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Kendo

macrumors 68020
Original poster
Apr 4, 2011
2,339
858
I love the design of Macs and used them for the past 10 years. For work, I was forced to get a Windows 11 laptop so I ended up getting a 17" LG Gram. When it comes to personal use, I mainly use my laptop for browsing (Chrome), Netflix (also on Chrome), and "errands" such as paying the bills online and answering emails (again on Chrome). The same holds true for a lot of friends and family members.

Putting aside the beauty of macOS, once you open Chrome, is there really any difference between a Mac and a Windows laptop? I mean one can say how much they can't stand Windows, but I don't find it very different to click on the Chrome app on the Dock or clicking on it in the Windows Start menu. Once Chrome is opened and you're watching Netflix or browsing the web, I find the OS pretty irrelevant.

Is the main reason to get a Mac for mainstream consumers due to the integration of macOS and iOS? I do miss being able to answer a FaceTime call on my Mac and answering an iMessage directly on the Mac without picking up my phone.
 
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DarkPremiumCho

macrumors 6502
Mar 2, 2023
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There is a difference, although I am saying this purely out of my personal experience:

  1. Display: Even on the lowest spec Mac I get a nice display (at least after 2012). I don't even have the option to go for a display that sucks. On the PC world they may include a display that makes my eyes bleed.
  2. Font rendering: Mac OS X 10.6 has better font rendering than Windows 11, especially non-Latin characters. This surely has an impact on the browsers.
  3. Scaling: In high resolution displays, the scaling on Windows today is no better than OS X Lion, which was released 12 years ago. 81/82 apps scale beautifully on my Mac without any GUI issue. The only one has a scaling problem is a GNU free software. I don't want to be harsh on open source software.
  4. Backup: Time Machine not only backs up my data, but also my settings, my apps, and the settings of my apps, and more. I still don't see people discussing a go-to back up solution from Microsoft. By the way, Windows screws up my boot order/disk partition many times to the extend I have to physically, temporarily remove some drives during reinstall.
  5. Crashes: On Mac I still get (almost) everything back after a force reboot.
  6. Battery: it's just longer
  7. Stickers: Though this is not a Windows problem. They are ugly and they sometimes have bigger stickers than the brand logo.
  8. Trackpad: Apple really did a good job extending my hands. It's like my brain is directly connected to the Mac.
  9. UI and Animations: They are mathematically beautiful, especially the curvature continuity.
  10. OS update: Well I don't see memes mocking macOS forced updates.
  11. UNIX foundation: very handy for my job

I believe these reasons justify my decision to purchase a Mac, despite the sky high price of RAM, SSD, out of warranty service, and the below par repairability, and software bugs in recent years.
 
There is a difference, although I am saying this purely out of my personal experience:

  1. Display: Even on the lowest spec Mac I get a nice display (at least after 2012). I don't even have the option to go for a display that sucks. On the PC world they may include a display that makes my eyes bleed.

Just well, probably best to avoid the MacBook Airs through 2015 and iMacs through late 2014, as well, as these don’t have the Retina/4K+ display which, for some, is a must-have killer feature.

  1. Font rendering: Mac OS X 10.6 has better font rendering than Windows 11, especially non-Latin characters. This surely has an impact on the browsers.

Nothing but facts here.

  1. Stickers: Though this is not a Windows problem. They are ugly and they sometimes have bigger stickers than the brand logo.

Goo-gone and 99 per cent isopropyl alcohol solve (pun not intended) that minor annoyance in a hurry.

  1. Trackpad: Apple really did a good job extending my hands. It's like my brain is directly connected to the Mac.

This one is very much a personal taste thing. I still prefer the physical click of the unibody MBA/MBP multi-touch pad over the haptic response (“force touch”) replacement on later, post-2015 models. As the latter is software-dependent, I have had the rare, but recurring (and, ths, annoying) experience of the haptic response being absent despite pressing down to select something.

  1. UI and Animations: They are mathematically beautiful, especially the curvature continuity.

The animations are wonderful.

Starting around (if not just before Sierra and, possibly, as far back as Yosemite), I began to see tiny bits of sloppiness in the UI which didn’t exist prior to.

That, plus there’s an increasing inconsistency for UI elements across different apps, post 10.x, becoming more of a headache as, it seems, the current crop of Mac UI/UX developers at Apple are not communicating as well with one another or maintaining a strict compliance with their own UI/UX standards guide. Possibly the most annoying of these, aside from how the “traffic buttons” can now have at least three ways of revealing themselves, is a lack of WindowServer “memory retention” of saving where a user places short-term modal dialogues (like the kind to appear when deleting a bunch of files or, say, copying them to a new location: the latter, as always, is remembered, and future appearances will continue to appear in that spot; the former, however, will not, and may appear wherever the system defaults it).

What this amounts to, from a 33-year user of Macs, is clever, low-level thinking and a strict adherence to consistency both now run secondary to flashy ways to show off the hardware within. In this sense, Apple’s tack is feeling more and more like the way Microsoft tries to re-invent the UI, often to sloppy, inconsistent ends.

