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Apple Music Real experience... what does spatial bring to the table?
- Thread starter Act3
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Spatial audio is basically surround sound. So it brings that to the table. What artists choose to do with it will be extremely varied. The reason "Atmos" is special here is Atmos is a modern way of encoding surround sound type audio (basically 3D 360º positional sound) that lets the sound system decide exactly how it should "present" the sound. In old surround sound, you basically got to encode 6 channels of audio and have no real idea if that makes sense for the actual sound system in use. Atmos lets the sound system adapt, so if you have headphones it can adapt the audio based on spatial simulation algorithms like what Apple does. But if you have a high end home theater with 10+ speakers arranged correctly Atmos will sound amazing and correct on that as well all with the same original data.
So how much difference is there? Well that's going to depend on how you are listening. I have tried a variety of songs in several venues including AirPods Pro, AirPods Max and critically, a 5.1.2 Atmos enabled home theater system with hi resolution speakers and vertical capabilities, basically a "complete" basic Atmos setup.
So what's the verdict? If I had to assign some kind of relative improvement let's say based on percentages where going from mono to stere was a 400% increase, I'd say that with headphones of any kind of Airpods, the increase from basic stereo to spatial audio is maybe a 50-80% increase for most songs with 100-150% increase for those who did a great job mastering spatially.
But, the Atmos home theater setup is a whole different story. That's easily a 200% or more increase on any even remotely decently mastered song I've tried so far. It's such a huge boost in enjoyability for listening to pure music on my home theater setup, with no need to ask my receiver to fake channels or any of that crap and to top it off, the best mastered stuff I've heard so far really uses the positioning including verticality. It's really making me wish some of my favorite "older" music would get treated with a high quality mastering in this format. I can imagine some amazing aural experiences with Pink Floyd for example, or even Garbage, like, how amazing Vow could sound on this setup? The potential so great.
Surround encoded music has existed for decades but it has always been niche and rarely been worth the inconvenience, often requiring SACD or Blu-ray players with special codec support and just being generally annoying for minimal improvement. This is something far better, and far more adaptable to whatever your sound system is capable of.
I have to believe that Eddy Cue's excitement about this format came from hearing high quality examples on a true Atmos system, not a simulated one. It makes a big difference.
So how much difference is there? Well that's going to depend on how you are listening. I have tried a variety of songs in several venues including AirPods Pro, AirPods Max and critically, a 5.1.2 Atmos enabled home theater system with hi resolution speakers and vertical capabilities, basically a "complete" basic Atmos setup.
So what's the verdict? If I had to assign some kind of relative improvement let's say based on percentages where going from mono to stere was a 400% increase, I'd say that with headphones of any kind of Airpods, the increase from basic stereo to spatial audio is maybe a 50-80% increase for most songs with 100-150% increase for those who did a great job mastering spatially.
But, the Atmos home theater setup is a whole different story. That's easily a 200% or more increase on any even remotely decently mastered song I've tried so far. It's such a huge boost in enjoyability for listening to pure music on my home theater setup, with no need to ask my receiver to fake channels or any of that crap and to top it off, the best mastered stuff I've heard so far really uses the positioning including verticality. It's really making me wish some of my favorite "older" music would get treated with a high quality mastering in this format. I can imagine some amazing aural experiences with Pink Floyd for example, or even Garbage, like, how amazing Vow could sound on this setup? The potential so great.
Surround encoded music has existed for decades but it has always been niche and rarely been worth the inconvenience, often requiring SACD or Blu-ray players with special codec support and just being generally annoying for minimal improvement. This is something far better, and far more adaptable to whatever your sound system is capable of.
I have to believe that Eddy Cue's excitement about this format came from hearing high quality examples on a true Atmos system, not a simulated one. It makes a big difference.
Basically this I’m in the same boat with a properly calibrated 5.2.2 system properly mastered Atmos songs sound AMAZING! Through headphones this effect is greatly reduced, you get a little more width and space but nothing like you get with a proper home theatre, not even the expensive AirPods max could hope to recreate that.
So here's a question on my understanding of Dolby Atmos vs Apple's spacial audio..
Atmos is Dolby's technology for object-based positional audio. To over-simplify, sound engineers can position audio elements (objects) like they're placing furniture in a room. And Atmos takes that positional information and presents it to the listener based on the listening environment they're in: how many speakers you've got, where they are, or if you're using headphones - in a way that best achieves the sound designers intent.
Apple's spacial audio is built on the technology of Dolby Atmos, but adds an interactive element to it through the head tracking of AirPods Pro and AirPods Max. With these, your position relative to your device can be tracked. Since Atmos knows the position of the audio objects, and your device your head position, spacial audio can adjust the audio mix in realtime so that what sound in front you sounds in back of you when you physically turn around, for example.
