PowerBook G3 Pismo Firmware 4.1.8 f5 ISSUE

[Tomoka]

Welcome everybody,

I have the following issue with the PowerBook G3 Pismo.
About 10+ years ago when I last booted up this machine I flashed the firmware to the 4.1.8 f5 which is known to be faulty and Apple removed it from their supported list and replaced it with the 4.1.8 version. The f5 was to indicate the final version but after experiencing not booting and battery and other power management issues it was revoked.

I can do pretty much anything with the machine except booting it either through DVD SuperDrive, HDD, or USB.
When I go to OF and type ls/dev I can see all the devices, but If I give the CD command for example it gives me an error that it can not control the drive.

Because I cannot boot from a CD there is no way to boot from CD and flash the firmware with this option.
I have bought an original Apple Power adapter (black - brand new), RAM 512MB, an HDD connector, and a logic board.
Every connector is correctly attached, and I remember the time when I flashed it it stopped booting up, so because my original YOYO adapter was destroyed I left it as it is. The HDD was analyzed in MACDRIVE 10 and it showed that it is a bootable healthy drive.

I can get into anything pretty much I just cannot get the machine to boot I have tried the reset-nvram, reset-all

Few things to list, it is the 500Mhz version.
The original battery it came with is fully charged and working fine.
The PRAM battery is original and charged.
The HDD is a 20GB one, original and it came with it, under Linux Mint with the HFS/HFS+ extension I can enter the drive and see what is on OS X Jaguar, the OS9.x is unavailable.
It is like the firmware as many others experienced it locks everything for whatever reason.
Interestingly I have read somewhere that a file should be deleted from the HDD can`t remember the name of it so the firmware can regenerate and boot.
Also, I thought or read everywhere that the firmware is installed on a logic board, and now that I bought a new one from a tech company and they tested it
it is hard to believe that they have sent me a faulty that is unable to boot from any of its devices.

I tried disconnecting the PRAM battery removing the main battery, holding the reset button in the back removing the power source and all.
It just won`t boot, and since I would like to use this machine as a music source in the future after replacing the sound card and the screen I need to have it booted. Maybe after I can do an SSD swap too.

Anybody with extensive understanding of OF or this computer, please help me.

 

[joevt]

What's the CD command? What does the error look like?

Can you type multi-boot boot in Open Firmware?

 

[Tomoka]

If I type multi-boot it takes me to boot manager from Open Firmware but no bootable device is showing, like; HDD, DVD, for example.
Now in Linux Mint, I managed to create a DVD with the firmware 4.1.8 ISO but because it is not being recognized I cannot boot from it. When I list the device tree and select the path to the CD drive as a boot device it accepts it, but when I try to boot from it it says that it can`t OPEN the device. I cannot eject the CD in it.

I can the three commands to reset Open Firmware and have the same thing; reset-nvram,set-default,reset-all

I bought a new motherboard and with the new one I also have the same issues, Chat GPT suggests that it cannot be the daughterboard as I would likely have trouble accessing Open Firmware or everything else like Boot Manager.
The last time I used it was when I flashed the 4.1.8 f5 and it stopped, so I left it sitting right after as my YoYo adapter died on me and didn`t bother.

The other interesting issue is the following;

The output RAM size 30783230 30303030 3030 from the printenv command in Open Firmware indicates the reported RAM size configuration in hexadecimal format. Let's break down what this means and how to interpret it:

Interpreting the RAM Size Output​

1. Hexadecimal Representation:
   • The hexadecimal values 30783230 30303030 3030 represent the RAM size in bytes.
   • Hexadecimal (base-16) is commonly used in low-level programming and system diagnostics.
2. Converting to Decimal:
   • To convert hexadecimal to decimal (base-10), you can use a calculator or an online converter.
   • Break down the hexadecimal value:
     • 30783230 (in hexadecimal) converts to approximately 813 MB in decimal.
     • 30303030 (in hexadecimal) converts to approximately 808080 bytes in decimal.
3. Total RAM Size:
   • Adding these values gives you a total RAM size of approximately 813 MB + 808080 bytes.

But I have one single RAM module installed; 512MB and it is brand new made for these computers.

