Real tired of Apple and developers with apps on MAS

[allan.nyholm]

So, this might come out as a rant. It is.

Recently some of my purchased apps from the MacAppStore was taken down - directly of my previously purchased list or my Purchased list. Apps that I'd like to reinstall after a macOS Sierra clean install.

For instance ColorSchemer Studio 2 - it just went bye bye. And so I went to the author's website and it said that "Unfortunately ColorSchemer software is no longer available for sale or supported." WTH.

I get it that any programmer would take down their application entirely from either the Mac App Store or the internet as a whole.. I just don't get why I - THE USER - has to run around the internet finding out that any app is not available anymore. Another example is a game: Superfrog from TEAM17 - I can download it but there is no website on the MAS for it anymore. The same with apps such as Entropy and Spectrum from http://www.eigenlogik.com/

Why can't the developers at least answer a query about the reason for their silence and removal of the Entropy application from MAS. Who's thinking that I'm spending a massive amount of money for Entropy and Spectrum just to have them removed from the MAS and not being updated. Removed from MAS but I can download them still.

If any user cleans up their Purchased list - I suggest being cautious - the apps might just be gone forever once that is done. So don't ever clean up legacy apps allthe way from Mavericks or Lion. That's my advice.

I think that Apple - WHO'S IN CHARGE OF THE MAC APP STORE - should give we users much more information about what is happening with their App Store on the Mac.

From now on I'm being overly cautious with purchasing anything on MAS.
A game that I bought - that is also removed - is the GRID car racing game. The GRID 2 game is there.

I hate this kind of poor communication - who lays down hundreds of $$ on the MacAppStore and to the developers only to be expanded in the ****** by all parts.

Information - we're living in the age of information and the Internet for Heavens Sake- but I guess that a circular building over in the US of A is more important to get news about than sending an e-mail(again Internet + information) to the App Store connected e-mail.


TURDINESS IS ALL I SAY. PIECE OF **** DEVELOPERS AND THE COMPANY THAT IS APPLE.

 

[m4v3r1ck]

NUFF SAID! Agree 100% on the very poor communication skills in 2017! But hey, I believe they're called a-social bubbles.

Cheers

 

[rhett7660]

So, this might come out as a rant. It is.

Recently some of my purchased apps from the MacAppStore was taken down - directly of my previously purchased list or my Purchased list. Apps that I'd like to reinstall after a macOS Sierra clean install.

For instance ColorSchemer Studio 2 - it just went bye bye. And so I went to the author's website and it said that "Unfortunately ColorSchemer software is no longer available for sale or supported." WTH.

I get it that any programmer would take down their application entirely from either the Mac App Store or the internet as a whole.. I just don't get why I - THE USER - has to run around the internet finding out that any app is not available anymore. Another example is a game: Superfrog from TEAM17 - I can download it but there is no website on the MAS for it anymore. The same with apps such as Entropy and Spectrum from http://www.eigenlogik.com/

Why can't the developers at least answer a query about the reason for their silence and removal of the Entropy application from MAS. Who's thinking that I'm spending a massive amount of money for Entropy and Spectrum just to have them removed from the MAS and not being updated. Removed from MAS but I can download them still.

If any user cleans up their Purchased list - I suggest being cautious - the apps might just be gone forever once that is done. So don't ever clean up legacy apps allthe way from Mavericks or Lion. That's my advice.

I think that Apple - WHO'S IN CHARGE OF THE MAC APP STORE - should give we users much more information about what is happening with their App Store on the Mac.

From now on I'm being overly cautious with purchasing anything on MAS.
A game that I bought - that is also removed - is the GRID car racing game. The GRID 2 game is there.

I hate this kind of poor communication - who lays down hundreds of $$ on the MacAppStore and to the developers only to be expanded in the ****** by all parts.

Information - we're living in the age of information and the Internet for Heavens Sake- but I guess that a circular building over in the US of A is more important to get news about than sending an e-mail(again Internet + information) to the App Store connected e-mail.


TURDINESS IS ALL I SAY. PIECE OF **** DEVELOPERS AND THE COMPANY THAT IS APPLE.

