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Promise Pegasus to support 14 Mac Pros

R

rezatayebi

macrumors regular
Original poster
Apr 5, 2007
110
0
We`re adding 14 mac pros to our pipeline for 3D rendering and compositing. This is a a huge number for us since right now we only have 2 mac pros.
I`m looking for a good storage box to support all of these machines. Something to keep all our 3D data on.

PROMISE VTrak x30 Series 16TB (8x 2TB SATA) 3U RAID Subsystem :
http://store.apple.com/us/product/H4945LL/A?fnode=5f&p=1
Seems like a good option. But it`s expensive and I`m not sure if we need something that powerful.

The other much cheaper options are things like Promise Pegasus 12TB (6x2TB) R6 RAID :
http://store.apple.com/us/product/H5187VC/A/Promise_Pegasus_R6_RAID_System?fnode=5f&p=3
Which are much cheaper.

Please help me decide :)
 
rezatayebi said:
With fibre card.
Click to expand...

Without TB, youd be wasting money on the Pegaus stuff...Justbout of interest, can't you wait until the Pro is refreshed and includes Thunderbolt ports?

I'm using an R4 using thunderbolt on my iMac 27" and it's fast. But as you say it's damned expensive too. Thunderbolt enclosures by other manufactureres are coming now too...But if you can wait, I would.
 
comatory said:
How do you want to connect it to Mac Pros if it doesn't have TB port?
Click to expand...

I kind of hope that was sarcasm. The raid linked doesn't support thunderbolt at all.

Doh... just noted he linked the other one as well. If a shop is buying that many mac pros, why would they even consider a consumer grade raid solution? There are others available. That little desktop raid is in no way designed to handle 14 computers, and it's likely that it lacks some of the features required for such a pipeline if different people will access the same data or referenced versions of it from the same storage raid. I wouldn't limit your choices to these two models.
 
Last edited:
Macman45 said:
Without TB, youd be wasting money on the Pegaus stuff...Justbout of interest, can't you wait until the Pro is refreshed and includes Thunderbolt ports?

I'm using an R4 using thunderbolt on my iMac 27" and it's fast. But as you say it's damned expensive too. Thunderbolt enclosures by other manufactureres are coming now too...But if you can wait, I would.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately we can`t. We need new machines by September and I really doubt Mac Pros would be updated by then.

----------
thekev said:
I kind of hope that was sarcasm. The raid linked doesn't support thunderbolt at all.

Doh... just noted he linked the other one as well. If a shop is buying that many mac pros, why would they even consider a consumer grade raid solution? There are others available. That little desktop raid is in no way designed to handle 14 computers, and it's likely that it lacks some of the features required for such a pipeline if different people will access the same data or referenced versions of it from the same storage raid. I wouldn't limit your choices to these two models.
Click to expand...

What would you suggest ?
 
AlexMaximus said:
Hi,

this solution might be too small for your need, however have a short look at this solution. It has two SAS ports and works with Atto cards in the Mac Pros. Just a thought..

http://www.stardom.com.tw/sohoraid_sr8_feature.html

http://www.stardom.com.tw/sohoraid_sr8_appliance.html

It maxes out at 8 x 3TB.

They also have this one here:

http://www.stardom.com.tw/sohotank_st8_feature.html

It might be worth a look..
Click to expand...
How will that connect to 14 mac pros at the same time?
 
theSeb said:
How will that connect to 14 mac pros at the same time?
Click to expand...

The Stardom only acts as a Storage Array, somewhat similar as the Pegasus system would. Of course you would need the controlling infrastructure via fiber-channel. Then it would look like this:
 

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AlexMaximus said:
The Stardom only acts as a Storage Array, somewhat similar as the Pegasus system would. Of course you would need the controlling infrastructure via fiber-channel. Then it would look like this:
Click to expand...

But the Stardom box is a DAS with an SAS interface. How will it be connected to a Fibre Channel switch? Am I missing something here?

The OP is not very clear on what he actually needs. Does he really needs a SAN? A DAS can only work if it's connected directly to one of the 14 Mac Pros and then the data is shared between the other machines via an Ethernet network. This might not give the speeds necessary, but it may come close if one uses link aggregation and an appropriate Ethernet switch capable of 802.3ad. Will the files be accessed at the same time?

How would this particular Stardom unit cope with such a workload since it's clearly designed for a SOHO environment and not one where 14 machines are accessing the same data at the same time. Is this a valid workflow in the op's case? I don't know. More questions than answers here, I am afraid.
 
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The way I was thinking about it was that the storage box would be connected to one of Mac Pros via fiber, and then data would be shared from that Mac pro via ethernet network. 14 machines will be accessing the same data at the same time.
I`m not sure how much this kind of setup will cost and I don`t know the right hardwares to buy.
 
rezatayebi said:
The way I was thinking about it was that the storage box would be connected to one of Mac Pros via fiber, and then data would be shared from that Mac pro via ethernet network. 14 machines will be accessing the same data at the same time.
I`m not sure how much this kind of setup will cost and I don`t know the right hardwares to buy.
Click to expand...