 

[joevt]

If I type multi-boot it takes me to boot manager from Open Firmware but no bootable device is showing, like; HDD, DVD, for example.
Now in Linux Mint, I managed to create a DVD with the firmware 4.1.8 ISO but because it is not being recognized I cannot boot from it. When I list the device tree and select the path to the CD drive as a boot device it accepts it, but when I try to boot from it it says that it can`t OPEN the device. I cannot eject the CD in it.

I can the three commands to reset Open Firmware and have the same thing; reset-nvram,set-default,reset-all

I bought a new motherboard and with the new one I also have the same issues, Chat GPT suggests that it cannot be the daughterboard as I would likely have trouble accessing Open Firmware or everything else like Boot Manager.
The last time I used it was when I flashed the 4.1.8 f5 and it stopped, so I left it sitting right after as my YoYo adapter died on me and didn`t bother.

The other interesting issue is the following;

The output RAM size 30783230 30303030 3030 from the printenv command in Open Firmware indicates the reported RAM size configuration in hexadecimal format. Let's break down what this means and how to interpret it:

Interpreting the RAM Size Output​

...

But I have one single RAM module installed; 512MB and it is brand new made for these computers.

That's hex ASCII for 0x20000000 = 512MB.

xxd -p -r <<< "30783230 30303030 3030"
0x20000000

Do you have another Mac?

Can you boot the Pismo into FireWire Target Disk Mode?

Can you use the dir command in Open Firmware? Can you show a picture of the error message?

Can you link the 4.1.8 updater that you are trying to use?

Do you have any Mac OS CDs that weren't downloaded from the internet?

 

[Tomoka]

That's hex ASCII for 0x20000000 = 512MB.

xxd -p -r <<< "30783230 30303030 3030"
0x20000000

Do you have another Mac?
No, Unfortunately I don`t have another Mac.

Can you boot the Pismo into FireWire Target Disk Mode?
Yes, I can by holding the T down at boot.

Can you use the dir command in Open Firmware? Can you show a picture of the error message?
I`ll get back to you as I have launched a command that dumps memory and it has been running for an hour now.

Can you link the 4.1.8 updater that you are trying to use? https://www.macintoshrepository.org/33955-powerbook-firmware-update-4-1-8
I have downlaoded a Bin file from an archive and in Linux Mint I converted into ISO after creating a CUE file for it

Do you have any Mac OS CDs that weren't downloaded from the internet? No, unfortunately. But my DVD drive isn`t doing anything at all. It doesn`t respond to anything it is recognized in Dev / LS and can be assigned to boot from but when utilizing the command it says it cannot open.

I downloaded the MacOS 9/9.2/10.2.8 from the internet archive and closed the files before burning them.

Mac OS 9 9.2

Mac OS 9.x, based on Mac OS 8 was the final product based on the classic MacOS architecture. Like previous version, it lacks true protected memory or pre-emptive multitasking. MacOS 9 was abandoned in favor of of the Unix-ish NextStep/Openstep based Mac OS X.

winworldpc.com

 

[Tomoka]

0 > dev /rom ok
0 > ls

ff899d38: /boot-rom@fff00000
ff899f30: /macos

ff899d38 0 over - dump

I never think that there are so many lines in this firmware. Not doing anything special with it just tried the command since the computer wouldn`t do anything at all I was like sure let`s try this one too.

 

[joevt]

0 > dev /rom ok
0 > ls

ff899d38: /boot-rom@fff00000
ff899f30: /macos

ff899d38 0 over - dump

I never think that there are so many lines in this firmware. Not doing anything special with it just tried the command since the computer wouldn`t do anything at all I was like sure let`s try this one too.

ff899d38 is the address of the boot-rom device node in the Open Firmware dictionary.
The ROM has physical address 0xfff00000 and has size 0x100000 (1MiB).
So basically you are capturing 6,709,960 more bytes than necessary.
The dump command dumps 77 characters per 16 bytes.
So dumping 1MiB actually outputs 5,046,272 characters.
You're trying to dump 7,758,536 bytes, so that's 37,337,955 characters. If you're using telnet to transfer the bytes, then that should take 29 seconds (if telnet is 8 bits per byte) or 38 seconds (if telnet 10 bits per byte). Those numbers are probably not accounting for some overhead (ethernet, telnet protocol, etc). What is the max bandwidth of telnet over 10 Mbit Ethernet?

