Questions about Backing Up

[mac_in_tosh]

I have been using Superduper for years to make bootable backups. I recently updated to Big Sur and as everything looked good I decided to do a backup of my Mac Book Pro. The app didn’t seem to be working right and eventually I found out that it doesn’t work with Big Sur. In the interim I did a Time Machine backup but realize that’s only for data. In the past I’ve used the Superduper backup with Migration Assistant after getting new Macs.

So now I’m wondering - what exactly is the advantage to having a bootable backup especially with regards to Migration Assistant? What do you lose by not having the bootable copy? Will Migration Assistant set up the various accounts that were on the old Mac, with Mail etc working as before or is a full copy needed for that?

I also see that Carbon Copy Cloner now says their app will make a bootable clone in Big Sur. Anyone have success with that?

Thanks.

 

[Apple_Robert]

I am not really concerned about a bootable backup. I can wipe my drive and be back up and fully running in 15 minutes. I do have Big Sur installed on an external drive for emergency use.

If you use CCC or Arq to migrate files over, you should still be good to go. I haven''t used SD so, won't comment on that product.

 

[njvm]

@mac_in_tosh - in case you did not see there is a workaround for Big Sur but it does not not back up the OS. I still use this as like @Apple_Robert I am not that fussed about having a bootable backup.

Shirt Pocket Watch

 

[mac_in_tosh]

@mac_in_tosh - in case you did not see there is a workaround for Big Sur but it does not not back up the OS. I still use this as like @Apple_Robert I am not that fussed about having a bootable backup.

Shirt Pocket Watch

I saw that but it looked too complicated for me.

 

[mac_in_tosh]

I am not really concerned about a bootable backup. I can wipe my drive and be back up and fully running in 15 minutes. I do have Big Sur installed on an external drive for emergency use.

If you use CCC or Arq to migrate files over, you should still be good to go. I haven''t used SP so, won't comment on that product.

What do you use? What do you mean "back up and fully running?" Are you re-installing apps, setting preferences, etc.?

I'm trying to understand what is the advantage, if any, to having a bootable backup (data + system) vs just data? I just checked what's in the Time Machine backup I made earlier today and the Application folder is there and there is a System folder, etc. So what exactly can I do with this backup, say if I have to get a new machine and want to replicate the current one as best as possible?

 

[Apple_Robert]

What do you use? What do you mean "back up and fully running?" Are you re-installing apps, setting preferences, etc.?

I'm trying to understand what is the advantage, if any, to having a bootable backup (data + system) vs just data? I just checked what's in the Time Machine backup I made earlier today and the Application folder is there and there is a System folder, etc. So what exactly can I do with this backup, say if I have to get a new machine and want to replicate the current one as best as possible?

Back up and fully running means apps and settings are as they should be, and there is nothing more I need to really do.

With Big Sur, you have to install the OS first and then use the program of your choice to restore third party apps and settings.

 

[mac_in_tosh]

Back up and fully running means apps and settings are as they should be, and there is nothing more I need to really do.

With Big Sur, you have to install the OS first and then use the program of your choice to restore third party apps and settings.

So does a Time Machine backup restore apps and settings? I guess I'm hung up on what exactly "data" means when people say TM just does a backup of data. Thanks.

 

[Apple_Robert]

So does a Time Machine backup restore apps and settings? I guess I'm hung up on what exactly "data" means when people say TM just does a backup of data. Thanks.

Take a look at the Apple support document, including the hyperlinks at the bottom of said document. I think it will answer your questions.

Back up your files with Time Machine on Mac

Use Time Machine to back up your entire Mac, including music, photos, and documents.

support.apple.com

 

[Bandaman]

Carbon Copy Cloner is amazing. I highly recommend it. Been using it for years to make bootable backups.

 

[BrianBaughn]

I can wipe my drive and be back up and fully running in 15 minutes.

You can't have much beyond stock apps on that thing!

 

[Apple_Robert]

You can't have much beyond stock apps on that thing!

I have a lot on my M1.

 

[mystery hill]

Where are you all keeping your offsite backups?

 

[Fishrrman]

I'm not certain (you'd have to check bombich's page to be sure), but...

The OP has an Intel-based Mac, right?

CCC can make a bootable clone of Big Sur on an Intel-based Mac.

What it cannot do is create a bootable clone of Big Sur on m1 series Macs.

I believe Apple doesn't want the "secure system volume" to be clone-able on upcoming Macs for security reasons.

And... for this reason... I don't foresee CCC working (as originally intended) with m-series Macs in the future.

This will only happen if Apple decides to "unlock and share some of their secrets" with Mr. Bombich, and I don't believe they're going to do that...

 

[mystery hill]

CCC - Apple System Restore M1 Macs

In the current shipping version of macOS Big Sur (11.2.3), Apple's ASR utility cannot replicate the startup disk in an M1-based Mac. Attempting to do so results in an error:

'Apple System Restore Tool': Source volume format not yet supported in this version of macOS

Apple is aware of the problem and is working towards resolving it for a future update to macOS.

