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smooth0906

macrumors member
Original poster
Nov 9, 2012
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54
Hello everyone. How long do you think 8GB of RAM will be enough to do basic functions with the MacBook Airs And Pros without a slow down? The reason I ask is because Best Buy has the MacBook Air 15 inch 8 GB Ram, 256 GB Hard Driver 999.00 My friend has a 2020 MacBook Pro 13 inch, 8 GB Ram, 256 GB Hard Drive. When She uses Zoom for her HOA Board Meetings and her Zumba Classes, She says the laptop gets hot, fan kicks on high, and battery life is very dismal. I was thinking about getting her the 15 inch MacBook Air since Best Buy has them for 999.00 right now. I'm sure the 15 inch MacBook Air would have no problems with Zoom Meetings. But I'm not sure in a few years that 8 GB Ram will be enough even to just have her Zoom meetings without beach balling. Any advice would be gladly accepted. Thank you in advance.
 
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Iwavvns

macrumors 6502a
Dec 11, 2023
687
968
Earth
Hello everyone. How long do you think 8GB will be enough to do basic functions with the MacBook Airs And Pros without a slow down?
I think this would involve the definition of the phrase "basic functions". For someone, like me, who does web browsing and office work, but hates movies/tv, social media and gaming, then 8 GB on my MBA M1 2020 is more than enough. However, for someone who is a video editor or a gamer then 16 GB will likely not be enough.
 
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Bigwaff

Contributor
Sep 20, 2013
2,740
1,830
Hello everyone. How long do you think 8GB will be enough to do basic functions with the MacBook Airs And Pros without a slow down?
Sonoma runs just fine on 2020 MBA i3 w/ 8GB memory... and the 2020 MBA i3 is the lamest MBA in existence. My wife and kids use the MBA all the time to surf the web, read email, watch YouTube, etc... "basic functions". It's going to be long while before Apple ups the base configuration to higher than 8GB memory. The ridiculous profit margin on upgrading memory is too good for Apple to pass up.
 

AlexJaye

macrumors 6502a
Jul 13, 2010
613
1,091
My M1 MacBook Pro 8GB is constantly using GIGS of Swap RAM for basic things like Safari, Spotify, Messenger, Mail, etc etc etc. 8gb is not enough, and Apple really should be shamed into making 16gb the bare minimum and to drop the price for RAM upgrades at purchase.
 

Bigwaff

Contributor
Sep 20, 2013
2,740
1,830
My M1 MacBook Pro 8GB is constantly using GIGS of Swap RAM for basic things
Nothing wrong with system paging to disk. It’s one strategy for how modern operating systems manage resources. The drama over “swap will kill your ssd” is overblown.

Using swap does not indicate any issues. It’s heaving paging in/out of swap which indicates the system might need more memory. Check memory pressure stats. In Activity Monitor, if memory pressure is consistently red, it could indicate the system needs more memory… or just quit some apps.
 

smooth0906

macrumors member
Original poster
Nov 9, 2012
84
54
Nothing wrong with system paging to disk. It’s one strategy for how modern operating systems manage resources. The drama over “swap will kill your ssd” is overblown.

Using swap does not indicate any issues. It’s heaving paging in/out of swap which indicates the system might need more memory. Check memory pressure stats. In Activity Monitor, if memory pressure is consistently red, it could indicate the system needs more memory… or just quit some apps.
That's what AlexJaye is stating. The system does need more memory and they may not have a lot of apps open.
 
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chabig

macrumors G4
Sep 6, 2002
11,449
9,321
8GB works fine for me. It depends what you do with the machine.


Screenshot 2024-02-03 at 1.14.14 PM.png
 

Moreplease

macrumors member
Jan 20, 2024
52
62
My friend has a 2020 MacBook Pro 13 inch, 8 GB Ram, 256 GB Hard Drive. When She uses Zoom for her HOA Board Meetings and her Zumba Classes, She says the laptop gets hot, fan kicks on high, and battery life is very dismal.
If it’s getting hot, it’s doing work. If it’s doing work, it’s not starved of data to do work on.

I can’t think of a case where more RAM would make a computer run cooler. It’s usually the opposite, because more RAM may remove a performance bottleneck – unleashing the CPU to work faster.
 

smooth0906

macrumors member
Original poster
Nov 9, 2012
84
54
If it’s getting hot, it’s doing work. If it’s doing work, it’s not starved of data to do work on.

