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Henk van Ess

macrumors demi-god
Original poster
Aug 20, 2008
314
241
Amsterdam
A senior Apple Vision Pro advisor told me more today about the device's inherent optical behaviors, such as reflections or refractions during high-contrast scenes in dim settings. The advisor said, "Thanks to user feedback, we now know for sure that we expect there to be some reflection or refraction while you're watching high contrast scenes in a darkly lit room. So, we tell people, like, look, it's expected behavior. It's the number 1 feedback we get. You can to go to the Apple store and do a fitting test, if it still doesn't work, you can get your money back"


My problem was stray light. Only acceptable setting was Environment White Sand --> Light.

The advisor stressed the subjective nature of the visual experience, saying, "It's very subjective. I couldn't say what you're seeing is what I would see... You're using it so you experience it," highlighting the personal variance in user experiences. The advisor had outlined the comprehensive range of light seal sizes.

They have 11w, 12n, 13n, 13w, 14n, 14w, 21n, 21w, 22n, 22w, 23n, 23w, 24n, 24w, 25n, 25w, 26n, 26w, 33n, 33w, 34n, 34w, 35n, 35w, 36n, 36w

He also shared a personal choice to purchase an alternative VR headset due to budget considerations, "I just bought a Meta Quest 3. I wanted the Vision Pro, but it's too expensive. So I thought, you know what? The Quest 3 has good pass-through, and I just got it yesterday." The senior advisor asked me 25 detailed questions aimed at gathering feedback for improvement purposes. He assured me that this information would go directly to the engineers and other product developers. “We are working on this product since 2011 and really need user data".

The guy helped me with making new appointment for a second fit in the Apple Store in Chandler, where I tried out 10 different light seals, ultimately selecting a 14N over a 25W. The first fitter said I needed 25W and didn't allow me to try out any light seals. This resulted in a $199 charge. Would the first fitter have done his job, I would still have warranty. The senior advisor , own initiative, called me back just now asking how it went and said that the charge was not the correct procedure. And the 14N was still not the perfect fit, so wil bring it back and try again.
 
Last edited:

klasma

macrumors 604
Jun 8, 2017
7,542
21,012
VR hardware exposes individual differences much more than 2D displays. This makes it more challenging as a product.
 

Night Spring

macrumors G5
Jul 17, 2008
14,886
8,056
Light seals make zero difference eon the reflection. It’s all internal. Changing mine was a mistake. Amazing they didnt know this in years of internal testing. Did no one designing the theater rooms ever test them?
There's a limit to how much testing you can do while maintaining product secrecy. You can't bring a 100 users off the streets to try out your product, but that's what they would have needed to do to find all the faults that are now being reported.
 

Rychiar

macrumors 68040
May 16, 2006
3,089
6,558
Waterbury, CT
There's a limit to how much testing you can do while maintaining product secrecy. You can't bring a 100 users off the streets to try out your product, but that's what they would have needed to do to find all the faults that are now being reported.
I literally put this on my head when i bought it and in the first minute was like oh my lenses look smudged. This was in a well lit daytime room using passthrough. Then i tried the imax app and was like “what is this huge white glare covering Half the screen?” it’s not subtle at all and is immediately noticeable. I’t snot like some buried bug that isn’t immediately apparent
 

Night Spring

macrumors G5
Jul 17, 2008
14,886
8,056
I literally put this on my head when i bought it and in the first minute was like oh my lenses look smudged. This was in a well lit daytime room using passthrough. Then i tried the imax app and was like “what is this huge white glare covering Half the screen?” it’s not subtle at all and is immediately noticeable. I’t snot like some buried bug that isn’t immediately apparent
But that's the thing -- I did a VP demo at an Apple store, and I had none of the issues you describe. Both the pass through and the apps were perfectly clear. Not sure what is causing those issues for you, but it's not experienced by every user. So I'm not surprised if Apple didn't find those problems in their internal testing.
 

Rychiar

macrumors 68040
May 16, 2006
3,089
6,558
Waterbury, CT
But that's the thing -- I did a VP demo at an Apple store, and I had none of the issues you describe. Both the pass through and the apps were perfectly clear. Not sure what is causing those issues for you, but it's not experienced by every user. So I'm not surprised if Apple didn't find those problems in their internal testing.
The 7 or 8 pages of responses on the post i made about it on day one here would say otherwise lol. I wouldn’t trust trials in stores. They’re well lit and People probably don’t do anything that would make it glaringly obvious and write it off in those trials in their excitement of trying it
 