I wouldn't blame Apple, I would be blaming the developers. That should really be a comment about the developers and how they handle their customers. Not Apple. Now if Apple took down the app for a specific reason, I would hope there would be some communication between the user of said app and Apple as to why, etc. I would think the same could be said about big box stores who sell products. One day the product is there the next it isn't.

Maybe, you could not invest in products or apps that might be from a small developer. Maybe only purchase items from large development teams or teams that have a track history and are established.

When a few of the big name developers left the Mac APP store, they notified their users and gave the reason or reason's why they did leave. Again, this was done by the developers/company not Apple. As it should be IMHO.

 

[allan.nyholm]

@rhett7660 I might have been a bit over the top in my comment and I do agree with what you say about the developers also needing to take some form of responsibility. Somehow I feel that the transparency of app developers and the company responsible for the store the said developers put their apps up and remove is getting much more opaque as time goes by.

It's like the blurred transparent windows in macOS Sierra - you can kinda gaze what's underneath but you really can't tell for sure. That's where I believe we're heading. I know that one person, me, have absolutely nothing to be said about developers for what is my favorite OS platform of the three major ones. I'm not giving up on the Mac platform and I won't stop buying apps from the Mac App Store nor the iOS App Store.

It's getting all too easy to either pull or push an app or whatever non-app related. Like opinions. We all have one - but I'm willing to change that opinion to that one which suits my convincing.

Autodesk for instance took away their 123 series and also the Pixlr application - I admit that they are free downloads with option to buy a subsription - I never did for either app. So it's not a loss in $$ - but still - where is the info on that decision. I'll just take what ever I can get and then not anymore I assume.

My rant about Apple as a company was perhaps just that they are more opaque than transparent - sitting on "secrets"

I'm still an Mac user and a happy one at that.

 

[rhett7660]

@rhett7660 I might have been a bit over the top in my comment and I do agree with what you say about the developers also needing to take some form of responsibility. Somehow I feel that the transparency of app developers and the company responsible for the store the said developers put their apps up and remove is getting much more opaque as time goes by.

It's like the blurred transparent windows in macOS Sierra - you can kinda gaze what's underneath but you really can't tell for sure. That's where I believe we're heading. I know that one person, me, have absolutely nothing to be said about developers for what is my favorite OS platform of the three major ones. I'm not giving up on the Mac platform and I won't stop buying apps from the Mac App Store nor the iOS App Store.

It's getting all too easy to either pull or push an app or whatever non-app related. Like opinions. We all have one - but I'm willing to change that opinion to that one which suits my convincing.

Autodesk for instance took away their 123 series and also the Pixlr application - I admit that they are free downloads with option to buy a subsription - I never did for either app. So it's not a loss in $$ - but still - where is the info on that decision. I'll just take what ever I can get and then not anymore I assume.

My rant about Apple as a company was perhaps just that they are more opaque than transparent - sitting on "secrets"

I'm still an Mac user and a happy one at that.

On a side note, I have been very selective on which Apps I do buy from the App store. I have had this done a few times or the developer leaves their app in the store and never updates it. Which sucks, because some of the apps are are really good. I feel the frustration, but for me, it isn't up to Apple, it is up to the developer who by way of purchase has created a relationship with their customer and to leave you high and dry without an explanation or even a john dear letter kinda tells me everything I need to know about that developer. Having said that, it may make me re-think my next purchase would could hurt the independent developer community as whole.

 

[mkelly]

So, this might come out as a rant. It is.
Recently some of my purchased apps from the MacAppStore was taken down - directly of my previously purchased list or my Purchased list. Apps that I'd like to reinstall after a macOS Sierra clean install...

TURDINESS IS ALL I SAY. PIECE OF **** DEVELOPERS AND THE COMPANY THAT IS APPLE.

Not a bad rant. Here's another (small) one:

It's 2017. We've had personal computers on our desks and laps for *decades* now, and one thing that sysadmins (of which I am one) have been telling people DAILY is:

BACK. YOUR. STUFF. UP.

Yes, it totally sucks that Apple and devs pull things from the App Store - but there are both good and bad reasons why they do it. In the end though, it's the user's responsibility to make sure that the important stuff on their computer is backed up and easily recoverable somewhere.

In 1984, backing stuff up was a complete pain in the ass. You'd spend hours swapping 5.25" and 3.5" floppies in and out of drives (and if you only had a single drive... well you poor bastard). But now in 2017 we have amazing technologies like gigantic external hard drives, cloud backup services, distributed filesystems, network attached storage, etc, etc, etc.