This is my understanding, and both are quite cool. The confusing part is that Apple uses these terms in tandem, but I don't think they are the same, and the listening experience can be quite different for listeners. For instance, I have regular AirPods which don't have head tracking. So "spacial audio" doesn't really exist for me, it's an Atmos mix-down to fixed position stereo. Depending on the how the album was mixed for Atmos, I get varied results. Sometimes the original stereo version still sounds much better. Other times there's not much of a discernible difference. But I imagine it could be a very different experience for those with spacial audio compatible AirPods where the music actually changes as they move.
So even though my phone and AirPods are listed as compatible with Atmos, I'm not sure what it's doing for me in regards to music listening. Am I misunderstanding something?
EDIT: A helpful thread just popped to the top of this forum section. Looks like spacial audio with head tracking in music isn't coming until iOS 15 anyway. It's currently just in video content. Perhaps the term "spacial audio" is just something Apple uses as a descriptor for Atmos.
Atmos is Dolby's technology for object-based positional audio. To over-simplify, sound engineers can position audio elements (objects) like they're placing furniture in a room. And Atmos takes that positional information and presents it to the listener based on the listening environment they're in: how many speakers you've got, where they are, or if you're using headphones - in a way that best achieves the sound designers intent.
Apple's spacial audio is built on the technology of Dolby Atmos, but adds an interactive element to it through the head tracking of AirPods Pro and AirPods Max. With these, your position relative to your device can be tracked. Since Atmos knows the position of the audio objects, and your device your head position, spacial audio can adjust the audio mix in realtime so that what sound in front you sounds in back of you when you physically turn around, for example.
This is my understanding, and both are quite cool. The confusing part is that Apple uses these terms in tandem, but I don't think they are the same, and the listening experience can be quite different for listeners. For instance, I have regular AirPods which don't have head tracking. So "spacial audio" doesn't really exist for me, it's an Atmos mix-down to fixed position stereo. Depending on the how the album was mixed for Atmos, I get varied results. Sometimes the original stereo version still sounds much better. Other times there's not much of a discernible difference. But I imagine it could be a very different experience for those with spacial audio compatible AirPods where the music actually changes as they move.
So even though my phone and AirPods are listed as compatible with Atmos, I'm not sure what it's doing for me in regards to music listening. Am I misunderstanding something?
EDIT: A helpful thread just popped to the top of this forum section. Looks like spacial audio with head tracking in music isn't coming until iOS 15 anyway. It's currently just in video content. Perhaps the term "spacial audio" is just something Apple uses as a descriptor for Atmos.
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I’m listening using both an Apple TV 4K hooked up to an ATMOS speaker setup and my headphones Sony WH-1000XM3.
On the Apple TV the difference is very noticeable and really feels like the music is surrounding you and filling the space all around you. Different aspects of the track are more clearly brought out. However I’m still not a fan of how everything sounds echoey. I wouldn’t use it as my first choice of how to listen to music
On my phone with headphones I think it makes the mix sound very odd. The vocals sound too low and far away based on the track and I feel the music loses the punch of many aspects. I feel bass and punch is lost. So I’ve disabled it on my phone. It feels like a gimmick to me personally. But maybe I’m just used to and enjoy stereo audio for my music listening.
After listening to a few tracks I’m not sold yet.
On the Apple TV the difference is very noticeable and really feels like the music is surrounding you and filling the space all around you. Different aspects of the track are more clearly brought out. However I’m still not a fan of how everything sounds echoey. I wouldn’t use it as my first choice of how to listen to music
On my phone with headphones I think it makes the mix sound very odd. The vocals sound too low and far away based on the track and I feel the music loses the punch of many aspects. I feel bass and punch is lost. So I’ve disabled it on my phone. It feels like a gimmick to me personally. But maybe I’m just used to and enjoy stereo audio for my music listening.
After listening to a few tracks I’m not sold yet.
I am trying it on ATV 4K too and not getting Atmos streaming. My receiver is saying it is two channels stereo. However, Tidal on the same system streams it as Atmos. Any idea?
The only thing I could suggest is I am connected straight through my receiver instead of my tv then to the receiver.
Also have you tried rebooting your Apple TV?
If your listening to Dolby Atmos on headphones it's still stereo but with some processing on the audio to make it sound different. You don't have multiple speakers you are still playing out of a left and right speaker, they just play with the sound to simulate more space and in turn, I think on some songs, it makes it sound worse. It's a cool gimmick for sure, but I think its pretty hit and miss until experiences are created for Dolby Atmos instead of stereo sources being transitioned. I also believe you lose some detail in the audio as they pop other details to highlight them.
Overall it's a cool party trick but I am not 100% convinced that stereo sources converted to Dolby Atmos and back to L/R speakers make a big deal to me, the lossless so far has been the true hero.
Overall it's a cool party trick but I am not 100% convinced that stereo sources converted to Dolby Atmos and back to L/R speakers make a big deal to me, the lossless so far has been the true hero.
I think alot depends on the track. I've real timed compared some tracks and have noticed a huge difference. Songs that really stood out to me with the spatial audio are Tom Petty " You don't know how it feels" Guns N Roses " sweet child of mine", and the Beatles " here comes the sun" I'm sure there are alot more but they were on the apple rock spatial audio playlist. Definitely made the sound stage stand out on those tracks, volume a little lower but heard things I havent heard before in those sounds. Nice separation , not sure how else to explain it. And this was with cheap apple wired ear buds.
