Definitely Memorial Day and all that comes along with it can be definite fodder for shooting interesting and not always traditional images; it's a good suggestion for May's photos.....

However, I imagine that as we've done before we'll vote on various topics and then whichever is the winner becomes the topic. Since not everyone participating here is from the US, Memorial Day might not be the winning topic. Time will tell...

 

[Clix Pix]

Some nice shots, Chip!

I especially like the one with the little boy making the V sign and the bearded vet looking right at him....

 

[Abstract]

Oh yeah, I did forget to mention that these are some great shots.

ANZAC (Australia New Zealand) day is coming up in a few days here and it's like Memorial Day in America. I forget when "Memorial" Day is in Canada, but I think it's November 11th at 11:11 am.

 

[Chip NoVaMac]

Thanks Clix and Abstract. Rolling Thunder that year was quite moving.

Abstract, that could give you time for your own personal projects.

Clix, for our international members, the theme might be more limiting. But maybe not. For images of the battle fields of any war that US military fought on, would be fair game I think. Any memorials might be fair game too. I am not opposed to seeing picnics and beach scenes from our Memorial Day weekend from around the world.

 

[Applespider]

Clix, for our international members, the theme might be more limiting. But maybe not. For images of the battle fields of any war that US military fought on, would be fair game I think.

Whoop de doo! While you're welcome to put that up as an assignment for the May vote, I for one, hope that it doesn't win. While I appreciate that Memorial Day means something for those in the US, for the international members it means nothing (Armistice Day on 11 November is more international).

Suggesting that we try to take pictures where the US military fought is pretty condescending, particularly in the current global climate. Since the majority of international members are in the UK and Australia (and the US haven't fought on either of those soils), I'd object strongly to that being the next assignment. Feel free to have a Memorial Day thread but don't expect us all to wave pompoms about it.

Perhaps having a less confrontational 'Memorials' would be a way around it, allowing US members to shoot Memorial Day while those internationally can shoot what is important to them.

 

[Abstract]

People could always post their vacation photos from Iraq.


Anyway, people could just post photos from the US Memorial day in this thread. Doesn't have to be assignment related. I just posted a thread about Autumn, and it's not like most of our members are experiencing anything like autumn at the moment.

 

[Chip NoVaMac]

Whoop de doo! While you're welcome to put that up as an assignment for the May vote, I for one, hope that it doesn't win. While I appreciate that Memorial Day means something for those in the US, for the international members it means nothing (Armistice Day on 11 November is more international).

Suggesting that we try to take pictures where the US military fought is pretty condescending, particularly in the current global climate. Since the majority of international members are in the UK and Australia (and the US haven't fought on either of those soils), I'd object strongly to that being the next assignment. Feel free to have a Memorial Day thread but don't expect us all to wave pompoms about it.

Perhaps having a less confrontational 'Memorials' would be a way around it, allowing US members to shoot Memorial Day while those internationally can shoot what is important to them.

Well, I did at least try to include international members in my idea at least.

If you have any other ideas on how my original idea might work for an "international" audience like we have on MR, then offer them.

Memorial Day as a theme was offered since at least here in the US, it might lead to some interesting images. It could even be offered as a secondary theme.

Keep in mind that the theme I suggested is not about the military aspects only. Notice I said:

For those in the US, it might lead to interesting images of excess, fun, remembrance, and the such. For others around the world, I am not sure what we will see.

Maybe I should have been more clear. I see this theme as being one that could be filled with images of parades, Rolling Thunder, cemeteries of those fallen; but also of the picnics, the throngs that go to the beach here in the US, the Memorial Day sales, and the such.

You might want to study US War history. While we might not have fought actual battles on these soils, many US service men and women last set foot on these soils before their untimely deaths. And in some corners of these countries they are still remembered, or should be remembered for their sacrifice.

Given some of the comments made in other threads, I disagree with the glass half empty that you and Abstract seem to have. I mention your two names only because of the comments and moderations you both have mentioned in the "assignments" threads.

