iPad Pro Photos processing workflow - laptop vs iPad usage

[secretk]

Hello as suggested in this thread/post here is a new thread focused on photos processing workflow comparison between iPad and laptop.

First few basics on the hardware/software I use for comparison:

Device	Laptop	iPad
Model	Asus Vivobook Pro N580VD 8 GB RAM i7 CPU	iPP 2018 11 inch, 512 GB, 4 GB RAM
Software	DxO OpticsPro 11	Affinity Photo

I did two tests last week that I would transfer from that thread here. Basically I process the RAW file without applying anything additional:

Laptop

iPad

Laptop

iPad

It was noticeable that by default DxO removes noise more efficiently than Affinity.

Today I decided to play out with the Noise removal filter and this is the result:

I also played with old landscape photos with lots of haze. Here Affinity Photo wins because it has Haze Removal filter while the free version of DxO does not have. Here are comparisons:

Haze photo (without any tweaks/adjustments):

Laptop

iPad

I will continue to test and share observations. And anyone who has established workflow with Affinity could share it here. I think we can all learn something new.

 

[sparksd]

On the iPad, what do you do with display settings, e.g., brightness and also contrast and white point settings under Accessibility? Do you feel you have a good match with the iPad and laptop displays?

 

[secretk]

On the iPad, what do you do with display settings, e.g., brightness and also contrast and white point settings under Accessibility? Do you feel you have a good match with the iPad and laptop displays?

To be honest I do the processing based on Intuition. I know totally unprofessional and amateur but I am not professional. So I would not say that the settings of the displays that I am using are factor for the first sort of test because there I had not done any tweaks through the apps to rely on the display. I only used the apps themselves to process raw files.

With the last photo I had to go through more filters related to bringing clarity and contrast outside of the haze removal on Affinity. As I wanted to remove the haze I had to play a bit with contrast and clarity to make it happen. DxO does not have such filter and as much as I played with the Contrast and Microcontrast points I could not remove it fully. I honestly mostly followed a logical process with the idea that to remove the haze I need to up the contrast and saturation of the colors and then play around with the brightness to play down the sharpness.

That being said in terms of comparison the laptop display is set to higher Brightness. On the iPad Reduce white point is set to off. Btw for the last test I had uploaded the DxO first picture (after general processing) without the tweaks which is not a fair test. I know will replace it with the one where I have done manual corrections (just like I did on the iPad).

What I noticed right away is that Affinity tends to process the raw photos from my camera in the cooler tones while DxO goes warmer. I cannot tell you why but by default the two apps provide quite different color wise results after general processing (without any tweaks from me).

Also the iPad was with True Tone on and Night Shift on so maybe I should try to turn those settings off when edit photos.

 

[sparksd]

To be honest I do the processing based on Intuition. I know totally unprofessional and amateur but I am not professional. So I would not say that the settings of the displays that I am using are factor for the first sort of test because there I had not done any tweaks through the apps to rely on the display. I only used the apps themselves to process raw files.

With the last photo I had to go through more filters related to bringing clarity and contrast outside of the haze removal on Affinity. As I wanted to remove the haze I had to play a bit with contrast and clarity to make it happen. DxO does not have such filter and as much as I played with the Contrast and Microcontrast points I could not remove it fully. I honestly mostly followed a logical process with the idea that to remove the haze I need to up the contrast and saturation of the colors and then play around with the brightness to play down the sharpness.

That being said in terms of comparison the laptop display is set to higher Brightness. On the iPad Reduce white point is set to off. Btw for the last test I had uploaded the DxO first picture (after general processing) without the tweaks which is not a fair test. I know will replace it with the one where I have done manual corrections (just like I did on the iPad).

What I noticed right away is that Affinity tends to process the raw photos from my camera in the cooler tones while DxO goes warmer. I cannot tell you why but by default the two apps provide quite different color wise results after general processing (without any tweaks from me).

Warmer vs cooler may be due to different white balance / temperature values used by the different apps. You might check what gross settings they use by default (e.g., As Shot, Auto, Daylight, etc.).

 

[secretk]

Warmer vs cooler may be due to different white balance / temperature values used by the different apps. You might check what gross settings they use by default (e.g., As Shot, Auto, Daylight, etc.).

Yes, good point. DxO used by default As shot but I changed to Cloudy because I did not like the result of the As shot settings for this particular photo. At least now (based on my current restricted knowledge of Affinity) I cannot find where this setting in Affinity is to tell you to what it is set.

 

[cupcakes2000]

I suspect this test would be a lot more viable if you used the same app on each machine, as the software processing differences are the most likely contributing factors rather than the machine.

