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RaphaZ

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Dec 2, 2021
258
79
Hello Community!

Can you help me here?

Days ago, when I was still using my 2013 MBA (8/128), I was getting this numbers:
Captura de ecrã 2022-06-15, às 20.52.50.png


Using in the first days the M1 MBA (8/256), for the same workflow, I'm getting this:

Captura de ecrã 2022-08-02, às 18.58.06.png



What is going on with my RAM utilization? How can I fix this? I think this isn't normal.

Thanks!
 

Andrea Filippini

macrumors 6502
Jun 27, 2020
394
339
Tuscany, Italy
Hello Community!

Can you help me here?

Days ago, when I was still using my 2013 MBA (8/128), I was getting this numbers:
View attachment 2038198

Using in the first days the M1 MBA (8/256), for the same workflow, I'm getting this:

View attachment 2038197


What is going on with my RAM utilization? How can I fix this? I think this isn't normal.

Thanks!
Do you run the apps on the same OS version?
In the M1 do you use Rosetta to run the apps?
You are using basically the same amount of memory: in first scenario you have more cache memory (faster access), in the second scenario you consume directly more memory space. The total amount is the same.
Until you have memory pressure (swap used), you are fine.
 
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RaphaZ

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Dec 2, 2021
258
79
Do you run the apps on the same OS version?
In the M1 do you use Rosetta to run the apps?
I did the files migration (with the native Migration Assistant, if I'm correct) and started using the new MacBook.
I don't see any Rosetta.
I just use Excel, Word, Safari and PDF preview.
 

Andrea Filippini

macrumors 6502
Jun 27, 2020
394
339
Tuscany, Italy
I did the files migration (with the native Migration Assistant, if I'm correct) and started using the new MacBook.
I don't see any Rosetta.
I just use Excel, Word, Safari and PDF preview.
Maybe it can be the Office suite (Word, Excel, etc.) on Silicon (several Apple users complain issues with MS Teams and generally with MS apps) but until you haven't memory pressure, you're ok.
You have just only less memory cache used, total amount of memory is the same.
 
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RaphaZ

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Dec 2, 2021
258
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Maybe it can be the Office suite (Word, Excel, etc.) on Silicon (several Apple users complain issues with MS Teams and generally with MS apps) but until you haven't memory pressure, you're ok.
You have just only less memory cache used, total amount of memory is the same.
Ok, thank you, but...I don't like this. I mean, 7 years separate these Macs. How do I know I won't have problems in the future?
 
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Toutou

macrumors 65816
Jan 6, 2015
1,083
1,579
Prague, Czech Republic
What is going on with my RAM utilization? How can I fix this? I think this isn't normal.
Everything looks normal to me. Even on the very same machine, numbers reported by Activity Monitor will look differently immediately after startup and after running for a few days. Also AFAIK some of the macOS internals work a little differently between x86 and arm64, so comparing the raw numbers is pretty pointless.
 
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RaphaZ

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Dec 2, 2021
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Everything looks normal to me. Even on the very same machine, numbers reported by Activity Monitor will look differently immediately after startup and after running for a few days. Also AFAIK some of the macOS internals work a little differently between x86 and arm64, so comparing the raw numbers is pretty pointless.
For me it is strange that a newer Mac uses more RAM to do the same operations. Shouldn't it be more efficient RAM-wise?
 
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wilberforce

macrumors 68030
Aug 15, 2020
2,932
3,210
SF Bay Area
For me it is strange that a newer Mac uses more RAM to do the same operations. Shouldn't it be more efficient RAM-wise?
My 16GB M1 machine consistently "uses" more memory than on my 32GB Intel machine, despite having less total RAM (for light workloads, that is). Part of the reason I have suggested get 16GB on M1/M2 if budget allows.
 
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Andrea Filippini

macrumors 6502
Jun 27, 2020
394
339
Tuscany, Italy
Ok, thank you, but...I don't like this. I mean, 7 years separate these Macs. How do I know I won't have problems in the future?
New M1 machines have everything soldered onboard so the question about "problems in the future" is pretty obvious.
You can't replace obsolete and damaged parts so the lifespan of the machine is limited.
About future memory tasks, in my personal opinion, you can't afford them with only 8 GB of memory.
In 2022 8 GB of soldered onboard memory can be ok only for basic usage (web browsing, office suite, spotify, zoom, streaming television).
 

aevan

macrumors 601
Feb 5, 2015
4,542
7,240
Serbia
Hello Community!

Can you help me here?

Days ago, when I was still using my 2013 MBA (8/128), I was getting this numbers:
View attachment 2038198

Using in the first days the M1 MBA (8/256), for the same workflow, I'm getting this:

View attachment 2038197


What is going on with my RAM utilization? How can I fix this? I think this isn't normal.

Thanks!