My comments have been in trying to make this more open to others. Strict time lines with short notice does not help us develop the craft of photography. Which is what I would hope is the goal of "themes. One to get us out and contribute to a "theme" in a limited time span. And maybe my desire and others to contribute images that fall outside of that time span that might help in "themes".

Having two different threads does not help in getting healthy comments. And adds to the message bloat that is MR. For myself I look forward to "assignments" that are realistic is giving thought to. My "Memorial Day Assignment" gives more than 30 days at this point to give some thought as to how one might approach it.

Both you and Abstract gave comments in another thread that give rise as to whom the threads are truly about. I believe it was you that said that if I wanted more from "assignments", I should go off to a photo forum. Abstract seems to have requested deletion of a thread that had a common image from different points of view. It seems to me that by some standard you both are the voice for photo threads in the Digital Photo Forum.

I am all for rules. They can provide order. But they should not be exclusionary in an open forum like MR. To be honest I never saw a poll as to those that should hold sway over the "assignment" threads.

And with both of your recent comments here and on other threads, I question both of your abilities to be open and fair to those posting in photo threads in the Digital Photo Forum. As it was suggested to me, maybe it is time for you both to seek your own private forum with the rules that you both can live with.

MR has not been so much about rules, as it has been about guidelines. That is what has made MR fun. IMO you both are zapping that fun in a forum that i and many others fought for.

 

[Abstract]

I see this theme as being one that could be filled with images of parades, Rolling Thunder, cemeteries of those fallen; but also of the picnics, the throngs that go to the beach here in the US, the Memorial Day sales, and the such.

Then what do non-Americans do? There are no celebrations, no embrace. People go to work and school.

What I don't understand is why you can't just start a "Post your Memorial Day photos" thread. It doesn't have to be assignment related, and you don't leave anyone out completely. Can't you just post photos?

Given some of the comments made in other threads, I disagree with the glass half empty that you and Abstract seem to have. I mention your two names only because of the comments and moderations you both have mentioned in the "assignments" threads.

My comments have been in trying to make this more open to others.

How have I had a "glass half empty" view? There are rules that you, efoto, and Applespider created, and I'm following them. efoto isn't even here anymore, Applespider doesn't know them (although at least tries to make a clear decision on the fly when questions DO arise), and you don't even know why these rules exist. When people have questions about it, I answer them and give them the lowdown. If all we do is post 2 pages where nobody is sure of the rules, it looks disorganized. Sound, definite answers are more clear. Fluttery answers aren't clear, so I decided to reiterate rules that you contributed to creating.

I believe it was you that said that if I wanted more from "assignments", I should go off to a photo forum. Abstract seems to have requested deletion of a thread that had a common image from different points of view. It seems to me that by some standard you both are the voice for photo threads in the Digital Photo Forum.

I am all for rules. They can provide order.

Well they don't provide order if you made them up and don't know what they are. I am trying to be fair, but if you didn't want rules, you shouldn't have made them and then say I can't be fair.

And I didn't want a thread deleted. Someone asked about posting more than one photo of the same subject was ok.

As it was suggested to me, maybe it is time for you both to seek your own private forum with the rules that you both can live with.

Yes, probably.
I don't even like the rules. Too restrictive for something that really shouldn't have many rules. I can count 3 rules in my head that are needed for this to work. But again, I have always said that, but still followed the rules. Just wanted to go along thinking that most people were on the same page about the assignment and didn't want to be the guy who wasn't doing so.

That is what has made MR fun. IMO you both are zapping that fun in a forum that i and many others fought for.

I think that constantly editing the rules; constantly talking about rules and assignment topics; constantly discussing voting methods for topics; the time period of the assignments; multiple threads for voting and commenting, etc.....has zapped the fun out, and you definitely contributed to that more than I have.

 

[Chip NoVaMac]

Then what do non-Americans do? There are no celebrations, no embrace. People go to work and school.

What I don't understand is why you can't just start a "Post your Memorial Day photos" thread. It doesn't have to be assignment related, and you don't leave anyone out completely. Can't you just post photos?