Or you should retitle the thread to indicate the differences are between the software packages on each machine.

If you want to do ‘laptop verses iPad’, then you should use the same app on each or it’s not even remotely a true test of either machine’s benefit over the other.

 

[secretk]

I suspect this test would be a lot more viable if you used the same app on each machine, as the software processing differences are the most likely contributing factors rather than the machine.

Or you should retitle the thread to indicate the differences are between the software packages on each machine.

If you want to do ‘laptop verses iPad’, then you should use the same app on each or it’s not even remotely a true test of either machine’s benefit over the other.

Ah yeah I forgot to copy this from the previous thread. I do not have the Affinity photo on my laptop and would not pay for it as I have DxO already. The comparison is for me (and my context) indeed between laptop and iPad because on a laptop I do use DxO and I do not plan to use anything else as it is an application that fits my needs perfectly - has algorithms optimized for my camera/lens combo, applies machine learning and suggests me automatically adjustments based on the picture EXIF data and allows batch processing. Oh yeah and the best noise reduction capabilities out there. So it really fits my needs perfectly.

Such app does not exist on an iPad. So if I want to be able to process photos while being only with the iPad I had to install some other app. I installed Affinity photo. Naturally after that I started testing to see the difference and to know how I can use the app.

That being said I will retitle the thread to include the workflow because what I am doing is comparison of the photos processing workflow that I have on the laptop and on the iPad. So it should be noted that it is not comparison of the devices or their power, but more like the software capabilities on both platforms.

 

[SimonMScott]

Commenting to mainly follow this thread, but also:

I mainly use an Adobe Lightroom workflow and would be interested in seeing more direct comparisons for like to like software if anyone uses a Lightroom workflow?

 

[secretk]

Commenting to mainly follow this thread, but also:

I mainly use an Adobe Lightroom workflow and would be interested in seeing more direct comparisons for like to like software if anyone uses a Lightroom workflow?

Do you use Lightroom both on computer and iPad? That would be indeed interesting comparison.

 

[SimonMScott]

Do you use Lightroom both on computer and iPad? That would be indeed interesting comparison.

Yes, but still getting to grips with iPad workflow so not sure I’d be best to compare!

 

[cupcakes2000]

Commenting to mainly follow this thread, but also:

I mainly use an Adobe Lightroom workflow and would be interested in seeing more direct comparisons for like to like software if anyone uses a Lightroom workflow?

I do. The workflow is a little different. What would you like to know? The whole process or ..?

If you’re interested in comparing the results of photographs edited in lightroom classic on a Mac v lightroom cc for iPad I can do some like for like experiments if I get time this weekend.

I have a shoot tomorrow, the first for over 3 months since all this stuff started!

 

[SimonMScott]

I do. The workflow is a little different. What would you like to know? The whole process or ..?

If you’re interested in comparing the results of photographs edited in lightroom classic on a Mac v lightroom cc for iPad I can do some like for like experiments if I get time this weekend.

I have a shoot tomorrow, the first for over 3 months since all this stuff started!

Oh wow! Congrats on a shoot. What type of work do you shoot @cupcakes2000 ?

Any comparison welcome. I’m intrigued by the latest updates to Lightroom on iPad.

As in, the new ‘Versions’ feature and whether if you create multiple versions of a photo can you still export or batch export multiple images at once using this new feature, as I use this a lot on desktop with ‘virtual copies’?

 

[AutomaticApple]

Hello as suggested in this thread/post here is a new thread focused on photos processing workflow comparison between iPad and laptop.

First few basics on the hardware/software I use for comparison:

Device	Laptop	iPad
Model	Asus Vivobook Pro N580VD 8 GB RAM i7 CPU	iPP 2018 11 inch, 512 GB, 4 GB RAM
Software	DxO OpticsPro 11	Affinity Photo

I did two tests last week that I would transfer from that thread here. Basically I process the RAW file without applying anything additional:

Laptop

View attachment 925136
iPad
View attachment 925137

Laptop
View attachment 925138
iPad
View attachment 925139

It was noticeable that by default DxO removes noise more efficiently than Affinity.

Today I decided to play out with the Noise removal filter and this is the result:

View attachment 925140

View attachment 925141

I also played with old landscape photos with lots of haze. Here Affinity Photo wins because it has Haze Removal filter while the free version of DxO does not have. Here are comparisons:

Haze photo (without any tweaks/adjustments):
View attachment 925146

Laptop

View attachment 925145

iPad

View attachment 925143

I will continue to test and share observations. And anyone who has established workflow with Affinity could share it here. I think we can all learn something new.

