Problems with Orico USB3 Card and LaCie Rugged SSD

[kitkats]

I posted this in another thread but have had no replies so…

I have an Early 2009 Mac Pro 4,1 which I've recently upgraded with a powered Orico PFU3-2P - in a 4x slot, power comes from nearest SATA connector via an adaptor.

I'm using a LaCie Rugged SSD drive to work from. But with the LaCie connected over USB3 to the Orico, sooner or later the drive will hang and the Finder becomes more-or-less unusable until I pull the plug on the LaCie. It won't even shut down the Mac until the USB cable is pulled. Last time the hang somehow tripped a second drive (connected via Firewire) to hang as well, until the USB3 was pulled.

By 'hang' I mean there's a spinning disc in the bottom right corner of the finder window and a beachball when I mouse over it.

I have tested the LaCie over USB3 and Thunderbolt on my MacBook Pro and it behaves normally (it's not just the drive) . I've tested an older external drive (Non SSD) over the USB3 on the Mac Pro and that behaves normally (its not just the Orico) . I've installed a new OS X on another internal drive and the problem persisted (it's not just my OS or OS drive). The problem seems to be unique to the combo of the Orico and the LaCie SSD.

I was really hoping to streamline my workflow with this external SSD, as I work across the two machines a LOT. If anyone can shed any light on what might be causing the hangs, I'd be very grateful.

Thanks.

 

[h9826790]

How about if you connect it through a powered USB 3 hub, still the same?

 

[kitkats]

How about if you connect it through a powered USB 3 hub, still the same?

Do you mean an external hub with external power? The Orico is powered by a cable from a SATA connector to Molex adaptor - coming from a drive bay

 

[Riwam]

I posted this in another thread but have had no replies so…

I have an Early 2009 Mac Pro 4,1 which I've recently upgraded with a powered Orico PFU3-2P - in a 4x slot, power comes from nearest SATA connector via an adaptor.

I'm using a LaCie Rugged SSD drive to work from. But with the LaCie connected over USB3 to the Orico, sooner or later the drive will hang and the Finder becomes more-or-less unusable until I pull the plug on the LaCie. It won't even shut down the Mac until the USB cable is pulled. Last time the hang somehow tripped a second drive (connected via Firewire) to hang as well, until the USB3 was pulled.

By 'hang' I mean there's a spinning disc in the bottom right corner of the finder window and a beachball when I mouse over it.

I have tested the LaCie over USB3 and Thunderbolt on my MacBook Pro and it behaves normally (it's not just the drive) . I've tested an older external drive (Non SSD) over the USB3 on the Mac Pro and that behaves normally (its not just the Orico) . I've installed a new OS X on another internal drive and the problem persisted (it's not just my OS or OS drive). The problem seems to be unique to the combo of the Orico and the LaCie SSD.

I was really hoping to streamline my workflow with this external SSD, as I work across the two machines a LOT. If anyone can shed any light on what might be causing the hangs, I'd be very grateful.

Thanks.

---------------------
As far as I know LaCie USB3 Drives use a proprietary USB3 driver. My own past experience is not at all your case, since you do not use a LaCie USB3 card, but for me it was the begin of a nightmare when I installed a LaCie PCIe card in a MP 5.1 to use a LaCie 2 HDs external USB3 enclosure for TimeMachine. It made my BT mouse crazy (and myself!) and affected other BT devices. Even if in my case both, the card and the external drive were from LaCie (and I repeatedly installed the LaCie driver) it was an awful experience. If I would have again a cMP I would not repeat my mistake to try to use USB3 at any price and instead would do my best to be satisfied with the natives USB2 and FW800 of the MP.
But of course you have an entirely different USB3 card, so that my experience might not be of much use to you.

 

[h9826790]

Do you mean an external hub with external power? The Orico is powered by a cable from a SATA connector to Molex adaptor - coming from a drive bay

Yes, I mean an external hub with it's own power.

I understand that your card is properly powered form the SATA port (I have the Orico PME-4U card). I know it's not power issue, in fact, your card may able to work without connecting the Molex cable.

Just in case that your SSD perform a little bit different through a USB hub, that may be a work around. And for proper testing, better to use a self powered hub.

 

[kitkats]

Yes, I mean an external hub with it's own power.

I understand that your card is properly powered form the SATA port (I have the Orico PME-4U card). I know it's not power issue, in fact, your card may able to work without connecting the Molex cable.