You and I are at ends with each other. I gave a broad enough span to try and make it work for all parties. Both working odd shifts and those on different shores.

But you have only focused on the negatives; since it does not suit your purpose. To that end I say we should say good bye to the assignments. and you and Applesider. And hello to w/nw threads. There is no reason for two threads just because of some slanted poll on a select few. And in the end you yourself personally can select images for deletion.

How have I had a "glass half empty" view? There are rules that you, efoto, and Applespider created, and I'm following them. efoto isn't even here anymore, Applespider doesn't know them (although at least tries to make a clear decision on the fly when questions DO arise), and you don't even know why these rules exist. When people have questions about it, I answer them and give them the lowdown. If all we do is post 2 pages where nobody is sure of the rules, it looks disorganized. Sound, definite answers are more clear. Fluttery answers aren't clear, so I decided to reiterate rules that you contributed to creating.

I made suggestions. I never saw wear we ever "voted" them as rules. We only saw polls by one one of you all. It does seem to be you and Applesider deciding on what is right or wrong in the assignment threads,. You by asking for a deletion, and Applesider asking that "discussion" of the "rules" to limited to a thread that is not "stickied" .

I know that this may hurt you. But if the hard and fast attitudes between you, myself, and Abstract are to prevail. Then Abstract and I are the only ones in equal standing IMO, since we have have put our mouths were our money is. We have demi status. And despite posting status, I think that those of us that put our dollars and words rank above those that just post words, Hey, that is just me and my opinion.

Well they don't provide order if you made them up and don't know what they are. I am trying to be fair, but if you didn't want rules, you shouldn't have made them and then say I can't be fair.

I never had a true say in the rules. I made suggestions. Some how a select few are able to limit submissions and healthy comment on what is going on.

And I didn't want a thread deleted. Someone asked about posting more than one photo of the same subject was ok.

But thay was the same as limiting or deleting a post IMO. Further reason IMO that we ned to do away from "formal" assignments for the time being being over seen by non-mods. till the point that the DFP can support an inclusive nature of ALL members

I don't even like the rules. Too restrictive for something that really shouldn't have many rules. But again, I have always said that, but still followed them.

But you you seem to want to enforce the "rules" ; even when there was b=never a clear majority as to what the rules would be,

It bothers me that it takes a poll that gives just maybe two weeks to come up with ideas. And when an idea is posted the two most vocal opponents are you and Applesider.

Surprising that you that you are the only totally negative comments so far on my idea. At leas Clix offered constructive comments

I think that constantly editing the rules; constantly talking about rules and assignment topics; constantly discussing voting methods for topics; the time period of the assignments; multiple threads for voting and commenting, etc.....has zapped the fun out, and you definitely contributed to that more than I have.

Keep i mind that there is no true prize for the assignment thread, But the fir words you spoke of what you you do with your thumbs. It showed me at least that the assignments was not so much about the the rest of us; but about your self.

If this forum is to be about fun, and the lack of rules. Why have limitations as to when the picture was taken?

It truly seems that you two are speaking out both sids of the mouth.

 

[Abstract]

You and I are at ends with each other. I gave a broad enough span to try and make it work for all parties. Both working odd shifts and those on different shores.

You think Memorial Day was a broad topic for everyone? I know you said the rest of us can take photos of people enjoying themselves during the day, but it's just a regular day for non-Americans.

To that end I say we should say good bye to the assignments. and you and Applesider.

I know that this may hurt you. But if the hard and fast attitudes between you, myself, and Applespider are to prevail. Then Applespider and I are the only ones in equal standing IMO, since we have have put our mouths were our money is. We have demi status. And despite posting status, I think that those of us that put our dollars and words rank above those that just post words, Hey, that is just me and my opinion.

Two statements I'm surprised to hear. I didn't know you owned the forum?

And because you and Applespider donated money to MacRumours, and are "Demi-Gods" because of your donation, you rank above the rest of us and your words are more valuable. Wow....just wow. We'll agree to disagree on that, but sure.