Now I wish they would bring it to windows iTunes so I can use my audioengine A5's to see how it is. I typically stream music with my desktop.
I’ll just say that even though Atmos isn’t really doing much for me yet on iOS devices or my Mac, I just tried it on AppleTV. I don’t have an Atmos receiver even, just an aging Sonos system with Playbar, two Play:1 surrounds, and the sub. Atmos albums are a notable upgrade, simply because there’s actually surround information in the music now. A true Atmos system with height speakers would be pretty cool I imagine.
I think the Marvin Gaye demo here gives a pretty good demonstration of Atomos's potential
www.dolby.com
I had a happy couple of hours yesterday working through the Atmos playlist. It can be hit and miss but when it's good it's very very good - Tom Sawyer and Riders on the Storm in particular.
Music Like Never Before - Dolby Atmos Music
Dolby Atmos Music is reinventing how songs are made and experienced. Learn how Dolby Atmos elevates music, hear from artists, and feel music in a whole new way.
I had a happy couple of hours yesterday working through the Atmos playlist. It can be hit and miss but when it's good it's very very good - Tom Sawyer and Riders on the Storm in particular.
Spatial Audio ruins all the tracks I’ve listened to thus far.
I’m using AirPods Pro, listening to Hybrid Theory by Linkin Park. What happens when I enable Spatial Audio is that the music volume lowers by about 40%, the vocals are brought forward, and all the instruments are muted.
It’s the worst thing I’ve heard in a long time; it feels like a typical Apple Jony Ive move, all style, negative substance.
I’m using AirPods Pro, listening to Hybrid Theory by Linkin Park. What happens when I enable Spatial Audio is that the music volume lowers by about 40%, the vocals are brought forward, and all the instruments are muted.
It’s the worst thing I’ve heard in a long time; it feels like a typical Apple Jony Ive move, all style, negative substance.
except Apple didn't create dolby atmos for music... it is not an apple exclusive either
Music Like Never Before - Dolby Atmos Music
Dolby Atmos Music is reinventing how songs are made and experienced. Learn how Dolby Atmos elevates music, hear from artists, and feel music in a whole new way.
It is what it is.except Apple didn't create dolby atmos for music... it is not an apple exclusive either
Music Like Never Before - Dolby Atmos Music
Dolby Atmos Music is reinventing how songs are made and experienced. Learn how Dolby Atmos elevates music, hear from artists, and feel music in a whole new way.
I enable Spatial Audio on my AirPods Pro using my iPad Pro 11” M1 to try out the hype, coming in part from the Apple hype machine, and the music sounds far worse than the stereo version.
Apple didn’t have to invent it for it to worsen the audio experience. It still comes off as a Jony Ive move.
Ad copy: “Cooler, lighter, less calories yet somehow it tastes better than the original.”
Actual experience: Wow, there’s no detail in these (iPhone 7 and lower) photos, when you zoom in they look like an awful digital watercolor job; the music is now so quiet you can’t get decent volume out of your headphones anymore and the instruments sound like strained watermelon juice; the neural engine can do 11 trillion operations per second, but when switching apps on my iPhone the UI acts like it’s having a heart attack, etc.
Don’t get me wrong. I’m not a hater. Apple does a lot of things right, otherwise I wouldn’t be using so many of their products. However, I can also remain objective and call a spade a spade.
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I am finding that it greatly depends on the genre, specific tracks, and the headphones you are using. Most of the jazz playlist sounds great on my Airpods Max - really makes nice separation of the instruments and gets rid of the completely isolated stereo mastering that many of these old tracks had which was always awkward for headphone listening. On a lot of modern pop stuff it's no surprise that it may or may not work well and people may or may not like it. Yes, certain aspects of the track are now quieter, but honestly the original mix where everything was about equal - or more likely - bass dominated the sound because that's what the average person wants - doesn't sound better - just different - and that may be what you are used to.
Using my other high-end wired headphones I don't find the experience to be nearly as consistent as on the AirPods Max. Honestly this is exactly why I took a risk and bought these - I had a hunch Apple had some neat tricks up their sleeve once they had a high-end headphone that could be improved through software over time.
Using my other high-end wired headphones I don't find the experience to be nearly as consistent as on the AirPods Max. Honestly this is exactly why I took a risk and bought these - I had a hunch Apple had some neat tricks up their sleeve once they had a high-end headphone that could be improved through software over time.
In my opinion spacial audio is only a modest improvement for earphones like the AirPod Pros and frankly makes some music sound worse. Some of the brightness of the music, the clarity of a background instrument is lost.
For surround speakers setups the story is completely different and Atmos really feels like the game changer that Apple have been promoting. I have a 5.2.4 B&W setup and never really experienced music like this.
For surround speakers setups the story is completely different and Atmos really feels like the game changer that Apple have been promoting. I have a 5.2.4 B&W setup and never really experienced music like this.