If you're not feeling any slowdowns, I wouldn't worry about it. Memory management is a complex thing, and macOS is good at managing it.

You shouldn't be looking at Activity Monitor, just use your computer.

If you're having slowdowns, on the other hand - than it could be some background process or something like that.
 

wilberforce

macrumors 68030
Aug 15, 2020
2,932
3,210
SF Bay Area
If you're not feeling any slowdowns, I wouldn't worry about it. Memory management is a complex thing, and macOS is good at managing it.

You shouldn't be looking at Activity Monitor, just use your computer.

If you're having slowdowns, on the other hand - than it could be some background process or something like that.
Good point - a new machine will often be spotlight indexing (mds_stores for example).

One good reason to worry about it is if the OP has the option to return it for a model with more RAM, in which case it is worthwhile to investigate how much pressure there is on the memory.

If this is not an option, then I agree, don't worry about and just use it.
 
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LuisN

macrumors 6502a
Mar 30, 2013
738
688
Torres Vedras, Portugal
Hello Community!

Can you help me here?

Days ago, when I was still using my 2013 MBA (8/128), I was getting this numbers:
View attachment 2038198

Using in the first days the M1 MBA (8/256), for the same workflow, I'm getting this:

View attachment 2038197


What is going on with my RAM utilization? How can I fix this? I think this isn't normal.

Thanks!
That's perfectly normal. Memory management in macOS and other OSs is automatic. Está fino. Está perfeito, é não mexer.
 
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RaphaZ

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Dec 2, 2021
258
79
It's not really using more RAM, not in the sense you're implying. Modern memory management is a complex topic and the raw numbers often do more harm than good.

The memory pressure graph is your friend. As long as it stays in green, you're fine.
@Toutou: 5 minutes ago, after seeing videos. Check this out:

Captura de ecrã 2022-08-02, às 21.57.16.png
 
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RaphaZ

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Dec 2, 2021
258
79
New M1 machines have everything soldered onboard so the question about "problems in the future" is pretty obvious.
You can't replace obsolete and damaged parts so the lifespan of the machine is limited.
About future memory tasks, in my personal opinion, you can't afford them with only 8 GB of memory.
In 2022 8 GB of soldered onboard memory can be ok only for basic usage (web browsing, office suite, spotify, zoom, streaming television).
Ok, got that. But my old Intel could do it.
 
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RaphaZ

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Dec 2, 2021
258
79
If you're not feeling any slowdowns, I wouldn't worry about it. Memory management is a complex thing, and macOS is good at managing it.

You shouldn't be looking at Activity Monitor, just use your computer.

If you're having slowdowns, on the other hand - than it could be some background process or something like that.
Ok. For now, I have 0 slowdowns.
Good point - a new machine will often be spotlight indexing (mds_stores for example).

One good reason to worry about it is if the OP has the option to return it for a model with more RAM, in which case it is worthwhile to investigate how much pressure there is on the memory.

If this is not an option, then I agree, don't worry about and just use it.
Yes, there are some background processes. Should I do something about it?
I don't have the option to return it. It was second-handed. The Mac has warranty until 2024.
 

chabig

macrumors G4
Sep 6, 2002
11,460
9,326
Is the machine working? That's all that matters. You (the user) aren't supposed to manage or be concerned with memory. That's the job of the operating system. Different operating systems manage things differently and it's not feasible to make direct comparisons. Consider how many little parameters the engine computer in your car is managing and yet you drive from place to place not thinking about it. That should be your goal with the computer. Just use it to do the things you want to do and forget about the details of how it is getting done.
 

theorist9

macrumors 68040
May 28, 2015
3,883
3,067
I believe there were reports of a memory leak in Monterey; it was supposed to be fixed by 12.5, but maybe not. As others have said, there's probably a lot of background stuff going on that could be using more memory. If you're curious, you could do a screenshot of Activity Monitor's top memory users when you have the high RAM use and when you don't to compare.

But for now you could just try rebooting your computer and then going back to your normal workflow and seeing what memory usage looks like (Macs seem to benefit from regular rebooting anyways—I'd suggest weekly reboots as part of normal hygiene). If mem usage goes down, then either you've shut down the memory leaks (which, if present, build up with time after booting), or you've shut down the legit background processes that were running (in which case the mem usage will go back up when they restart).

The other thing you can look at besides memory pressure is swap. If swap is zero, it means the computer has plenty of memory and doesn't have to resort to using disk space in place of RAM.

I was going to make a sarcastic comment (directed not at you, but at those on other threads who say there's no need for RAM upgradeability in consumer laptops and desktops) by saying something along the lines of: As your workflows evolve, should you find you do indeed need more RAM, you can just upgrade...oh, wait...