Any of these technologies would've backed up your Applications folder and all the Mac AppStore apps contained within it - making it a snap to restore, regardless of the degree of Apple's "TURDINESS" ;-)

There is no excuse for losing important data in 2017.

 

[allan.nyholm]

Not a bad rant. Here's another (small) one:

It's 2017. We've had personal computers on our desks and laps for *decades* now, and one thing that sysadmins (of which I am one) have been telling people DAILY is:

BACK. YOUR. STUFF. UP.

Yes, it totally sucks that Apple and devs pull things from the App Store - but there are both good and bad reasons why they do it. In the end though, it's the user's responsibility to make sure that the important stuff on their computer is backed up and easily recoverable somewhere.

In 1984, backing stuff up was a complete pain in the ass. You'd spend hours swapping 5.25" and 3.5" floppies in and out of drives (and if you only had a single drive... well you poor bastard). But now in 2017 we have amazing technologies like gigantic external hard drives, cloud backup services, distributed filesystems, network attached storage, etc, etc, etc.

Any of these technologies would've backed up your Applications folder and all the Mac AppStore apps contained within it - making it a snap to restore, regardless of the degree of Apple's "TURDINESS" ;-)

There is no excuse for losing important data in 2017.

Absolutely true about the backups I keep a Time Machine backup but I don't have the advised amount of double the total capacity of the storage in the Mac. Instead I half very less of the advised amount of storage for Time Machine available if my math is correct. 500GB for Time Machine of the 1TB I have in my Mac.

So I take it back + the turdiness phrase. I'd still like to think that something, something etc.

But a personal computer should also have a personal label attached to it.
"Dear Allan, I'm sorry that I am the one to tell you this. We've removed your previously paid for apps. I've attached an IFF-ILBM image of a boomerang in the email for you to throw, crybaby. Karma is a bi*ch.

From the Desk of Tim Cook we say "Good night!"

 

[mrex]

I skip mac appstore to buy apps str8 from the website when it is possible.

However, apple should keep apps in the cloud for people who have purchased them.

 

[TonyK]

I keep a Time Machine backup but I don't have the advised amount of double the total capacity of the storage in the Mac. Instead I half very less of the advised amount of storage for Time Machine available if my math is correct. 500GB for Time Machine of the 1TB I have in my Mac.

So this is on you, for not having the needed space to backup your system.

As far as Apple and MAS, it could come down to copyright and DMCA. Once the developer ceased operations, Apple and MAS may no longer have a legal right to retain any copies, even copies purchased by customers, on their system. It is not a clear cut issue that Apple screwed up. It could be as simple as Apple following the law or even written instructions from the developer. It could be that Apple decided long ago to remove any apps that are orphanware because providing the apps could result in a support issue. If the application is a paid for app, there is the issue of remitting the funds to a closed operation.

Our systems have at least 2 backups. One that is ran through Chronosync and the other through Timemachine. Between these we can recover just about anything.

 

[Tech198]

not relation to, but the App Store on iOS, I never get why titles are are removed, still can be downloaded from Purchased section, where the Mac App Store on th Mac, when its gone, its gone regardless.

While it appears in the list still u cannot download, but when it comes to iOS, in the same situation, you can. I don't get why Apple does this differently like that. But if anything, if Apple are gonna leave it available to download from Purchases (which tells me its' not linked,, on iOS version there are actually two copies served separately), why Apple cannot do the same on the Mac....

It would save allot of people who wanna re-download software that is no longer on the Store..

And presumably, it comes from the same place, just set up differently..

 

[allan.nyholm]

So this is on you, for not having the needed space to backup your system.

As far as Apple and MAS, it could come down to copyright and DMCA. Once the developer ceased operations, Apple and MAS may no longer have a legal right to retain any copies, even copies purchased by customers, on their system. It is not a clear cut issue that Apple screwed up. It could be as simple as Apple following the law or even written instructions from the developer. It could be that Apple decided long ago to remove any apps that are orphanware because providing the apps could result in a support issue. If the application is a paid for app, there is the issue of remitting the funds to a closed operation.