I can’t think of a case where more RAM would make a computer run cooler. It’s usually the opposite, because more RAM may remove a performance bottleneck – unleashing the CPU to work faster.
My point is it's getting too hot and it's hurting her battery life. My question is how long will 8 Gigs of Ram hold up in a few years down the line with O/S upgrades that will use more memory for apps to function.
 

TechRunner

macrumors 65816
Oct 28, 2016
1,345
2,327
SW Florida, US
I'm into my fourth year on an 8/256 M1 Mini for basic tasks and light photo editing with no issues. The hardest I typically task it is having 15 or 20 tabs open in Safari while also using Photos and Spotify.
 
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smirking

macrumors 68040
Aug 31, 2003
3,942
4,009
Silicon Valley
Here's the thing. Not every slowdown is because of RAM, but everyone only knows to suspect RAM whenever there's a problem. Will 8GB be the mark of an unusable machine in 5 years? Doubtful. Will it potentially cause you to have to live with some compromises? Yes.

How bad will those compromises be? You may need to quit some programs to run others if things slow down. How bad will the slowdown be? Probably not as bad as you think. I'm currently using a machine that's half the RAM I really need. My memory pressure is almost always yellow.

Most of the time I don't notice anything wrong. There are a few things that aren't as smooth like when I swap screen spaces on a 5K external monitor. There's an occasional stutter, but it hardly makes the laptop unusuable.

If you're going to be doing something in 5 years time that would be untenable on that machine, it's likely that it wasn't going to be a great experience even if you had much more RAM on it.

There's a lot of people out there killin it on 8GB Macs doing way more than the basics so you'll be fine for the basics.
 

Moreplease

macrumors member
Jan 20, 2024
52
62
My point is it's getting too hot and it's hurting her battery life.
I got it. I was trying to explain that it’s getting hot because the app is doing a lot of work (even if partially due to coding inefficiencies). More RAM won’t make it run any cooler or last longer on battery. In fact the opposite is true to the extent that more RAM would help performance.

My question is how long will 8 Gigs of Ram hold up in a few years down the line with O/S upgrades that will use more memory for apps to function.
Hard to predict, but I would not expect much change until the last supported OS, which whether by design or inevitability tends to run less well.

The bigger issue is that web browsing is no longer a light activity but often the most demanding work home computers see. YouTube now has 8K video streaming. Web apps span the gamut from light to very demanding of CPU, GPU, and memory. I would expect that to get worse over the next five years. Doesn’t mean an 8 GB machine would become unusable but perhaps a little compromised: for example, requiring the user to close other apps and unused browser tabs (which are good decluttering habits anyway, in my opinion).
 
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AlexJaye

macrumors 6502a
Jul 13, 2010
613
1,091
Nothing wrong with system paging to disk. It’s one strategy for how modern operating systems manage resources. The drama over “swap will kill your ssd” is overblown.

Using swap does not indicate any issues. It’s heaving paging in/out of swap which indicates the system might need more memory. Check memory pressure stats. In Activity Monitor, if memory pressure is consistently red, it could indicate the system needs more memory… or just quit some apps.
The memory pressure increases to Yellow/Orange with basic Apple apps including Safari with a few tabs open. 8GB is not sufficient for basic computing in 2024, I'm sorry, but it is what it is. A user should not have to close a basic app for the system to not be pressured.

Maybe 8GB of RAM in 2024 is good enough for Maw-Maw who uses the Photos app to see pics of her grandchildren from NYE.

The other real crime is the surcharge that Apple still places on increasing RAM from the base configuration.
 
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Fishrrman

macrumors Penryn
Feb 20, 2009
29,239
13,313
OP:

Click your heels together and repeat this three times:
With the m-series Macs,
16 is "the new 8" ...
 

smirking

macrumors 68040
Aug 31, 2003
3,942
4,009
Silicon Valley
Maybe 8GB of RAM in 2024 is good enough for Maw-Maw who uses the Photos app to see pics of her grandchildren from NYE.