 

[Tomoka]

ff899d38 is the address of the boot-rom device node in the Open Firmware dictionary.
The ROM has physical address 0xfff00000 and has size 0x100000 (1MiB).
So basically you are capturing 6,709,960 more bytes than necessary.
The dump command dumps 77 characters per 16 bytes.
So dumping 1MiB actually outputs 5,046,272 characters.
You're trying to dump 7,758,536 bytes, so that's 37,337,955 characters. If you're using telnet to transfer the bytes, then that should take 29 seconds (if telnet is 8 bits per byte) or 38 seconds (if telnet 10 bits per byte). Those numbers are probably not accounting for some overhead (ethernet, telnet protocol, etc). What is the max bandwidth of telnet over 10 Mbit Ethernet?

It wasn't even connected to the internet. And, lasted all night and yesterday afternoon.

 

[Tomoka]

Can you use the dir command in Open Firmware? Can you show a picture of the error message?
can`t OPEN the DIR device ok

 

[joevt]

It wasn't even connected to the internet. And, lasted all night and yesterday afternoon.

What's the point of dumping the ROM to the screen if you have no way to capture it?

can`t OPEN the DIR device ok

Of course you need to enter a disk/partition path with the dir command.

Maybe learn more about Open Firmware by reading some other Open Firmware related threads:
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/the-open-firmware-wiki.2225024/
https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...l-work-in-a-beige-power-macintosh-g3.2303689/
https://68kmla.org/bb/index.php?threads/the-great-gazelle-pci-hack-thread-part-2.38360/

Then you can use that knowledge to capture more useful info for people to look at. For example, if you capture the ROM, then we can compare with another dump of the Pismo ROM to make sure they match.

Maybe you can access a USB disk? Then you could put the firmware in a file on a USB disk and load it into Open Firmware to do a Firmware update?
http://mac-classic.com/articles/downgrading-a-powermac-g4-mdd-firmware/
(don't use the firmware that is linked there. Instead, extract it from the 4.8.1 firmware update smi)

If you learn how to do telnet to Open Firmware, then it may be possible to load the firmware update using telnet instead of a disk.

telnet is useful because you can use it to capture the text. plus it's faster at displaying text.

 

[Tomoka]

I ordered a USB 2.0 to see if it can boot from it.
About this telnet option, I am not familiar with it but will look into it using Chat GPT.
Mainly I receive tips from Chat GPT when it comes to issues specifying device paths so it can generate commands for me,
Or provide troubleshooting tips.

Not sure what is it with this computer, I tried everything but the target mode or the USB.
Chat GPT suggested today early that the Boot Block on the HDD is somehow hot corrupted but if I remove the HDD from the machine and try to boot from a CD for example nothing happens even though the DVD drive is listed in devalias and can be assigned as boot device, but nothing happens, eject dvd doesn`t work. I tried a new logic board that I ordered and was supposed to be tested before left the facility the same issue persisted.

The HDD was analyzed in MACDRIVE 10 PRO and no errors were identified, it is a bootable healthy MacOS drive.
I even tried it with Disk Utility under Virtual Machine in Linux Mint and showed no error.
The HDD is accessible in Linux Mint and I can view files on it (under Jaguar-MAcOS 9 is not available)

And, everything works; Option+power gets me into boot manager, Option+CMD+P+R does what it is supposed to, T+power gets me to target mode, reset-nvram, set-defaults, reset-all all goes through.

This machine is driving me crazy.

 

[joevt]

Get a drive enclosure that can do FireWire 800 and USB 3.0. Maybe one of these:
https://eshop.macsales.com/item/OWC/MOTGS3U3/
FireWire is better for older Macs, especially in Mac OS 9 which only supports USB 1.1?

Install OCLP on your PC so you can run macOS. It would be easier to use that to diagnose some issues.
Does your PC have PCIe slots or Thunderbolt? If so, then maybe try adding a PCIe FireWire 800 card or a Thunderbolt to FireWire adapter (though it might be difficult to get Thunderbolt to work reliably on a hackintosh).