Our systems have at least 2 backups. One that is ran through Chronosync and the other through Timemachine. Between these we can recover just about anything.

You're absolutely correct in that I should and could have bought into bigger storage for Time Machine or any other local/off-site backup solution. Based on my so-called rant I will further investigate various harddrives and see if any off-site solution is viable - any local drive beats any off-site solution in terms of my money capacity(let's just say that)

I don't want to be the one who - despite years of computing practices - can't actually figure out ones own computing life.
It's essential - it would sem - to protect ones behind. Because software development is a fleeting concept in that any developer of software can take a new life-choice and do something else entirely or the company that produces the computer on which the software is run does not produce the hardware that enables such software to be run.

I learn with each complaint that everyone's a fool. Including me.
[doublepost=1491818097][/doublepost]

not relation to, but the App Store on iOS, I never get why titles are are removed, still can be downloaded from Purchased section, where the Mac App Store on th Mac, when its gone, its gone regardless.

While it appears in the list still u cannot download, but when it comes to iOS, in the same situation, you can. I don't get why Apple does this differently like that. But if anything, if Apple are gonna leave it available to download from Purchases (which tells me its' not linked,, on iOS version there are actually two copies served separately), why Apple cannot do the same on the Mac....

It would save allot of people who wanna re-download software that is no longer on the Store..

And presumably, it comes from the same place, just set up differently..

It's a great point you made about the 'same origin should equal same procedure' However, with Autodesk Pixlr I can still download it and use it - but I can't open the App Store page for the same program. And that is also a complaint about the differences between the United States and the European version of the iOS and Mac App Store decisions. I mean, how much time does it take to send an app the size of 50 megabytes through the Internet-pipe to Europe in 2017? Days, Weeks or Years?

 

[Loge]

While I agree you should definitely make backups, Apple's support page states that if you have purchased an app from the MAS, you can download it again; it makes no mention that it may no longer be available. So it is entirely understandable that users get frustrated if they cannot. (Maybe it is different in Europe though)

https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT202161

 

[mmcc]

I wouldn't blame Apple, I would be blaming the developers.

I don't know the specific reason the app was removed, but in my book Apple could deserve plenty of blame. The MAS has devalued software to nearly zero and very few people that use the MAS actually purchase anything. It is primarily a freebies search site.

Apple has done little to address the real needs of developers on the desktop with a MAS that is patterned after mobile needs, including the ridiculously low pricing, no trials, no paid upgrades, overly restrictive sandboxing, excessive fee for the service they provide, and side-by-side highlighting of free alternatives to paid apps.

Developers can't survive when $10 in sales/day puts you in the top 10 for a category.

 

[Supermacguy]

As a dev who does have apps on the MAS, I'll say:
1. You should backup your apps, as others have mentioned.
2. I have no information about who is purchasing my app on the MAS. If I stop sales, how would I even let users know?
2a. I could try to, from version 1.0, build in a phone-home system to my website to see if I put out a message for users that a version is going away. But this is far too much overhead for a lot of apps. And a lot of fore-thought.
2b. I could put on my blog that I'm taking it down. The likelihood that users ever see it is near zero, until it's after the fact like your situation.

So from my side, solutions are not great when there is no direct communication. From private sales I can get emails and could send direct messages to purchasers if I had a very important message about my app. The MAS does not have any communication mechanism.

The MAS was a great idea that got 15 minutes of fame then never had any updates. I agree it's not very good. It's not bad, but needs a lot more development to be actual Apple-level quality (or at least, Apple of yore).

 

[mrex]

Until apple start providing e.g. dmg-files for each purchases, i would avoid it. I wouldnt trust that you are able to download it again from appstore...

Sandboxing is another issue and it may "thinner" the software from its functions and even restrict them to able to be in the appstore in the first place.

 

[allan.nyholm]

As a dev who does have apps on the MAS, I'll say:
1. You should backup your apps, as others have mentioned.
2. I have no information about who is purchasing my app on the MAS. If I stop sales, how would I even let users know?
2a. I could try to, from version 1.0, build in a phone-home system to my website to see if I put out a message for users that a version is going away. But this is far too much overhead for a lot of apps. And a lot of fore-thought.
2b. I could put on my blog that I'm taking it down. The likelihood that users ever see it is near zero, until it's after the fact like your situation.