How big is the data that you're working on at the same time and what kind of throughput is necessary? Do you know what kind of transfer speeds are actually necessary during your workflow? I think you'll be better off contacting a company that specialises in this kind of stuff and talking your requirements through. Call a couple and get some quotes.
 
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theSeb said:
How big is the data that you're working on at the same time and what kind of throughput is necessary? Do you know what kind of transfer speeds are actually necessary during your workflow? I think you'll be better off contacting a company that specialises in this kind of stuff and talking your requirements through. Call a couple and get some quotes.
Click to expand...

Well the compositing team will be working on 4K videos and image sequences. So I think we need a really fast network.
I have contacted some specialists to get help from.
 
rezatayebi said:
What would you suggest ?
Click to expand...

I think you're going to end up talking with a consultant on this one. There are many details, and your solution has to be able to handle multiple IO requests. I don't know if any kind of check in/out or referencing system needs to be set up for such files. The smaller solution you linked is really designed for someone who wants to hook up their macbook pro. Beyond that take a look at the reviews. For an office with 12 workstations connected and potentially heavy IO requests, you will want something better than a consumer grade solution. It might be appropriate for a freelancer, but that is about it. Also note the reviews on it.
 
With a Qty. of 14 3D Monkey suites - Don't go cheap on storage and backup! The OT on the first failure will bankrupt your business.

~my2¢
 
rezatayebi said:
We`re adding 14 mac pros to our pipeline for 3D rendering and compositing. This is a a huge number for us since right now we only have 2 mac pros.
Click to expand...

Are these 10-13 Mac Pros in a farm/grid/cluster or 12-13 more users working on independent inputs and/or outputs ?

If the renders read/write data only has longer intervals it is a much different problem than 13 users poking at different sets of files.



The other much cheaper options are things like Promise Pegasus 12TB (6x2TB) R6 RAID :
http://store.apple.com/us/product/H5187VC/A/Promise_Pegasus_R6_RAID_System?fnode=5f&p=3
Which are much cheaper.
Click to expand...

If looking for a DAS (direct attached storage) then solutions more along these lines

http://www.sansdigital.com/towerraid-/index.php

One of the 8 bay models. You could have two, three disk RAID 5 volumes with two hot spares hooked to a Mac Pro.
 
There have been a lot of consumer solutions presented for what really is an intensive professional requirement. Pegasus, Drobo etc. will absolutely not be able to handle this, they are best used attached to single workstations or as nearline backups.

14 users accessing 4K files... that is some serious throughput. You are going to need an array of 16+ drives bare minimum to keep up with the i/o requests and data rates required. Some of those will need to be used for redundancy and hot spares as your chance of disk failure gets higher the more disks you have.

I'm sorry to say that your storage solution alone is going to probably cost at least as much as all 14 of your mac pros!
 
JavaTheHut said:
With a Qty. of 14 3D Monkey suites - Don't go cheap on storage and backup! The OT on the first failure will bankrupt your business.

~my2¢
Click to expand...

I have to strongly agree here, buy the fastest most reliable storage you can, I can totally recommend Promise....I know the prices are tough to hack, but it's your work on the line here...I have TM backups, as well as an archival array, and a "Real Time" work array...The speed is there, and I can work on video in real time using the Pegasus system. I am probably going to have to add in an R8 later this year. I am hoping that as these devices become more mainstream, that prices might drop a littly, but you do get exaxtly what you pay for.
 
Thanks a lot for your help.
I'm starting to realize the storage we need is going to cost more than I thought at first.
These machines will be used as both workstations and render nodes.
Our budget is $75000 to buy hardware. The maximom we can spend on storage is $15000. I hope we could something good with that.
 
DJenkins said:
There have been a lot of consumer solutions presented for what really is an intensive professional requirement. Pegasus, Drobo etc. will absolutely not be able to handle this, they are best used attached to single workstations or as nearline backups.

14 users accessing 4K files... that is some serious throughput. You are going to need an array of 16+ drives bare minimum to keep up with the i/o requests and data rates required. Some of those will need to be used for redundancy and hot spares as your chance of disk failure gets higher the more disks you have.

I'm sorry to say that your storage solution alone is going to probably cost at least as much as all 14 of your mac pros!
Click to expand...

I agree.
 
rezatayebi said:
Thanks a lot for your help.
I'm starting to realize the storage we need is going to cost more than I thought at first.
These machines will be used as both workstations and render nodes.
Our budget is $75000 to buy hardware. The maximom we can spend on storage is $15000. I hope we could something good with that.
Click to expand...

I'd talk one to one to Pegasus...If you want a contact for them (it's germany but I think my guy could still help you out) drop me a PM and I'll give you his email address and contact details...I reckon you should be able to negotiate some kind of deal here.
 
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