If you can access the drive in macOS in a VM, or if you can boot macOS with OCLP, then you can use the following script to dump info about the drive.
https://gist.github.com/joevt/a99e3af71343d8242e0078ab4af39b6c#file-dumpvols-sh-L719
Use this command:
sudo ./dumpvols.sh disk1 > dumpvols_1.txt 2>&1
(change disk1 to whatever disk you want to get the info for.

If you can connect a USB or FireWire drive in Open Firmware then you can load the PowerBook Firmware file and execute it as described at
http://mac-classic.com/articles/downgrading-a-powermac-g4-mdd-firmware/
but you may need to follow different instructions to get the prolonged beep. The "About PowerBook Firmware Update" document says:

4. After the computer has shut down, hold down the Command (Apple) key and Power button to start up your PowerBook.

5. Continue to hold down the Command key and Power button until you hear a long tone. Release the Command key and Power button when you hear the tone.

I would try without the Command key for the first try.

If you can't get a USB or FireWire disk to work, then we can discuss using telnet to load the firmware updater into Open Firmware.

 

[Tomoka]

Get a drive enclosure that can do FireWire 800 and USB 3.0. Maybe one of these:
https://eshop.macsales.com/item/OWC/MOTGS3U3/
FireWire is better for older Macs, especially in Mac OS 9 which only supports USB 1.1?

I used a USB to ATA - IDE cable to connect the drive to my Linux computer. I get it would I need to connect the drive through FireWire to PowerBook G3?

Install OCLP on your PC so you can run macOS. It would be easier to use that to diagnose some issues.
Does your PC have PCIe slots or Thunderbolt? If so, then maybe try adding a PCIe FireWire 800 card or a Thunderbolt to FireWire adapter (though it might be difficult to get Thunderbolt to work reliably on a hackintosh).

If you can access the drive in macOS in a VM, or if you can boot macOS with OCLP, then you can use the following script to dump info about the drive.

For me, Quick EMU was installed to run MacOS Monterey, and could access the HDD through the cable when I ran Disk Utility and came back with a healthy drive message. So, I`m gonna try to use that. The drive by the way showed up in MacOS.

https://gist.github.com/joevt/a99e3af71343d8242e0078ab4af39b6c#file-dumpvols-sh-L719
Use this command:
sudo ./dumpvols.sh disk1 > dumpvols_1.txt 2>&1
(change disk1 to whatever disk you want to get the info for.

If you can connect a USB or FireWire drive in Open Firmware then you can load the PowerBook Firmware file and execute it as described at
http://mac-classic.com/articles/downgrading-a-powermac-g4-mdd-firmware/
but you may need to follow different instructions to get the prolonged beep. The "About PowerBook Firmware Update" document says:

I would try without the Command key for the first try.

If you can't get a USB or FireWire disk to work, then we can discuss using telnet to load the firmware updater into Open Firmware.

I`ll wait for my USB to arrive and proceed with your version of solving this issue. However, I still don`t understand how can I face the same trouble with two logic boards. Also, I don`t understand why nobody can tell where the open Firmware chip is located. Some say it is on the logic board but don`t know exactly where. Chat GPT 40 can`t tell, all that is saying is that the chip is somewhere near the DC board or the power management board where the battery/DVD drive is plugged in. The reason why I need to know is that if the OF chip (IC) is located on either of those, then everything changes because when I disassembled the Powerbook I noticed two intersting things. The first was that the HDD connector to the logic board had one pin pinned down to the bottom. I fixed that one with a knife successfully. My other finding is a bit more of an issue but based on what I found it shouldn`t be one. The DC board which connects to the logic board has a large hole in the plastic shim where those pins go into, and two of them were badly melted and bent. I also managed to fix those pins but that connector is still with a hole on it. However, chat GPT says that the board is either working or not, so Since I have my battery charged and the laptop running and have sound and everything it shouldn`t be an issue. The description of the IC chip where the OF is installed though identical to the chips located on these boards, and the power management board has a very well-protected under-metal casing seated on there. Thinking that I might need to change the DC board just to be sure it isn`t the one with the issue. I find it intersting that both logic board has the same firmware installed and both of them are malfunctioning to the point where everything works but booting from devices.

Thoughts are welcomed.