So from my side, solutions are not great when there is no direct communication. From private sales I can get emails and could send direct messages to purchasers if I had a very important message about my app. The MAS does not have any communication mechanism.

The MAS was a great idea that got 15 minutes of fame then never had any updates. I agree it's not very good. It's not bad, but needs a lot more development to be actual Apple-level quality (or at least, Apple of yore).

I see your points and I see that developers are clearly not to blame. It's the MAS and its lack of communication mechanism. A scenario for me would be ideal; I download an app from MAS > Developers ceases development of app > Apple knows my purchase Apple-ID and notifies me of removal and what I can do from there on out, essentially what are my options.

The above would have to have Apple implement a snooping of the MAS once every week seeking out developers that have removed or noticed Apple of a removal or an explanation of a removal due to a security breach in said app and that a fix is coming. This is all on Apple.

My beef is not with developers - not now - and certainly not after being aware of the lack of MAS notification.

I only noticed the message from the author of ColorScheme Studio because I visited the website for ColorScheme Studio. I got curious as to why I couldn't see the program any more. It led me to their website that I of course visited prior to purchasing their app on MAS - not knowing the situation of the future(time travel not possible). The author of Entropy hasn't returned my query as to why Entropy does not have a MAS-page anymore and if their are exiting the Mac software business. Entropy I do have access to still in my purchased list so perhaps something new is on its way. I thought consolidating all apps would be beneficial for developers and users as well as the developers who also use other developer's apps. They must be equally irritated of the MAS? Perhaps developers are just better people and I need to grow up and become a developer.

I have an idea for an app - a well-thought out idea for an app. The thing stopping me is the lack of almost any coding skills.

 

[Erdbeertorte]

...I can download it but there is no website on the MAS for it anymore. The same with apps such as Entropy and Spectrum from http://www.eigenlogik.com/

Why can't the developers at least answer a query about the reason for their silence and removal of the Entropy application from MAS. Who's thinking that I'm spending a massive amount of money for Entropy and Spectrum just to have them removed from the MAS and not being updated. Removed from MAS but I can download them still.

Hey,

I am still able to purchase both of those apps in the Austrian App Store but they have not been updated since a long time.
Eigenlogik is a German/Austrian word. Maybe they removed it from some stores because they didn't update it anymore since 2012/2013 and it does not work properly on newer OS X/macOS versions, so they kept it only in there home store(s) with probably the most purchases.

Changing the country of your Apple-ID and buying them again might work if you have no running Apple subscription and/or credit on your store account.

Normally after changing the country you will see the price and while purchasing you get a message that you
are eligible to download it for free again because you already bought it in another country's store.


https://itunes.apple.com/at/app/spectrum/id518156125?l=en&mt=12

https://itunes.apple.com/at/app/entropy/id437151949?l=en&mt=12

 

[TonyK]

This is just a very bad situation. When I re-read my reply above it came off snarky and mean. That was not my intention and my apologies for that.

It is very frustrating to have something purchased suddenly disappear without recourse and that is what this situation is about.

Have you tried writing Apple with as much information as you have to see if they can maybe resolve the issue?

 

[allan.nyholm]

This is just a very bad situation. When I re-read my reply above it came off snarky and mean. That was not my intention and my apologies for that.

It is very frustrating to have something purchased suddenly disappear without recourse and that is what this situation is about.

Have you tried writing Apple with as much information as you have to see if they can maybe resolve the issue?

I have reached out to Apple Support on Twitter simply because that was the quickest. They sent me a reply that I have to contact Apple iTunes Support at apple.co/iTunesStore - I know where that goes - right into the depths of a long explanation that somewhere between the Earth and the rest of the known universe nothing is certain.

I can live with a reply like that - one has to I would assume.

The apps I mention are not life altering programs but it's somewhat of a mystery to me when this happen. I thought other Mac users experienced the same or a similar experience.

It would be waking up one morning and all your shoes are gone. You have your socks still. I can buy new shoes.
"Ummm, yeah, we took your shoes because .. didn't you get the memo? Also we'll have to move your desk down to the basement"

I'm happier now.
[doublepost=1491903260][/doublepost]

Hey,

I am still able to purchase both of those apps in the Austrian App Store but they have not been updated since a long time.
Eigenlogik is a German/Austrian word. Maybe they removed it from some stores because they didn't update it anymore since 2012/2013 and it does not work properly on newer OS X/macOS versions, so they kept it only in there home store(s) with probably the most purchases.