The colors are noticeably darker on the iPad. Is it that big of a deal though?

 

[SimonMScott]

The colors are noticeably darker on the iPad. Is it that big of a deal though?

I thought that too, but there are a lot of variables there...different editing apps, etc. Were settings kept as consistent as possible across devices/apps?

 

[sparksd]

I thought that too, but there are a lot of variables there...different editing apps, etc. Were settings kept as consistent as possible across devices/apps?

The consistency between the displays themselves is a major factor. If one display is brighter than the other, then the processed image will appear darker when the two images are compared together on another display. Same can be said for color and noise.

 

[secretk]

The colors are noticeably darker on the iPad. Is it that big of a deal though?

Interestingly on the displays I am using (iPad, personal laptop, company laptop) I don't see so much that the colors are darker than that the color temperature is different. However I do have astigmatism so I might not see what normal people see.

Another factor is the filter on the iPad itself for the haze. I think that to remove the haze it does increases the contrast and lowers the exposure/brightness. I can however confirm that by default (without any additional tweaks done by me) DxO creates lighter image from the RAW file compared to Affinity.

Just to explain something guys because I think that I was unclear. My workflow on the laptop does not include me doing anything with the photo manually. DxO itself analyzes the exif data of the picture and the raw information itself and it decides on what settings to apply (noise removal, brightness, exposure adjustments etc). I don't need to rely on my laptop display that much to adjust the photo. It is the application that does it.

What I noticed though is that if I apply similar adjustments in Affinity it does affect the colors sharpness and contrast far more. And you are right that due to the fact that the brightness on the iPad is not set as high enough I do not see it properly and do not realize on the difference.

 

[actionmarker]

Interesting thread. I'm am a interested in iPad workflow for photo editing on an iPad. I currently use a Mac laptop, but when it gets to the end of life, my considerations will include the tablet market too.

I currently use DxO software (DxO PhotoLab 2) for my workflow. My main camera is an Olympus OMD-EM5 which I use primarily for RAW photos

Please don't take the following as critical, I am just trying to further the conversation. I apologise if I mention anything here you have already discussed ... there are a lots of words before me and I may have missed some.

One issue I have is that you are comparing DxO Optics Pro 11 which was released in 2016 v Affinity Photo which will presumably be the current 2020 version. There have been lots change in that time for both applications.
DxO is now up PhotoLab 3 (Optics Pro 11 was the last of that naming convention) and much has changed and been improved with the software since.
I would have thought you should be comparing current version software to get a decent comparison.

I was surprised to see that you say that Optic Pro 11 doesn't have a haze removal feature. Clear View (DxO name for haze reduction) was introduced in Optics Pro 10 and has been tweaked since, so I don't really know why you don't have that feature. Unless the Windows version was different to the Mac version?

DxO develop their own camera/lens profiles. They test the equipment and create a profile or module that adjusts optical errors, in an attempt to give the user a good starting point before any editing occurs. They cover optical flaws such as distortion, vignetting, chromatic aberrations, lack of sharpness, but do not apply any other exposure adjustments.
So if you do not touch the files and just export it out, all you will be seeing are the optical corrections.

While I haven't used Affinity, it's my understanding that it relies Apple's camera support for these initial adjustments. I don't believe Apple deal with lens corrections like DxO does, but just camera. So Affinity won't be dealing with the many optical corrections your camera/lens combination may have. I don't know if Affinity do any other initial adjustments automatically.

Because of the differing 'profiles' the applications use, I would suspect that this is the main reason that you are seeing the differences in the 'untouched' images you are processing out of these applications.

The comparison that you really want to be doing is to edit the images in the applications and then see how these processed jpgs are handled.

 

[secretk]

Interesting thread. I'm am a interested in iPad workflow for photo editing on an iPad. I currently use a Mac laptop, but when it gets to the end of life, my considerations will include the tablet market too.

I currently use DxO software (DxO PhotoLab 2) for my workflow. My main camera is an Olympus OMD-EM5 which I use primarily for RAW photos

Please don't take the following as critical, I am just trying to further the conversation. I apologise if I mention anything here you have already discussed ... there are a lots of words before me and I may have missed some.

No worries and thanks for bring your insights. The thread was started because I had posted already some observations and another poster suggested to create a thread where we could discuss. So the topic is not for people to agree with my observations. It is for brainstorming so much appreciated!

