Psystar's 54 Page Answer to Apple's Lawsuit with Counterclaim for Violation of ...

[Sun Baked]

Well Psystar's answer has showed up finally on justia.com

The 54 pages are here.

ANSWER to Complaint with Jury Demand (pdf) COUNTERCLAIM FOR VIOLATIONS OF THE SHERMAN, CLAYTON, AND CARTWRIGHT ACTS, AND STATE AND COMMON UNFAIR COMPETITION LAW against Apple Inc. byPsystar Corporation. (Springer, Colby) (Filed on 8/28/2008)

Think this might work if you don't want to download the pdf.

http://docs.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/california/candce/3:2008cv03251/204881/12/

 

[CWallace]

Well they deny modifying the code, so I guess it will be up to Apple's legal software forensics team to determine the truth of those claims.

 

[Sun Baked]

The also deny that the Mac OS flavors constitute "an original work of authorship" "constituting copyrightable material" -- ouch.

 

[xUKHCx]

Page 26 is where it gets interesting (seriously)

The First Claim for Relief of this Counterclaim is brought pursuant to 15 U.S.C. § 1 (the Sherman Act) to seek redress for APPLE’s illegal tying of the Mac OS to Apple-Labeled Computer Hardware Systems as those products and markets are defined below.

The Second Claim for Relief of this Counterclaim is brought pursuant to 15 U.S.C. § 2 (the Sherman Act) to seek redress for APPLE’s attempts to maintain its monopoly and control prices in the Apple-Labeled Computer Hardware Systems submarket and to destroy competition in the Mac OS Capable Computer Hardware Systems market as those markets (and submarkets) are defined below.

*

The Third Claim for Relief of this Counterclaim is brought pursuant to 15 U.S.C. § 14 (the Clayton Act) to seek redress for APPLE’s illegal requirements of its customers to exclusively deal with APPLE as it pertains to the Mac OS and Apple-Labeled Computer Hardware Systems in domestic, interstate commerce.

*When you break down industries to such levels (Apple-Labeled Computer Hardware Systems submarket) surely they all have a monopoly in some sense.

If somehow this goes through surely it will be the end of apple as we know it.

 

[nick9191]

What a load...

PSYSTAR, on information and belief, alleges that APPLE likewise misuses its copyrights with respect to prohibiting Mac OS Capable Computer Hardware System manufacturers from manufacturing and selling computer hardware systems that would allow for installation, use, and running of the Mac OS.

PSYSTAR, on information and belief, alleges that unless restrained by the Court, APPLE will continue to attempt to maintain its monopoly power in the Apple-Labeled Computer Hardware Systems submarket to the exclusion of other manufactures including manufacturers of Mac OS Capable Computer Hardware Systems by and through anticompetitive and unreasonably exclusionary conduct including but not limited to those allegations set forth in the First Claim for Relief above as well as the misuse of its copyrights.

PSYSTAR, as a result of APPLE’s illicit behavior, has been damaged and requests compensatory and punitive relief as otherwise governed by the California Civil Code in addition to a declaration as to APPLE’s illicit behavior.

 

[GoCubsGo]

I seriously want to see how Apple proves they modified the code.

As for this somehow proving or introducing the idea that Apple is a monopoly, I'm not sure that's going to happen any time soon.

 

[macenforcer]

oh man, the nails in the coffin.

 

[NT1440]

what?! apple has a monopoly on apple branded computers!?!?

 

[decksnap]

"Apple-Labeled Computer Hardware Systems submarket"


I'll have some of those mushrooms.

 

[nanofrog]

I seriously want to see how Apple proves they modified the code.

So do I.

As for this somehow proving or introducing the idea that Apple is a monopoly, I'm not sure that's going to happen any time soon.

I doubt they will pull this one off.

It will be interesting to see the end results though.
Anyone have a realistic estimate how long the proceedings will run?

 

[NT1440]

So do I.

I doubt they will pull this one off.

It will be interesting to see the end results though.
Anyone have a realistic estimate how long the proceedings will run?

realistically, this will probably drag on for a year or two until pystar is either bankrupt (good riddance) or by some outrageous decision, they win

 

[Shadow]

what?! apple has a monopoly on apple branded computers!?!?

Yeah, dur, cos, like, Sony doesn't have a monopoly on PS3s...

 

[bbotte]

So do I.

I doubt they will pull this one off.

It will be interesting to see the end results though.
Anyone have a realistic estimate how long the proceedings will run?

Long enough that Prystar will be backrupt from the legal fees.

 

[IJ Reilly]

It's the Sgt. Shutlz defense. I know nussing!

They make a number of arguments which are ludicrous on their face (and will probably be struck down immediately by a judge), but I think the key bit of silliness is this thing they call the "Mac OS Capable Computer Hardware Systems market." Of course this market is complete whole cloth. In antitrust law, the definition of the market is critical -- and you can't just invent one out of convenience to your argument.

 

[NT1440]

Yeah, dur, cos, like, Sony doesn't have a monopoly on PS3s...

no no no, thats completely different. U forgot people love to bash apple, sony on the other hand can do no wrong!


what is wrong with people where they really try to pull that crap in court, and for some reason our judicial system allows all these rediculous lawsuits

 

[gnasher729]

I seriously want to see how Apple proves they modified the code.