  1. OS update: Well I don't see memes mocking macOS forced updates.

Yet. :p

  1. UNIX foundation: very handy for my job

It will be interesting to see whether Microsoft, as they expand emphasis of Windows on ARM chips, will attempt to implement some kind of POSIX-based undercarriage with the kind of stability associated with NT in the 3.51 and 4.0 days. That could be a game-changer for developers.

I believe these reasons justify my decision to purchase a Mac, despite the sky high price of RAM, SSD, out of warranty service, and the below par repairability, and software bugs in recent years.

The problem with current Macs isn’t so much their “low repairability”, as it is their active measures to prevent repairability, down to “pairing” (unsoldered) components within cryptographically, forcing all to rely on Apple Genius Bar interaction for any repair… so long as your model isn’t obsoleted by Apple. Once that happens, there is no recourse, no fix — shy of someone leaking the cryptographic matching software Apple keeps tightly locked down at their Apple Store repair centres.
 

Longplays

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Diff is Toyota vs Lexus. Both gets you to point A to B at roughly the same time. Experience is diff though.

Same with flying economy class and 1st class on a plane. You arrive at destination at roughly same time.
 

bobcomer

macrumors 601
May 18, 2015
4,949
3,699
It will be interesting to see whether Microsoft, as they expand emphasis of Windows on ARM chips, will attempt to implement some kind of POSIX-based undercarriage with the kind of stability associated with NT in the 3.51 and 4.0 days. That could be a game-changer for developers.
That's not even as likely as Apple making their Macbooks user expandible again. There would be no benefit and plenty of harm. There's really no advantage to running a UNIX kernel. Hardware can do what hardware can do, no matter what the kernel is.
 
That's not even as likely as Apple making their Macbooks user expandible again. There would be no benefit and plenty of harm. There's really no advantage to running a UNIX kernel. Hardware can do what hardware can do, no matter what the kernel is.

Is this to advance a belief that Microsoft will still be building and maintaining an operating system on the bones of backslashes, NT underpinnings, and the option to use a DOS-based console, for decades to come?
 

Longplays

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Is this to advance a belief that Microsoft will still be building and maintaining an operating system on the bones of backslashes, NT underpinnings, and the option to use a DOS-based console, for decades to come?
Moving forward x86 will be for legacy software/hardware like how mainframes are relevant today.

To modernize it Intel proposed to drop legacy hardware compataibility of x86 with Intel x86-S.
 

LeeW

macrumors 601
Feb 5, 2017
4,342
9,446
Over here
is there really any difference between a Mac and a Windows laptop?

Keeping this strictly to your question and isolating Mac vs Windows laptops there is really no difference for the average consumer other than the OS.

I have re-told this story many times. My neighbour got the New M1 MBA at launch. He was really pleased with it and shouted over the hedge to me " I bought the new MBA with the Intel M1 chip in it". I didn't correct him, there was no need. He is happy, he doesn't care about differences and that is all that matters. That is the way it is for the majority.
 
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Longplays

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Keeping this strictly to your question and isolating Mac vs Windows laptops there is really no difference for the average consumer other than the OS.

I have re-told this story many times. My neighbour got the New M1 MBA at launch. He was really pleased with it and shouted over the hedge to me " I bought the new MBA with the Intel M1 chip in it". I didn't correct him, there was no need. He is happy, he doesn't care about differences and that is all that matters. That is the way it is for the majority.
Are you sure he didn't get an Intel Ultra?

9c8e3ed0-0b93-11ee-b67a-57d9975e477e.cf.webp
 
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Big Bad D

macrumors 6502a
Jan 3, 2007
533
570
France
Diff is Toyota vs Lexus. Both gets you to point A to B at roughly the same time. Experience is diff though.

Same with flying economy class and 1st class on a plane. You arrive at destination at roughly same time.
Agreed, but like Lexus and First Class there’s also a premium price…
 

Longplays

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Agreed, but like Lexus and First Class there’s also a premium price…
Better experience often is.

Before deregulation flying any class was an experience.

With deregulation it is the race to the bottom. Sure, you get cheap seats but you'll be treated like cattle.

Want the pre-deregulation economy class? Buy Premium Economy.
 

cardfan

macrumors 601
Mar 23, 2012
4,431
5,627
Here’s the difference. Mainstream know nothing relative wants a laptop. You recommend a MacBook Air or whatever. Relative then says but I saw a 300 dollar laptop at Walmart. Is that any good? I want to spend least as possible.

It then goes downhill from there as I try to exit stage left from the whole thing.
 

Longplays

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Here’s the difference. Mainstream know nothing relative wants a laptop. You recommend a MacBook Air or whatever. Relative then says but I saw a 300 dollar laptop at Walmart. Is that any good? I want to spend least as possible.

It then goes downhill from there as I try to exit stage left from the whole thing.
That's why I do not bother being the helpful nerd anymore unless they want an Apple.

When you become too enthusiastic in promoting a luxury brand you come off as a financially insensitive clod.
 
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bobcomer

macrumors 601
May 18, 2015
4,949
3,699
Is this to advance a belief that Microsoft will still be building and maintaining an operating system on the bones of backslashes, NT underpinnings, and the option to use a DOS-based console, for decades to come?
I don't know about how many decades, but a lot of businesses run on x86 Windows.