Actually, come to think of it, if are still within the 14-day return period, and you can test the machine with the heaviest possible workflow you think you might use, and find you do need more RAM, you might want to consider returning it and upgrading it. OTOH, if you find your current RAM is fine, then no worries....
 
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RaphaZ

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Dec 2, 2021
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Is the machine working? That's all that matters. You (the user) aren't supposed to manage or be concerned with memory. That's the job of the operating system. Different operating systems manage things differently and it's not feasible to make direct comparisons. Consider how many little parameters the engine computer in your car is managing and yet you drive from place to place not thinking about it. That should be your goal with the computer. Just use it to do the things you want to do and forget about the details of how it is getting done.
Yes, it is working. Thanks for the good words. As a user, I’m just curious, and I dont want to think Ive made a bad buy.

I believe there were reports of a memory leak in Monterey; it was supposed to be fixed by 12.5, but maybe not. As others have said, there's probably a lot of background stuff going on that could be using more memory. If you're curious, you could do a screenshot of Activity Monitor's top memory users when you have the high RAM use and when you don't to compare.

But for now you could just try rebooting your computer and then going back to your normal workflow and seeing what memory usage looks like (Macs seem to benefit from regular rebooting anyways—I'd suggest weekly reboots as part of normal hygiene). If mem usage goes down, then either you've shut down the memory leaks (which, if present, build up with time after booting), or you've shut down the legit background processes that were running (in which case the mem usage will go back up when they restart).

The other thing you can look at besides memory pressure is swap. If swap is zero, it means the computer has plenty of memory and doesn't have to resort to using disk space in place of RAM.

I was going to make a sarcastic comment (directed not at you, but at those on other threads who say there's no need for RAM upgradeability in consumer laptops and desktops) by saying something along the lines of: As your workflows evolve, should you find you do indeed need more RAM, you can just upgrade...oh, wait...

Actually, come to think of it, if are still within the 14-day return period, and you can test the machine with the heaviest possible workflow you think you might use, and find you do need more RAM, you might want to consider returning it and upgrading it. OTOH, if you find your current RAM is fine, then no worries....
Thanks. I’ll check if I have an OS update. I always turn off the Mac, so everyday it starts fresh new. That’s what you mean by reboot, right? Concerning RAM usage, some apps do appear with high values, like Safari and window server (dont know what is this).

I’ll check swap memory. Thanks! But if it has a lot of swap memory, what should I do?

Your sarcastic comment is the core of my curisosity. Should the RAM pressure be so much high, if my Intel kept those values real low? I’m really curious about this.

Unfortunately I cant return the Mac, it was bought as a second handed machine. It has warranty until 2024, I ran a diagnosis with no errors detected.
 
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chabig

macrumors G4
Sep 6, 2002
11,460
9,326
There is nothing wrong with using swap memory. All modern operating systems do it and it's normal. I doubt you can find a Mac using zero swap.

Vejo que seu mac está usando português. Estou tentando aprender portugues. Seu inglês é muito bom!
 
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chengengaun

macrumors 6502
Feb 7, 2012
371
854
Perhaps my earlier write up is a useful reference here:

It seems that your usage is pretty normal and 16GB would handle it fine. The high RAM usage is an inherent feature of macOS's memory management system which I attempt to describe below, do correct me if I am wrong.

macOS (whose kernel is derived from Mach kernel) features "a fully integrated virtual memory system" that is always on. The virtual memory system comprises the physical RAM itself (the expensive ones) and drive storage (also expensive but much cheaper). The memory paging scheme maximises system performance by looking at app profiles and memory usage pattern, then preemptively loads pages (memory blocks) which the apps might use. This usage pattern can be built up over time as you use the app, or the app developers can specify it.

The paging system is configured such that it loads and retains pages in memory. Pages that are recently accessed are marked as active, otherwise they become inactive. When more memory is required by apps and there are no longer free memory, inactive pages are removed to make way for new active ones. The removal can be a complete purge, or they may be compressed or swapped. The exception is wired memory which is required by the kernel and its data structure, and cannot be paged out. This arrangement maximises system performance since loading data into memory takes much longer than paging existing ones in memory. Hence the adage "unused memory is wasted memory".

The memory pressure chart in Activity Monitor is the summary of the above interactions. Activity Monitor can indicate "high memory usage" but low on memory pressure, simply because of the qualities described above. Memory pressure turns yellow or red when macOS cannot efficiently use memory (because of high swap/compression-decompression caused by lack of RAM).