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OriginalAppleGuy

Suspended
Sep 25, 2016
968
1,137
Virginia
I didn’t notice it much in store. Wasn’t until I got home where it seemed prevalent. Wonder, had I not read about it here first, would I have noticed?
 

mmalto

macrumors regular
Mar 6, 2008
143
16
The 7 or 8 pages of responses on the post i made about it on day one here would say otherwise lol. I wouldn’t trust trials in stores. They’re well lit and People probably don’t do anything that would make it glaringly obvious and write it off in those trials in their excitement of trying it
i had the exact same experience as you. the demo is very well curated. you are so excited someone could be offering a million bucks and you probably wouldnt notice. that said, the reflection/glare got to me on day 2 once i got it home. my first surprise was losing hand tracking controls in darkness (ie the bedroom after my wife went to bed and i wanted to watch a movie). sorry apple but i cant turn a light on while my wife is sleeping. the next issue was safari in a dark background enviromeny. even watching atv+ content or dis+ was way distracting. i kept taking them off to see if they were smudged. i still swear i saw my eyeball reflection a couple times.

the funny thing is that no one at the apple store had anyone return a avp because of this (i was apparently the first). i didnt have the 5 min return. they had to call a manager who tried to talk me into a different light seal. i had already tried that a couple days before so i wasnt hearing it. they did let me try a demo unit that i did see the same issue since they let me do what i wanted. they did hook it up using the dev strap to run tests but i have no clue what they did besides mirror my display. i tried everything i could do to no avail. played around with every combo of settings in both settings and accessibility. even mirroing my mbp was blurry and hard to read the text. theres no way i could work all day using them.

i do have a og vive with gear lenses, index, psvr and a q2 and q3 so this isnt my first rodeo with "spatial computing".

i do have return remorse and keep checking to see if someone either posts a fix or an update comes out so i can go rebuy them. i have a feeling that wont happen to gen2.
 

rhemy123

macrumors regular
Oct 12, 2021
233
175
i had the exact same experience as you. the demo is very well curated. you are so excited someone could be offering a million bucks and you probably wouldnt notice. that said, the reflection/glare got to me on day 2 once i got it home. my first surprise was losing hand tracking controls in darkness (ie the bedroom after my wife went to bed and i wanted to watch a movie). sorry apple but i cant turn a light on while my wife is sleeping. the next issue was safari in a dark background enviromeny. even watching atv+ content or dis+ was way distracting. i kept taking them off to see if they were smudged. i still swear i saw my eyeball reflection a couple times.

the funny thing is that no one at the apple store had anyone return a avp because of this (i was apparently the first). i didnt have the 5 min return. they had to call a manager who tried to talk me into a different light seal. i had already tried that a couple days before so i wasnt hearing it. they did let me try a demo unit that i did see the same issue since they let me do what i wanted. they did hook it up using the dev strap to run tests but i have no clue what they did besides mirror my display. i tried everything i could do to no avail. played around with every combo of settings in both settings and accessibility. even mirroing my mbp was blurry and hard to read the text. theres no way i could work all day using them.

i do have a og vive with gear lenses, index, psvr and a q2 and q3 so this isnt my first rodeo with "spatial computing".

i do have return remorse and keep checking to see if someone either posts a fix or an update comes out so i can go rebuy them. i have a feeling that wont happen to gen2.
The glare is definitely a problem. I’m hoping their will be a fix for it—especially sense it‘s not something that apple wouldn’t know about before releasing the product. However, I’ve found my eyes getting used to the screens the more I use the device. I just tilt my head to keep the glare either at the top or the bottom of the lenses. It’s really weird that Apple would create the cinema environment knowing about the glare.
 

i'm the mac daddy

macrumors member
Jul 19, 2019
45
75
Massachusetts
I'm really hoping in gen2 they add coatings to reduce glare just like they apply to telescope eyepieces. it won't completely eliminate it. Not sure about the pancake design but if there's a way to not have a concave lens closest to the user that would also significantly reduce the glare.
 

Dovahkiing

macrumors 6502
Nov 1, 2013
483
473
I'm really hoping in gen2 they add coatings to reduce glare just like they apply to telescope eyepieces. it won't completely eliminate it. Not sure about the pancake design but if there's a way to not have a concave lens closest to the user that would also significantly reduce the glare.
The Quest 3 has much less pronounced reflections, so it’s definitely possible to reduce the issue. Unfortunately I am skeptical it can be fixed in software. I think it’s a hardware issue w/ the lens design.
 

someone33

macrumors member
Sep 17, 2014
92
87
One thing they could do is alter certain immersive environments like the cinema one to reduce glare. That one in particular really amplifies the glare unnecessarily, which is too bad because it's otherwise a great environment.
 
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