But no, that isn't why I said what I said about a UNIX kernel -- there just wouldn't be any advantage for Microsoft to switch to a UNIX Kernel, even if they switched hardware. A UNIX kernel isn't magic, it has to do the same things as a Windows kernel given whatever hardware its running on. If they were to try and make a new OS, they could use a UNIX kernel if they wanted, but if I were making the decision, I wouldn't. Apple was making a new OS when they decided to go with the MACH kernel -- that's the only time you'd do something like that!
 

neuropsychguy

macrumors 68030
Sep 29, 2008
2,684
6,642
Agreed, but like Lexus and First Class there’s also a premium price…
Not always with computers. A few years ago I bought a Dell XPS as a MacBook Pro alternative. I paid about $1200 for something that was comparable in performance to a $2000 or so MacBook Pro. It was decent but had quite a few quality and component issues (firmware, screen color accuracy, sound output, cooling, and more). I had to get warranty repair on it after owning it for under a year. That can happen with any product but it wasn't encouraging given all the other small issues with it. Battery life was maybe 5 hours if I did mostly word processing. Anything intensive could drop battery life to under 1 hour.

It worked for me but after owning several Macs before it, I was disappointed with it and eventually sold it after a couple years. I got about $600 for it and bought an M1 MacBook Air for just a little more. That was such a pleasure to use after the Dell. I've now given that Air to one of my family members who needed a computer and got a MacBook Pro, which is amazing with incredible battery life. It would be really difficult for me to buy a non-Apple laptop again for my main machine.

I should note that my primary machine is a Windows and Linux booting desktop I put together so I have nothing against Windows; in fact I like much about it, I just think Macs are worth the premium. They actually don't have that much of a premium if you factor in depreciation and resale values. In many cases, they come out well ahead of non-Apple devices.
 
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Longplays

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Not always with computers. A few years ago I bought a Dell XPS as a MacBook Pro alternative. I paid about $1200 for something that was comparable in performance to a $2000 or so MacBook Pro. It was decent but had quite a few quality and component issues (firmware, screen color accuracy, sound output, cooling, and more). I had to get warranty repair on it after owning it for under a year. That can happen with any product but it wasn't encouraging given all the other small issues with it. Battery life was maybe 5 hours if I did mostly word processing. Anything intensive could drop battery life to under 1 hour.

It worked for me but after owning several Macs before it, I was disappointed with it and eventually sold it after a couple years. I got about $600 for it and bought an M1 MacBook Air for just a little more. That was such a pleasure to use after the Dell. I've now given that Air to one of my family members who needed a computer and got a MacBook Pro, which is amazing with incredible battery life. It would be really difficult for me to buy a non-Apple laptop again for my main machine.

I should note that my primary machine is a Windows and Linux booting desktop I put together so I have nothing against Windows; in fact I like much about it, I just think Macs are worth the premium. They actually don't have that much of a premium if you factor in depreciation and resale values. In many cases, they come out well ahead of non-Apple devices.
Something similar to me with the Dell U2711 & U3818DW displays. They were cheaper than Apple equivalent but both failed on me before and after warranty.

Most people with an Apple display appear to be using them more than 1-2 decades later. Mostly retiring them more inches and maybe more ppi.
 

dmccloud

macrumors 68040
Sep 7, 2009
3,146
1,902
Anchorage, AK
I don't know about how many decades, but a lot of businesses run on x86 Windows.

But no, that isn't why I said what I said about a UNIX kernel -- there just wouldn't be any advantage for Microsoft to switch to a UNIX Kernel, even if they switched hardware. A UNIX kernel isn't magic, it has to do the same things as a Windows kernel given whatever hardware its running on. If they were to try and make a new OS, they could use a UNIX kernel if they wanted, but if I were making the decision, I wouldn't. Apple was making a new OS when they decided to go with the MACH kernel -- that's the only time you'd do something like that!

The Mach kernel is based on BSD though, it wasn't a "new" kernel either.
 
Yeah, that's why they chose it, and it's a pretty solid kernel at that -- it was easier to do. MacOS was a new OS though...

No, Mac OS X — now macOS — is the evolutionary end result of the NeXTSTEP operating system brought over when Apple bought NeXT and brought Steve Jobs on board the Apple board of directors in 1997.

Apple’s contribution to NeXTSTEP, after Steve took over as interim chief executive, was to introduce the Aqua UI and to port over Mac OS (i.e., OS 9) as an application layer (“Classic Mode”) to ease the transition toward Apple’s NeXT-originated, BSD-based operating environment (known as Darwin).

macOS’s Darwin is, well, at least 34 years old at this point. BSD, of course, is even older.
 
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Serqetry

macrumors 6502
Feb 26, 2023
413
623
It continues to boggle my mind how anyone can put up with using Windows. If someone realizes just how bad the Windows experience is, then the difference between a Mac laptop and a PC laptop will be night and day, unless they want to run Linux. Its sad how many people will say something like "I hate computers" when they really mean they hate Windows but don't understand what the problem is.
 
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