...But you you seem to want to enforce the "rules" ; even when there was b=never a clear majority as to what the rules would be

....Keep i mind that there is no true prize for the assignment thread, But the fir words you spoke of what you you do with your thumbs. It showed me at least that the assignments was not so much about the the rest of us; but about your self.

The assignments aren't about me, but it's not about you either. I thought the topics were supposed to allow almost everyone to contribute? You think "Memorial Day" is inclusive, but how is it inclusive if you're not American? But like you said, since you donated money and are a "Demi-God" (all hail the Demi-God!!), you should have more say than me. Also, since you're also an American on an American board, maybe you should have more pull around here than Applespider as well.

And about "enforcing rules", people asked what's allowed, and yes, Applespider and I decided to just quickly answer the questions without consulting everyone else -- no votes or anything. We were just trying to give clear explanations of what we know the rules to be. I did the same thing when I saw someone start a thread advertising mobile phones in another forum. I mentioned to the OP that it was against MacRumours rules. Again, they're not my rules and I'm not a mod, but sometimes you need to take charge....take initiative.

 

[Applespider]

Chip... I did make a suggestion as to how we could make it inclusive by suggestion you made it simply 'Memorials' rather than specifically Memorial Day. I wasn't being entirely negative.

What I was offended by in your second post was the suggestion that for international members we could take a picture of a battlefield where the US military had fought. I'm still offended by that suggestion since it suggests that the US military is somehow more important than our own nations.

To be honest, I had very little to do with the original rules. They were mainly thought up by whocares and efoto (neither of whom are active any longer). While I suggested a few things back there (mainly to make them less restrictive), efoto and whocares had apparently been on other forums where problems did arise and wanted to get them down. You are very welcome to make comments in there - and we can rework the rules accordingly. They're not set in stone (other than we'd have to start a new thread since we can't edit whocare's post). They're not stickied since they're linked in the sticky.

The only reason I appear to be getting cited now is because the assignments died a death after Christmas and since several people asked if we were still doing, I offered (as a 'regular' on these boards who wasn't likely to stop posting) to make sure that the assignment topics and votes were done and set up the appropriate threads. There were no stickies at that point - I asked a mod to do that to last month's thread since it kept migrating off the bottom of the page. One of the original ideas (and how it worked in December) was that everyone created their own Assignment 1 thread but they were a struggle to find - hence why we moved to one long thread.

Since I seem to have become the 'de facto' organiser, I've made a few calls when people questioned the rules. I'm far more 'work in the spirit of the competition with a few set rules' than following them all slavishly. To be honest, I think they could be summed up by meeting the time limit, making sure they're legal, not being nastily critical in the comments with regards to camera brands (not really a problem on MR) and having a single shot per subject (series of pics should have their own thread)

While you seem to feel that assignments are too structured and shouldn't have a time limit, most people didn't. They wanted a topic that they could attempt to shoot for a month and see what happened. The 'monthly' theme seems to be the standard with most sites which have one.

There are no restrictions saying that only photos that meet the assignment criteria should be posted in the photography forum. There's nothing stopping anyone starting a thread with an image they've seen (or a series of them) and asking others if they have similar subjects or want to comment (as your w/nw idea).

As for photo forums, no, I won't be entering any images in their assignments. I'm a rank amateur with a P&S camera - and I've seen the comments from the professionals about them. The assignment idea was taken up here since it would allow those with an interest in photography but not the equipment or skills to join in without the snobbery that can take place in a photography forum. If you're comfortable in a forum, you're usually more likely to participate. I wouldn't feel comfortable in most photography forums. But the photography forum is a small part of these boards and you're never going to get the same level of photography, comments and critics as you would on a dedicated forum. All I meant to suggest is that if you need more from this sub-forum, it might be time to graduate to a dedicated one where you'd get more of what you're looking for.

And no, I won't be leaving here either. I'm not trying to be awkward and I don't think my demi-status entitles me to anything. I really didn't think I'd been particularly argumentative and I thought I'd been pretty even-handed with regards to trying not to clutter other threads. I'm quite happy to hand over the 'assignment' job to someone else - or to a mod (which was foreseen as one of the potential problems) although we'd hoped we were grown-up enough to get along without one.