 

[mac_in_tosh]

Carbon Copy Cloner is amazing. I highly recommend it. Been using it for years to make bootable backups.

There are limitations as to what CCC can do now with Big Sur and also with Apple

I'm not certain (you'd have to check bombich's page to be sure), but...

The OP has an Intel-based Mac, right?

CCC can make a bootable clone of Big Sur on an Intel-based Mac.

What it cannot do is create a bootable clone of Big Sur on m1 series Macs.

Yes, Intel-based.

I read somewhere - although it's possible that I'm misinterpreting things - that the CCC bootable clone of Big Sur is a one-time thing, i.e. can't make incremental backups.

 

[mystery hill]

I read somewhere

It’s in the link I posted above.

 

[mac_in_tosh]

Thanks all the the helpful discussion. I had some confusion about the need for a bootable backup. My current understanding is as follows. Please correct me if wrong:

Let's say I have a Time Machine backup and I get a new Mac. If I run Migration Assistant with the TM backup, then the new Mac will have all of the accounts that were on the old machine, each account will have Mail, etc. set up as before, the desktops will be as before, the Safari bookmarks will be there, Contacts, applications, etc. The only differences with previous SuperDuper backups is that the TM backup is not bootable, that is, I couldn't attach the external drive with the backup to another Mac and boot it up, and of course I can't restore a previous OS from the backup.

 

[pmiles]

I'm not a fan of "push here dummy" software. My motto is, install everything fresh, because that is the point at which nothing is f'd up... it's only later that we f things up "customizing" our installs.

What does that require? Original software... downloadable from the vendor site, saved as an executable on an external drive, or on disc if the system still has a disc drive. Writing down your configuration information for your ISP's email server and any login credentials for your various software. Saving a copy of your bookmarks, address book, calendar, music/video files, et al to external drive. Some of which is already stored in the iCloud by default.

It really doesn't take that much time to do and always results in a clean fresh install devoid of all the crap that gets saved with whole disc copying. The best part about installing stuff this way is that it allows the OS to decide how to best install the software in its ecosystem, not be forced to replicate an install for a version of the OS that may have had different ideas on the subject. Remember, if the OS is constantly evolving, it's file structure is constantly morphing, which means, a OSX Sierra clone of everything isn't really set up ideally for a OSX Big Sur setup. Let the OS install the software just as it would if you bought the machine brand new instead of making it translate between the two... and potentially screwing that up... which migrations seem to be amply successful at screwing up.

Been doing it this way since day 1 of using computers... and it has never failed me yet.

 

[mystery hill]

Writing down your configuration information for your ISP's email server

I hope there aren’t too many people still using ISP mail.

 

[zorinlynx]

I am not really concerned about a bootable backup. I can wipe my drive and be back up and fully running in 15 minutes. I do have Big Sur installed on an external drive for emergency use.

If you use CCC or Arq to migrate files over, you should still be good to go. I haven''t used SP so, won't comment on that product.

Yeah. Truth is with SIP and now read-only, segregated boot volumes, the days of needing bootable backups are over.

You needed bootable backups back then because installed software would modify the system, or you'd have to tweak system files to get things working. These days system files are read-only, and your changes and modifications end up on the read-write Data volume, so you only need to back up the latter.

To have a fully restorable system without having to use Internet restore, you pretty much just need the following with Big Sur:

- A bootable install USB drive that works on your Mac (which you can make from the Big Sur installer)
- A time machine backup of your Data volume.

That's it. Yeah, bootable backups are nice, but they're overkill these days. Just have at least two working Time Machine backups; keep one offsite and rotate them periodically and you should be okay.

 

[Bandaman]

Yeah. Truth is with SIP and now read-only, segregated boot volumes, the days of needing bootable backups are over.

You needed bootable backups back then because installed software would modify the system, or you'd have to tweak system files to get things working. These days system files are read-only, and your changes and modifications end up on the read-write Data volume, so you only need to back up the latter.

To have a fully restorable system without having to use Internet restore, you pretty much just need the following with Big Sur:

- A bootable install USB drive that works on your Mac (which you can make from the Big Sur installer)
- A time machine backup of your Data volume.

That's it. Yeah, bootable backups are nice, but they're overkill these days. Just have at least two working Time Machine backups; keep one offsite and rotate them periodically and you should be okay.

I've never had Time Machine fail on me and it's free. Being able to restore from it it very convenient.

 

[ginhb]

I might be stuck in an outdated mindset.

Bootable clones appealed to me as a way to easily restore my system if an OS update or new software installation unexpectedly corrupts something in the OS and your computer won't boot, or starts behaving very erratically when it does.

I always update the clone before installing any software or performing an OS update. I also do incremental updates regularly to keep local documents and projects updated on the external clone. It's a very quick process, I use a registered version of SuperDuper and I'm still on Catalina. (I also make additional copies of critical documents outside of the clone.)

Does that sound like I'm unnecessarily relying on a bootable clone in the event of an un-bootable computer? I liked the idea of a single-process to easily restore it to it's previous state.