It is called "disovery". They start by taking depositions from all employees. In a deposition, you have the choice: Either you tell the truth, or you go to jail if it is proven that you are lying. They ask for all documentation about the installation. If any documentation has disappeared that is taken as proof that anything damaging for Psystar that Apple thinks could have been there actually was there. Then Apple asks them for one of the machines with an "unmodifed" copy of MacOS X. They have to supply it. If there is anything modified, Apple will easily find it.

 

[nanofrog]

realistically, this will probably drag on for a year or two until pystar is either bankrupt (good riddance) or by some outrageous decision, they win

Seems a reasonable time frame. Thanks.

It is called "disovery". They start by taking depositions from all employees. In a deposition, you have the choice: Either you tell the truth, or you go to jail if it is proven that you are lying. They ask for all documentation about the installation. If any documentation has disappeared that is taken as proof that anything damaging for Psystar that Apple thinks could have been there actually was there. Then Apple asks them for one of the machines with an "unmodifed" copy of MacOS X. They have to supply it. If there is anything modified, Apple will easily find it.

Wouldn't it be in Apple's best interest to have acquired one of Psystar's machines for a forensic examination?

 

[pdjudd]

It is called "disovery".

Thats exactly what will happen. They subpoena all the employees and all the details about the installation. The notion of discovery is a great thing. They just need to get one employee to confess that modification occurred or they just have to show that modification occurred - something that Apple could easily prove - heck, Psystars own restore CD would prove it since a regular Leopard disc could not install on a blank open computer. Compare the two - Psyssar will have to reveal the source code because they deal with Apple's IP and cannot claim a proprietary product - unless they want to claim its a derivative work which is illegal as well.

Wouldn't it be in Apple's best interest to have acquired one of Psystar's machines for a forensic examination?

I have no doubt that Apple already has one. They probably will get another via a subpoena during discovery to hand over to a third party to perform the forensics to testify. Third party experts will be more damning for Psystar and will support Apple's claims.

 

[NT1440]

Seems a reasonable time frame. Thanks.

you know i think this is the first time ive ever been thanked for anything on this forum

*tear*

i think i need a minute alone....




but in all honestly my statement on how long this takes was just a generalization of how long rediculous court cases ive heard of have gone on. I have to say i dont really have ne evidence to support it.

 

[Sun Baked]

It is called "disovery". They start by taking depositions from all employees. In a deposition, you have the choice: Either you tell the truth, or you go to jail if it is proven that you are lying. They ask for all documentation about the installation. If any documentation has disappeared that is taken as proof that anything damaging for Psystar that Apple thinks could have been there actually was there. Then Apple asks them for one of the machines with an "unmodifed" copy of MacOS X. They have to supply it. If there is anything modified, Apple will easily find it.

They are also entitled to some of the Restore DVDs, since you know Apple purchased quite a few of the machines to test and dissect.

So they likely can easily get the ... Psystar OpenComputing Leopard Restore Disk listed on their site 8/12/2008

If they refuse to provide them Apple has a claim as a harmed consumer.

 

[IJ Reilly]

Reading further on in this in the counterclaim, I've decided that its real purpose is comedy. Beginning on page 32 they purport so prove the claim that the Mac is a separate and distinct market over which Apple has illegal monopoly powers. The gist of this argument is that Apple has marketed the Mac successfully as a product and people like it. That's pretty much it!

 

[pdjudd]

Reading further on in this in the counterclaim, I've decided that its real purpose is comedy. Beginning on page 32 they purport so prove the claim that the Mac is a separate and distinct market over which Apple has illegal monopoly powers. The gist of this argument is that Apple has marketed the Mac successfully as a product and people like it. That's pretty much it!

Proof enough that writing a legal document and presenting it to a Judge doesn't give it any credence. It sounds like legal diarrhea. None of the claims that I have seen Psystar make has any bearing in fact or in Law.

 

[ZiggyPastorius]

I'd be interested in seeing a video or a transcript of the lawyers going at it.

"Judge, my client, PSYSTAR, has a question, for all of YOU!

...Have you ever...loved? Has anyone ever told you...no? Have you ever felt alienated because something you want...so much...just can't be obtained? Well, that, my friends, is what we are experiencing today. Apple, Inc. is a monster! With their viciously-maintained monopoly of the Apple-branded Macintosh computers capable of running the Mac OS monopoly, and their monopoly on the Mac OS itself...PSYSTAR is left to do nothing...but cry. Apple is like the bully on the playground, viciously telling you he won't scoop you some of his superman ice cream...only because your bowl is made of porcelain, which he is allergic to. Thank you."

*tear*

 

[IJ Reilly]

Proof enough that writing a legal document and presenting it to a Judge doesn't give it any credence. It sounds like legal diarrhea. None of the claims that I have seen Psystar make has any bearing in fact or in Law.

By the same reasoning no doubt, antitrust claims could be filed against Toyota for successfully making and marketing Toyota cars. By not allowing anyone else to make Toyota cars they are clearly thwarting competition in the Toyota car market.

 

[NT1440]

Proof enough that writing a legal document and presenting it to a Judge doesn't give it any credence. It sounds like legal diarrhea. None of the claims that I have seen Psystar make has any bearing in fact or in Law.

yet this is more or less the norm in our legal system, nothing but frivilous lawsuits