 

[Blue Velvet]

As it was suggested to me, maybe it is time for you both to seek your own private forum with the rules that you both can live with.

To that end I say we should say good bye to the assignments. and you and Applesider.

...the only ones in equal standing IMO, since we have have put our mouths were our money is. We have demi status. And despite posting status, I think that those of us that put our dollars and words rank above those that just post words.

It's come to this? Incredible.

That 'As it was suggested to me' comment is extremely provocative, Chip.

And if we're going to pull rank, then as it was my original idea for the forum, I think I should call the shots, as it were.

 

[andiwm2003]

i tried to stay out of this discussion as long as i could. but this discussion now starts to make the assignment threat less and less fun.

there is a good thread about photo assignments.

chip doesn't like the format at all. that is fine.

but please do not post your page long suggestions in the actual assignment thread. it's quite annoying to click the thread twice a day just to see that there are no new pictures but endless posts that there should be a different format for the assignmets.

if you don't like this format start your own picture thread with the rules you like. there are surely people who prefer your format over the format that (mainly) applespider organizes in the assignments thread. these people will post in your thread, the rest will post in applespiders thread.

posting new threads under similar titles as the assignment thread to promote a different format isn't helpful because it just confuses people what the relevant thread for them is (e.g. w/nw: 'Insanity of Humanity' or 'Metal').

again, if you want to modify/improve this format, post it in the appropriate threads like this one only.

if you don't want to submit photos in this format and change the format entirely please let us have our fun, do not highjack this thread, create your own thread. maybe it turns out great and everybody loves it.

 

[Abstract]

It's funny how it's (apparently) time for me and Applespider to leave this forum because we took charge without anyone asking us to do so, and yet nobody decided to give him the power of running this forum, either. I didn't even know I could be booted from a forum by Chip, or that Chip could stop these assignments from happening.

I don't care if they're stopped. I'll still post in the assignment threads if they arise, and I'll still start my own threads to show people "Sunrise" photos, or "Autumn photos in April."

I never argued that Chip shouldn't be allowed to start a thread about Memorial day and have other members post their photos as well, only that Memorial Day isn't an assignment topic that isn't inclusive to non-Americans despite how he feels as an American. But go ahead with that Memorial Day thread. It's a good idea for American members.

The only reason I appear to be getting cited now is because the assignments died a death after Christmas and since several people asked if we were still doing, I offered (as a 'regular' on these boards who wasn't likely to stop posting) to make sure that the assignment topics and votes were done and set up the appropriate threads.

....Since I seem to have become the 'de facto' organiser, I've made a few calls when people questioned the rules. I'm far more 'work in the spirit of the competition with a few set rules' than following them all slavishly.

....I'm quite happy to hand over the 'assignment' job to someone else - or to a mod (which was foreseen as one of the potential problems) although we'd hoped we were grown-up enough to get along without one.

Basically, since the assignments weren't going anywhere, and nobody was even starting the "Topic ideas threads" at the beginning of each month, Applespider took charge so that this assignment idea wouldn't die each month. He started threads at the beginning of each month for topic ideas, and he sort of made sure these assignments didn't disappear. He has even changed some rules along the way, since some changes were suggested. I started the thread at the beginning of April because I think/thought Applespider forgot (sorry, but you were late ), and got caught up trying to help out. Nobody asked AppleSpider or I to do so, but these assignments would have died if it weren't for Applespider.

The fact that so many people posted means Applespider did more than anyone else to help, and that includes our other Demi-Gods.

 

[Clix Pix]

I am sorry to see things getting tense around here; it is really unfortunate that what initially was begun as a fun project seems to have caused a lot of discussion and controversy, not to mention confusion....

There is a photos subforum in the Community forum, too, which I think sometimes leads to further confusion. I'm sure that people have wondered where to post their images (especially ones not directly related to the monthly assignments) and that people have wondered how best to utilize the Digital Photography Forum. Is it to showcase our work? Is it to respond to questions about what kind of camera or lens(es) to purchase? Is it to host the monthly assignments? Is it to request help with digital imaging software or photo techniques? All of these and more?