Just in case that your SSD perform a little bit different through a USB hub, that may be a work around. And for proper testing, better to use a self powered hub.

I see. I don't have any hubs, but could do with one for my MBP actually - I'll have a look now. If you have any recommendations let me know, thanks.

 

[SpecFoto]

I am having similar issues with my Orico USB3 card. There are no markings on it to tell you the model number, it is a non-powered 2 port card about 1 year old. Never used the USB 3 much until recently when I bought 2 Seagate 2 TB slim drives (actually Samsung Spinpoint M9T drives inside). At first they worked OK, but then 1 port stopped working on the card. Having the same hang issues now, mostly when I try to transfer any files above 15 GB at one time. Finder freezes and won't allow ejecting of the drive, the only solution is to pull the plug and reboot. I have reset the card, moved it to another slot, but the problems continue.


So today I ordered the Inateck KT4004 card so highly recommended in the thread you mentioned. At any rate, the transfer speeds were never that fast with my card, just about the same as my FW800 drives, or most times, a lot less. Hopefully the Inateck will allow for faster transfer speeds

 

[crjackson2134]

So today I ordered the Inateck KT4004 card so highly recommended in the thread you mentioned. At any rate, the transfer speeds were never that fast with my card, just about the same as my FW800 drives, or most times, a lot less. Hopefully the Inateck will allow for faster transfer speeds

Let us know how this turns out. There are now several good options available for USB 3.

I could be way off base here, but considering these are 2TB USB powered drives, I wonder and half suspect that the current draw from these drives damaged the Orico card over time. You stated the card worked well unless the file transfer exceeded 15GB, and then it would fail. This (to me) suggests that the large transfer duration combined with high current draw, may have overheated a component and caused the failure.

I'm no expert, and may be totally wrong, but that's my impression, and if it's correct, you may run into the same problem on the Inateck card (it's only rated to power a 1TB USB powered drive). If you need to power 2 of these drives continuously I would suggest you get a good Powered USB 3 HUB for the drives to draw power from or look into the new Sonnet card. It's claim to fame is high current output abilities.

Anway, that's my 2¢ worth of input.

 

[SpecFoto]

Let us know how this turns out. There are now several good options available for USB 3.

I could be way off base here, but considering these are 2TB USB powered drives, I wonder and half suspect that the current draw from these drives damaged the Orico card over time. You stated the card worked well unless the file transfer exceeded 15GB, and then it would fail. This (to me) suggests that the large transfer duration combined with high current draw, may have overheated a component and caused the failure.
.

Thank you crjackson2134 for your insightful repy. I think you are correct as to what the problem may be. The Orico 3B card manual said you don't need to hook up any additional power with Macs, yet.... it has a 4 pin Molex connector on the back of the card. My 5,1 MP has a SSD startup drive in the 2nd optical bay and I can not see any additional power connectors in the 5,1. Are you aware of any? And as far as your Rocket 1144 C card, I looked it up and do not see any power connectors for it, do you have these problems?

Actually my Orico card ran OK with a 2TB WD My Passport Ultra for about 6 months last year. It was only when I got the 2TB Seagate Slim drives (with the Samsung Spinpoint 9mm drives inside ) at the end of the year that problem started. The Seagate drive work fine on my other Macs with USB 3, as does the WD. The WD is about twice the thickness of the Seagate drive enclosures and is somewhat unique, it has a molded in USB3 connector plate as part of the drive, it is not a Sata endplate with a plastic plug in convertor to USB3, like the Seagates or other drives. Maybe being designed this way it draws less power and is the reason it works with the Orico card?

Maybe unrelated, but I have now bought 3 of the Seagate 2TB drives, and stripped 2 of them out of their enclosures. ($40 cheaper than bare drives???) They were put into a new Guardian Maximus Mini dual bay RAID enclosure in early Dec. However that enclosure has never worked properly, (while it sees both 2TB drives, it does not show them on Macs as Raid 0 4TB, but only as 2.2TB, even with the >2TB switch on), and has been sent back to OWC twice. It is now supposedly fixed and on the way back to me, but that is what they said the first time too. (OWC quality issues, a whole nother thread)

 

[crjackson2134]

Thank you crjackson2134 for your insightful repy. I think you are correct as to what the problem may be. The Orico 3B card manual said you don't need to hook up any additional power with Macs, yet.... it has a 4 pin Molex connector on the back of the card. My 5,1 MP has a SSD startup drive in the 2nd optical bay and I can not see any additional power connectors in the 5,1. Are you aware of any? And as far as your Rocket 1144 C card, I looked it up and do not see any power connectors for it, do you have these problems?