One issue I have is that you are comparing DxO Optics Pro 11 which was released in 2016 v Affinity Photo which will presumably be the current 2020 version. There have been lots change in that time for both applications.
DxO is now up PhotoLab 3 (Optics Pro 11 was the last of that naming convention) and much has changed and been improved with the software since.
I would have thought you should be comparing current version software to get a decent comparison.

This is a good point indeed!

I was surprised to see that you say that Optic Pro 11 doesn't have a haze removal feature. Clear View (DxO name for haze reduction) was introduced in Optics Pro 10 and has been tweaked since, so I don't really know why you don't have that feature. Unless the Windows version was different to the Mac version?

I am now on my company laptop but I will check and let you know .

DxO develop their own camera/lens profiles. They test the equipment and create a profile or module that adjusts optical errors, in an attempt to give the user a good starting point before any editing occurs. They cover optical flaws such as distortion, vignetting, chromatic aberrations, lack of sharpness, but do not apply any other exposure adjustments.
So if you do not touch the files and just export it out, all you will be seeing are the optical corrections.

Yes, they cannot predict anything. This is true. That being said I still like that there are things that I don't need to think about.

While I haven't used Affinity, it's my understanding that it relies Apple's camera support for these initial adjustments. I don't believe Apple deal with lens corrections like DxO does, but just camera. So Affinity won't be dealing with the many optical corrections your camera/lens combination may have. I don't know if Affinity do any other initial adjustments automatically.[/QUOTE

I am still learning about Affinity so do not take this as some sort of expert opinion but I did see possibilities to adjust distortion and all that but it is all pure manual process. You have to do it yourself.

Because of the differing 'profiles' the applications use, I would suspect that this is the main reason that you are seeing the differences in the 'untouched' images you are processing out of these applications.

For sure.

The comparison that you really want to be doing is to edit the images in the applications and then see how these processed jpgs are handled.

I kind of sort of already did in a way that comparison. It takes far more time in Affinity to do it as everything is a manual process. Unlike DxO that saves time and applies some things by default. Also the comparison view (between the RAW file and the file with the adjustments you do) is not that good. I prefer it in DxO as I can see both viws. As a whole Affinity has lots of options but they are applied to jpeg file. When it comes to RAW files work, DxO has more options. Or let's just say this is what I have found so far:

1. Lens Distortion and chromatic aberrations adjustments
2. Details - here is also noise reduction but honestly with such detail I did not find it at first
3. Tones/Curves
4. Metadata
5. Layers
6. Navigator
7. Snapshots (history of changes)

So basically it allows adjustments only about distortion, details (including noise) and tones/curves. And it is all manual. I am not expert and I do rely on DxO and its optimization to be honest. In that sense my preferable choice would be DxO. I can try to find a workflow on the iPad to get good results though.


This thread is so that people can also share their workflows.

 

[actionmarker]

I took this photo a number of years ago in RAW on a Cannon 600D (I think?). RAW detail is very 'flat' in these old Canons. I only picked this photo as its a little similar to your mountain shot.

Here is a quick comparison between DxO Optic Pro 11 and DxO PhotoLab2.
As you can see, while clearview does make a difference, any RAW shot needs proper editing to bring the image out.
My edited image isn't necessary a great edit, just highlights the changes that can be made in about 30 secs.

The two application versions are very similar with no edits as expected, but PhotoLab has many more features if you have the time to spend editing.

1. DxO Optics Pro 11 Module loaded, no edits.


2. DxO PhotoLab2 Module loaded, no edits.

3. DxO Optics Pro 11 Module loaded and only ClearView intensity 50 added.


4. DxO PhotoLab2 Module loaded and only ClearView intensity 50 added.


4. DxO PhotoLab2 Module loaded and edited

[automerge]1592578831[/automerge]
It sounds like Affinity has a big learning curve.
DxO is good that it does lots of initial 'adjustments' based on the camera and I find it's editing quick and easy to use, now that I have been using it for 5-6 years.

 

[secretk]

I took this photo a number of years ago in RAW on a Cannon 600D (I think?). RAW detail is very 'flat' in these old Canons. I only picked this photo as its a little similar to your mountain shot.

Here is a quick comparison between DxO Optic Pro 11 and DxO PhotoLab2.
As you can see, while clearview does make a difference, any RAW shot needs proper editing to bring the image out.
My edited image isn't necessary a great edit, just highlights the changes that can be made in about 30 secs.

The two application versions are very similar with no edits as expected, but PhotoLab has many more features if you have the time to spend editing.

Thanks for taking the time to do some edits with the two versions and share it here. Indeed you could see that the newer one is betters. Also yes, you can never have an application that would make automatically such photo awesome. You have to tweak it. I agree.