I was looking into this to understand my own use case. I use R/Python to wrangle data for data science purposes, which can run into hundreds of GBs. That surely overwhelms the 64GB of RAM on my M1 Max isn't it? However, the operations run fine (just takes a while). This is because most of the data stays on the disk and only a portion of them are operated upon by R (hence marked as active) at any one time. Nonetheless if I look at Activity Monitor, it will indicate R memory usage as 200+GB, but the memory pressure is yellow. It is also interesting to see the spikes in memory pressure into red as certain calculations are being performed, or lookups being matched, so understanding this helps in code optimisation exercises - e.g. deciding when to chunk datasets/operations or use RDBMS's. After the script runs successfully, memory usage will remain high even after explicit object removal and garbage collection commands (i.e. tell R/macOS that the pages are no longer required). When other apps request for pages, R's memory usage will go down as macOS purges the inactive memory to make way for other apps.

Hope that helps!
 
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RaphaZ

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Dec 2, 2021
258
79
There is nothing wrong with using swap memory. All modern operating systems do it and it's normal. I doubt you can find a Mac using zero swap.

Vejo que seu mac está usando português. Estou tentando aprender portugues. Seu inglês é muito bom!
Thanks mate! O teu português está no bom caminho, keep going!

Perhaps my earlier write up is a useful reference here:

Wow, Thanks! It summarizes very well some of the processes. In your opinion, I shouldnt mind with these numbers (shown in the OP)?
 

ArkSingularity

macrumors 6502a
Mar 5, 2022
928
1,130
Memory management is a complex topic. It's analogous to desk space at a workspace/office, it is much more noticeable when you don't have enough than it is when you have a surplus. It is in your Mac's best interest (for performance) to try to utilize as much RAM as it can out of the RAM that is available, so it is not uncommon to see workloads use a surprisingly large amount of memory when there is a surplus of available RAM.

Out of everything you'll have in RAM, there are basically three categories:

1) Stuff that is actively being used (and should stay in RAM, the CPU needs it and needs it often)
2) Stuff that programs allocated, but isn't being used very often. This is what Mac OS starts with when it begins to swap/compress memory. (Think code for menus or sections of an app that you never went through, or tabs in a browser that you haven't visited for hours. Quite a lot of memory typically falls under this category and can be swapped very easily with almost no negative impact to performance).
3) Cached data (stuff that isn't actually needed, Mac OS keeps it in free memory "just in case").

Mac OS' activity monitor shows you how much data is actually cached, so you'll see how much memory falls under categories 1 and 2 together under "memory used" and then cached memory separately. What Activity Monitor doesn't show you is a breakdown of how much memory is actually being actively used vs. data that is infrequently accessed. It might show 7GB of memory "in use" - but this doesn't actually give you a good idea of how much of that is actually important to keep in RAM for performance. Much of that might very well be very inactive memory that can easily be swapped with virtually no negative impact to performance (especially on newer versions of Mac OS, where the OS itself and its services tend to be very happy to allocate larger amounts of memory)

Memory pressure is the best way to really reliably get an idea on Activity Monitor. if it's in the green, you have plenty of free memory (regardless of how much is "in use" by the numbers). Yellow means that Mac OS has begun to swap and/or compress more of your memory, but that it still has enough RAM to keep your actual actively used data in RAM (and thus there is usually a fairly minimal impact to performance). Red is when your Mac is actually running out of RAM. If your pressure graph is in the red, Mac OS is swapping and/or compressing important stuff (and this is when your computer starts to grind to a halt and feel like it's a tabletop box from the 90s).

In my experience, Monterey has used more RAM than previous versions of Mac OS, but it doesn't seem to have any noticeable affect on memory pressure once the Mac is actually put under heavier workloads. The OS is happy to allocate large amounts of RAM, but this doesn't mean that it's actually actively being used. Mac OS simply starts swapping out what hasn't been accessed for a while, which frees up memory for your actual workloads. My Catalina and Monterey macs both perform about the same under load (Monterey actually performs a little better in some cases), so I wouldn't worry about it too much as long as your memory pressure isn't in the red.
 
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chengengaun

macrumors 6502
Feb 7, 2012
371
854
Wow, Thanks! It summarizes very well some of the processes. In your opinion, I shouldnt mind with these numbers (shown in the OP)?
I don’t think you should be concerned, they looked fine to me. There were other points raised in other similar discussions elsewhere, e.g. how unified memory works, its effects on video memory usage and graphical objects, but that’s for curiosity and not suggesting there’s a problem (there are probably more advantages).
 
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theorist9

macrumors 68040
May 28, 2015
3,883
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There is nothing wrong with using swap memory. All modern operating systems do it and it's normal. I doubt you can find a Mac using zero swap.

Vejo que seu mac está usando português. Estou tentando aprender portugues. Seu inglês é muito bom!
My 2014 MBP, with 16 GB of RAM, frequently used swap, and that was because I regularly ran out of memory. And the latter was generally associated with more wait time/reduced responsiveness. My 2019 iMac, which has 32 GB of RAM, almost never uses swap (I've seen non-zero swap only once, and that's when I was doing a calculation that required more memory than the machine had available).
 
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