Possible to create PPC and M1 UB

[Macbookprodude]

Hello, I am trying to design a universal binary app for M1 RISC and PPC RISC - is this possible to do and can M1, since it’s a cousin of PPC RISC, run such apps ? I am trying to create a new web browser called poshuk web browser.. it’s Ukrainian web browser for PPC and M1.

thank you.

 

[joevt]

I think it's possible but I haven't tried it. Build the binaries separately, then combine them using the lipo command.
Check the man page for lipo and arch.

M1 cannot run PPC. You'll need to find an emulator to do that. Here is PPC Mac running on x86 QEMU on an M1 Mac:

http://blog.greggant.com/posts/2021...os-osx-on-apple-silicon-m1-and-x86-intel.html

I suppose an ARM version of QEMU will work one day. Here is a way to build ARM QUEMU on macOS:
https://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=1473419
but I don't know if it can emulate PPC Mac.

As for building a universal app, the biggest problem may be the API differences between macOS 11 (the first OS for Apple Silicon) and Mac OS X 10.4 or 10.5 (the last OS for PPC Mac). Maybe it would be easier to use a third-party API?

 

[weckart]

Hello, I am trying to design a universal binary app for M1 RISC and PPC RISC - is this possible to do and can M1, since it’s a cousin of PPC RISC, run such apps ? I am trying to create a new web browser called poshuk web browser..

Your first problem will be combining current and 15 year old tools and APIs into one package both attempting to deal with today's internet.

Also, I'm not sure M1 users will see the need for bloated packages filling up the meagre storage on their computers.

 

[jdb8167]

M1 cannot run PPC. You'll need to find an emulator to do that. Here is PPC Mac running on x86 QEMU on an M1 Mac:

http://blog.greggant.com/posts/2021...os-osx-on-apple-silicon-m1-and-x86-intel.html

I suppose an ARM version of QEMU will work one day. Here is a way to build ARM QUEMU on macOS:
https://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=1473419
but I don't know if it can emulate PPC Mac.

I haven’t been able to get QEmu PPC emulation working on M1 native. I have gotten x86 to work finally.

Thanks for the pointer to the ars forum.

 

[Macbookprodude]

How do I get QEMU ?

 

[Macbookprodude]

Try running Leopard on it. Mac OS X 10.0 was garbage anyway. It got better under Panther and Tiger.

 

[DeltaMac]

@joevt posted some info about that in post #2 above.
Support site for QEMU here - https://www.qemu.org

 

[Macbookprodude]

@joevt posted some info about that in post #2 above.
Support site for QEMU here - https://www.qemu.org

Particular interest to me - QEMU for PPC, and not just Intel. I don’t have M1 yet.. I am waiting till it gets better then I will sell my 2015 MBP and get it - plus I need 15 inch screen, 13 inch is too small for me.

 

[jdb8167]

Particular interest to me - QEMU for PPC, and not just Intel. I don’t have M1 yet.. I am waiting till it gets better then I will sell my 2015 MBP and get it - plus I need 15 inch screen, 13 inch is too small for me.

Since you are using an Intel Mac, you can just download from the qemu website. That version doesn't work at all on Apple Silicon.

 

[Macbookprodude]

Actually, I am using a PowerPC Mac as I want to emulate older versions of OS X.

 

[DeltaMac]

(?) QEMU supports VMs with systems older than OSX, such as OS 9.
The oldest native system (which QEMU runs on) seems to be OS X 10.5 (Leopard)
It's not clear in the QEMU docs that QEMU can run on PPC hardware.

I think that jdb8167 was just commenting that you don't mention using a PPC Mac, only emulating a PPC system (on your 2015 MBPro (?) ) Is that correct - or do I have a wrong idea about what you have?

If you DO have a PPC Mac, which model do you have, and what operating system version are you using on that?

 

[Macbookprodude]

Both in fact.. I have a PowerBook G4 1ghz Titanium, now Titanium 1.4 as I overclocked it. Yes, I wanted to emulate older than Jaguar on it, and also MBP 2015 I have. Currently, the PB G4 Titanium is using Leopard 10.5.8 - the max.

 

[DeltaMac]

QEMU can emulate to before OS X, so you seem to be on the right path. I don't know what kind of luck you will have in providing libraries for a web browser that will work in both an ancient version of OS X (pre-Jaguar, or even Mac OS 9), and also work in Big Sur. Good luck on that!

 

[Macbookprodude]

QEMU can emulate to before OS X, so you seem to be on the right path. I don't know what kind of luck you will have in providing libraries for a web browser that will work in both an ancient version of OS X (pre-Jaguar, or even Mac OS 9), and also work in Big Sur. Good luck on that!

Well, the web browser would support Leopard(PPC) and also run on M1 as well.

 

[Macbookprodude]

The QEMU question pertained to running older version of OS X on my PowerBook G4 Titanium which I use for most everyday things, even youtube. I also overclocked it by changing out resistors and now it is overclocked to 1.42 at 166mhz bus.

 

[DeltaMac]

I think you would have to try QEMU. That supports older Mac OS systems. But, your PBG4 also can boot to Jaguar natively, so you could do your testing that way, and bypass the potential challenges of setting up and using a VM for your testing, at least with Jaguar.

 

[Macbookprodude]

Yes, I know it supports Jaguar, but never saw what Puma abd Cheetah looked like, though I was told that there really were no real differences between the 2. OS X got better starting with Jaguar.

 

[DeltaMac]

Yes, Jaguar was a good leap forward for OS X. Better support for printers, improved graphics support & performance. IMHO, made OS X mostly stable and useful.
Other than a personal victory, I can't believe there would be much to gain by doing anything with Cheetah, or Puma.
Many here seem to like Tiger the most, for the speed and efficient memory use.

 

[Macbookprodude]

True, Tiger will always be the best in that decade.

 

[dmccloud]

Well, the web browser would support Leopard(PPC) and also run on M1 as well.

The problem is that you would be simultaneously supporting severely out of date hardware (and operating systems) via a universal binary in addition to Apple Silicon. So much of the core OS has changed and evolved since PPC Macs were a thing (as have web standards) that you will literally be doing 2-3x the work in order to support both platforms.