Changing the country of your Apple-ID and buying them again might work if you have no running Apple subscription and/or credit on your store account.

Normally after changing the country you will see the price and while purchasing you get a message that you
are eligible to download it for free again because you already bought it in another country's store.


https://itunes.apple.com/at/app/spectrum/id518156125?l=en&mt=12

https://itunes.apple.com/at/app/entropy/id437151949?l=en&mt=12

View attachment 695633
View attachment 695634

That is somewhat odd. I know that there's no updates for a while on both apps but they are with both English and Deutsch languages - can understand both languages - German perhaps not as much as English when I think about it.

Given that it's an German/Austrian word I can see the idea of having them on the german language MAS.

I mentioned in my first post that I still have them as downloadable..

....And right as I'm typing this - both Entropy and Spectrum has returned - the latter with an update for macOS Sierra. Their pages have both returned for gawking, stars and comment purposes.

I guess my complaining days are over.

 

[rhett7660]

I don't know the specific reason the app was removed, but in my book Apple could deserve plenty of blame. The MAS has devalued software to nearly zero and very few people that use the MAS actually purchase anything. It is primarily a freebies search site.

Apple has done little to address the real needs of developers on the desktop with a MAS that is patterned after mobile needs, including the ridiculously low pricing, no trials, no paid upgrades, overly restrictive sandboxing, excessive fee for the service they provide, and side-by-side highlighting of free alternatives to paid apps.

Developers can't survive when $10 in sales/day puts you in the top 10 for a category.

I don't think your particular rant has anything to do with the developer failing to provide a reason or to let their customer base know the reason for pulling their particular app. This has nothing to do with the topic and what I addressed. I never said or mentioned anything about the price of an app in the MAS.

While I understand you do not like it, developers do not have to participate in the MAS. Last I checked they didn't have submit anything and could still sell their software outside the MAS. There have been several big name company's who have left the MAS for the reasons you mentioned. So going back to my original comment, I would not blame Apple for not notifying the customers of a particular developer who decided, outside of any wrong doing or at the request of Apple, to remove their application from the MAS.

 

[chadatmacupdate]

In response to ColorSchemer specifically, it can still be directly downloaded here

https://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/15962/color-schemer-studio

So, this might come out as a rant. It is.

Recently some of my purchased apps from the MacAppStore was taken down - directly of my previously purchased list or my Purchased list. Apps that I'd like to reinstall after a macOS Sierra clean install.

For instance ColorSchemer Studio 2 - it just went bye bye. And so I went to the author's website and it said that "Unfortunately ColorSchemer software is no longer available for sale or supported." WTH.

I get it that any programmer would take down their application entirely from either the Mac App Store or the internet as a whole.. I just don't get why I - THE USER - has to run around the internet finding out that any app is not available anymore. Another example is a game: Superfrog from TEAM17 - I can download it but there is no website on the MAS for it anymore. The same with apps such as Entropy and Spectrum from http://www.eigenlogik.com/

 

[allan.nyholm]

In response to ColorSchemer specifically, it can still be directly downloaded here

https://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/15962/color-schemer-studio

Thanks for sharing your link.
It can be downloaded on their official website too - which I did earlier today - but that still leaves me without a serialnumber for the app. It's not important anymore.

 

[mmcc]

Thanks for sharing your link.
It can be downloaded on their official website too - which I did earlier today - but that still leaves me without a serialnumber for the app. It's not important anymore.

Once again I am critical of the Mac App Store model -- developers receive ZERO information on who purchases. Therefore, even if a developer wanted to transition existing customers to an off-site distribution, they cannot verify who and who is not a customer.

Yet Apple refers MAS customers to developers for support...

 

[robgendreau]

The MAS store is basically a joke. For the 30% cut they take, it's doubtful the developers or consumers are getting much value back. Even looking for things there is a chore. Considering Apple obsesses over their retail stores, their online effort looks especially poor by comparison, like a dollar store that's seen better days. I mean how many video converters do we need? so much junk. And the truely useful utilities would never get approved.