Mayb we need to define what the Digital Photography Forum really is and in addition define and if need be restructure the parameters and purpose of the monthly assignments....

And, yes, we all do need to remember that MR is not a photography site, it's a site devoted to Apple products and the use of such products. Of course many of us are also into photography, graphics or the fine arts and so it is natural that interest in having discussions about digital photography in a forum devoted to this would lead to the development of such a forum.
Now that we've got it we don't want it to be spoiled by disagreements and confusion and of course all should be welcome to participate in it, regardless of their expertise (or lack thereof) and regardless of the equipment available to them.

As for the assignment topics, well....as I said in another post, when the time comes for suggestions and the voting, definitely any and all topics can be brought up, such as Chip's idea of Memorial Day (or as it used to be called, "Decoration Day") and then as we've done before members can vote.... My only wish is that people who vote on a topic would actually participate in shooting images for the assignment and that the assignment topic be one which is realistic enough and broad enough in scope that people can actually find something to shoot which will fulfill the project, regardless of skill set and type of equipment used.

 

[Chip NoVaMac]

To Applesider and Abstract, please note that your first posts, at least to me, had negative tones attached to them.

Cool, I get to twiddle my thumbs until June.

Whoop de doo! While you're welcome to put that up as an assignment for the May vote, I for one, hope that it doesn't win. While I appreciate that Memorial Day means something for those in the US, for the international members it means nothing (Armistice Day on 11 November is more international).

Suggesting that we try to take pictures where the US military fought is pretty condescending, particularly in the current global climate. Since the majority of international members are in the UK and Australia (and the US haven't fought on either of those soils), I'd object strongly to that being the next assignment. Feel free to have a Memorial Day thread but don't expect us all to wave pompoms about it.

Perhaps having a less confrontational 'Memorials' would be a way around it, allowing US members to shoot Memorial Day while those internationally can shoot what is important to them.

Please note that in my original post I gave rise to realizing that not all members were from the US. And when the question was raised about those outside of the US, I offered my thoughts. Applespider came closest to offering other ideas, but not till after his rant.

So I chose to rant back at the two of you. That I do regret, but private nature of the way you two made comments here and in other threads, just so seemed to be against the way MR has worked in the past.

 

[Chip NoVaMac]

It's come to this? Incredible.

That 'As it was suggested to me' comment is extremely provocative, Chip.

And if we're going to pull rank, then as it was my original idea for the forum, I think I should call the shots, as it were.

First, I can see now how that could be taken out of context. But it was in another thread that I was told I could always take and start my own private forum by either Applespider or Abstract in another thread (to lazy to search for it to give proper credit.).

Blue, the point is that unless the Mods decide otherwise, no one person or group of people should be calling the shots for the DPF here on MR. It should be a collaborative effort, with the least restrictions as possible.

 

[Applespider]

Incidentally, both Abstract and Chip, I'm a girl

 

[MacMosher]

Whoop de doo! While you're welcome to put that up as an assignment for the May vote, I for one, hope that it doesn't win. While I appreciate that Memorial Day means something for those in the US, for the international members it means nothing (Armistice Day on 11 November is more international).

Suggesting that we try to take pictures where the US military fought is pretty condescending, particularly in the current global climate. Since the majority of international members are in the UK and Australia (and the US haven't fought on either of those soils), I'd object strongly to that being the next assignment. Feel free to have a Memorial Day thread but don't expect us all to wave pompoms about it.

Perhaps having a less confrontational 'Memorials' would be a way around it, allowing US members to shoot Memorial Day while those internationally can shoot what is important to them.

I completly and whole heartedly agree. We in Canada do not celebrate this day either, I think this assignment would be extremly poor canidate for any one out side of the states. Like Spider said, November 11th would be more international if you were to do somthing like this, and I believe Veterns day is close to this is it not?

Anyways Im going to sit back and try to think of an assignment.