[automerge]1592578831[/automerge]
It sounds like Affinity has a big learning curve.
DxO is good that it does lots of initial 'adjustments' based on the camera and I find it's editing quick and easy to use, now that I have been using it for 5-6 years.

I assume that compared to say Photoshop the learning curve for Affinity is less. Problem is just like you I am used to DxO for similar reasons as yours. And because of this for me even Affinity requires some learning time. I guess with time I could find some sort of defined filters to apply to make it good enough and could be used when I am not at home but it would not be my primary device for photos processing for sure.

 

[actionmarker]

Workflow. I like to keep mine as simple as possible.
Take photos
Import to computer to my Master RAW folder
Launch DxO and apply edits.
Export to my Processed folder.
Import the ‘keepers’ to the family photo library. In this household, iCloud Photos.

DxO likes.
Non destructive editing where all edit information is stored in a small sidecar file. This keeps photo storage requirements low as there is only ever the original photo stored in the master folder.
Virtual copies. I want to edit the same photo a few ways, I make virtual copies and edit them. Again, all edits are just sidecar files and they don’t duplicate the original image.
No layers. Just turn on and off edit settings as required.
DxO dislike. No watermark feature. I can add copyright to the metadata but not visually on the image.

How does that compare to your workflow?
How does that compare to an iPad workflow?

 

[secretk]

Workflow. I like to keep mine as simple as possible.
Take photos
Import to computer to my Master RAW folder
Launch DxO and apply edits.
Export to my Processed folder.
Import the ‘keepers’ to the family photo library. In this household, iCloud Photos.

My workflow is pretty similar up to the point of back up. I don't use iCloud. I use external physical hard disk and Google Photos. However the essence is the same.

DxO likes.
Non destructive editing where all edit information is stored in a small sidecar file. This keeps photo storage requirements low as there is only ever the original photo stored in the master folder.
Virtual copies. I want to edit the same photo a few ways, I make virtual copies and edit them. Again, all edits are just sidecar files and they don’t duplicate the original image.
No layers. Just turn on and off edit settings as required.
DxO dislike. No watermark feature. I can add copyright to the metadata but not visually on the image.

I agree with those pros/cons. I also appreciate the performance. Given the algorithms DxO applies and the fact that those changes are non destructive I would have expected to take more time. They always improve the time and work actively on the performance and I appreciate this. Granted it depends obviously also on your machine and its power, but still this is a thing to be mentioned.

How does that compare to an iPad workflow?

On an iPad is a bit different. So first you need a some sort of dongle to import your raw files. You have to import them to your Camera roll. Then you cannot import them from Photos to Affinity. You have to open Affinity and import the raw photo from the Camera roll. No batch processing available. You have to do it photo by photo. There is no way to switch between the photos (the way you can you can in DxO). The changes done on the RAW file are destructive in the sense of the Affinity project. Yes, you have them in the Camera roll but if you want to start from the beginning you have to open them as new in Affinity. Export is rather convoluted. You have to click on Export button once, then to click on share button to be able to store the photo in your album in Photos. Otherwise you can store the image on your file system. The resulted image is 15 MB compared to the 5 MB from DxO. The export takes less time though because the changes were already applied and were destructive. This is in comparison to the non desctructive changes DxO does.

Overall in a day where I have the two devices available I would choose DxO. Affinity makes sense to be used on the go. If say during some trip you do not have your laptop with you and you want to process some photo to share it via social media or to send it to someone one. The other case where it makes sense is if you want to apply some brush changes that are easier with using Pencil. However you will have those needs only if you really use Photoshop or something similar in your usual workflow. For example I watched a tutorial on how to minimize dark circles around your eyes.

 

[actionmarker]

Yes, in my workflow the external backups and clones are also used.

DxO performance is quite good, even on my low performance MacBook. The processing speed when using Prime noise reduction is quite slow, but there is a lot going on during this process.

You've mentioned a couple of times about your exported image size compared with the RAW. I think it you may have an export setting causing that. The image I posted had a RAW file size of around 27MB and is 5148x3458px. The exported jpg without image resizing was just over 25MB. I can reduce the file size by enabling image resizing during the export process by selecting the image size. Maybe your application has this set to a smaller image size?

The iPad workflow sounds pretty clunky. Have you looked at Darkroom app, it is meant to interact directly with the Photos app on the iPad which may eliminate some of the steps, but based on your description, I don't think I would head that way in the future.

If I was after the tablet usage, maybe a Surface Pro would be an option.