The only way (short of installing a supplemental psu) to provide additional power is with a splitter cable. I wouldn't mess with it myself but many others have done so without problems. The RocketU 1144C is designed to work without additional power. It's an excellent card that has never been a problem.

Actually my Orico card ran OK with a 2TB WD My Passport Ultra for about 6 months last year. It was only when I got the 2TB Seagate Slim drives (with the Samsung Spinpoint 9mm drives inside ) at the end of the year that problem started. The Seagate drive work fine on my other Macs with USB 3, as does the WD. The WD is about twice the thickness of the Seagate drive enclosures and is somewhat unique, it has a molded in USB3 connector plate as part of the drive, it is not a Sata endplate with a plastic plug in convertor to USB3, like the Seagates or other drives. Maybe being designed this way it draws less power and is the reason it works with the Orico card?

I have 2 USB 3.0 buss powered drives that are connected 24/7 but they are only 1TB each. One of the drives is connected to the Inateck KT4004 card (like the one you ordered) and the other to the RocketU 1144C. I've never had a problem with setup. I have a multitude of large drives 4TB connected to other USB ports on both the RocketU and the Inateck. Those drives are all 3.5" drives and have their own power bricks.

Maybe unrelated, but I have now bought 3 of the Seagate 2TB drives, and stripped 2 of them out of their enclosures. ($40 cheaper than bare drives???) They were put into a new Guardian Maximus Mini dual bay RAID enclosure in early Dec. However that enclosure has never worked properly, (while it sees both 2TB drives, it does not show them on Macs as Raid 0 4TB, but only as 2.2TB, even with the >2TB switch on), and has been sent back to OWC twice. It is now supposedly fixed and on the way back to me, but that is what they said the first time too. (OWC quality issues, a whole nother thread)

If you are going to use multiple high capacity drives that draw power from the USB port, I suggest you get a quality USB hub that can provide the power. In fact, if it were me, I wouldn't connect the suspect drives to the other Macs (except for momentary use) without a powered USB hub, but that's just me.

Since you've already ordered the Inateck card, I'd test it out and if it works well for you, get a powered USB hub for peace of mind that you don't damage your new card.

I have both the RocketU and the Inateck cards installed in my 5.1. The only trouble I've ever had with these cards are the infamous "Disk not properly ejected" notification upon waking from sleep, and I have one particular SeagateBackup+ drive that is less than dependable at times when connected to the RocketU. That is the only drive I've ever had a problem with on the RocketU. Seagate Tech. support told me that the enclosure electronics aren't fully compatible with the RocketU's ASMedia chipset, so that drive gets used on the Inateck card when needed. That drive is manily used for storing movies in my media center so it's a non-issue. Every other drive and device I own works perfectly on the RocketU.

 

[SpecFoto]

Thanks for the info. The dual drive Raid is externally powered, but the single 2 Tb drives are not, only a USB 3 port unfortunately. Wish they were FW 800 with all the problems they have been.

 

[kitkats]

Well, I'm not saying you're wrong about the power draw damaging the cards but I don't think my experience is backing that up.

I ordered a powered hub and the problems with my LaCie SSD are persisting, disappointingly.

I barely used the Orico card at all before I added the SATA-to-Molex power. And the problems I'm having have been utterly unique to this SSD (Which I would imagine draws less power than a spinning disk) - a LaCie USB3 non-SSD rugged drive I have has always worked just fine.

I wish LaCie would offer to look at some system logs or something but they have been pretty placatory and useless so far. They can always blame the card.

 

[crjackson2134]

It was a shot... I have the same Orico card (not in use at the moment) and it has never impressed me. (slowest of many cards tested) I just had a feeling about it and replaced it rather quickly. I think the card you have may already be faulty or damaged and nothing will overcome that.

My suggestion about the powered hub is to protect your next card from a similar fate. I would guess that the failure (if there is one) would occur over time rather than instantly detectable. Again, it's just one of many possibilities, but it's the first that came to mind for me.