I’m a dev and I compiled software on an 8GB 2018 i5 MBA. People have a grossly exaggerated fear of yellow memory pressure. Your computer doesn’t grind to a halt. Quite frankly, most of the time you won’t even notice because the user is the greatest source of lag.
 

AlexJaye

macrumors 6502a
Jul 13, 2010
613
1,091
I’m a dev and I compiled software on an 8GB 2018 i5 MBA. People have a grossly exaggerated fear of yellow memory pressure. Your computer doesn’t grind to a halt. Quite frankly, most of the time you won’t even notice because the user is the greatest source of lag.
I understand that there are people who will defend Apple for basically anything, but 8GB of RAM, especially in their machines marketed as "Pro", in 2024 is an embarrassment, honestly. The phones will soon have more RAM. It wouldn't be such an issue if their uncharge for increasing RAM weren't such a bizarre rip-off of the customer, but that is where we are at.
 

saudor

macrumors 68000
Jul 18, 2011
1,512
2,115
If you have to ask, it'll be fine. Granted my friend using it for school destroyed their SSD with on 8gb with swap in 2 years (was swapping 20gb+ with chrome tabs lol) but the computer was still functional even at 3% health and they got a new computer by that time.

Apple knows this. By the time the SSD starts presenting an issue, the upgrade itch sets in.
 

theluggage

macrumors G3
Jul 29, 2011
8,012
8,444
I’m a dev and I compiled software on an 8GB 2018 i5 MBA.
...and I've "compiled software" on a 4GB Raspberry Pi. It's no longer the litmus test of a powerful personal computer. Outside of "professional" jobs like video/3D production or AI training, I'd say that web browsing was now the biggest resource drain, since every web page seems to "need" a ton of interpreted scripts and multiple automatically-playing videos and animations. Even if you deploy ad blockers etc. the good old days when site designers tried to shave every spare kilobyte off the images, or restrict videos to 12fps, so they would download on a 28k modem are long gone, in favour of retina-resolution images and websites with photographic backgrounds.

8GB was already the sensible minimum for "serious" work circa 2011 (MacBook Pros came with 4GB but, back then, could be easily upgraded). Since then, for one thing, we've gone from 110ppi screens to mostly 220ppi screens - a 4x increase in the size of bitmap/video files (and that's ignoring things like HDR) - that's not just affecting the size of application icon files and downloaded images, but the off-screen bitmaps that many applications use for rendering.

We've also seen processors gaining more and more cores : cores process data, they don't chew the cud, so that data has to come from somewhere and go somewhere. That means more memory. I wouldn't choose the industry rule of thumb of "4GB per core" as a hill to die on (probably true of specific server/multiuser workloads - but still an over-simplification) but the principle is there.

The M-series does have super-fast SSD access, which helps data throughput & makes virtual memory more efficient - but even fast SSD is still an order of magnitude slower than RAM.

If your Mac is actively swapping then it is being slowed down by lack of RAM. Full stop - except to note that "actively swapping" refers to the page fault rate, not "swap used". Apple have helpfully removed "page fault rate" from Activity Monitor in the interests of dumbing-down, but it is presumably one of the factors behind "memory pressure".

Simply put, in 2024, 8GB of RAM (and a $200 premium to upgrade) is cutting corners for a $1600-$1800 "pro" computer - even if you just take the "pro" to mean "an improvement over entry level". You can cherry pick exceptions, but most remotely comparable laptop PCs (such as Dell XPS or Lenovo Thinkbooks) in that price range now start at 16GB and/or offer cheaper upgrades (and, yes, its the same commodity LPDDR memory, just soldered to the board rather than the processor). You could make an argument for the base M1 Air or the $600 Mini, maybe, but even there its laughable that the better models still only come with 8GB.

Or, to put it another way, since 2012 the default RAM size hasn't budged an inch (and the default SSD size has only improved slightly) while virtually every other specification has improved drastically. Faster processors process more data, and even the base M1/M2 are now fast processors that deserve a decent amount of RAM. There's no evidence from the rest of the PC market that RAM and SSD haven't seen the same sort of price/performance advance as the rest of technology - and although the way Apple connects RAM and SSD to the processor is a bit different, the LPDDR5x RAM and flash memory they use is perfectly standard.
 

smooth0906

macrumors member
Original poster
Nov 9, 2012
84
54
I'm into my fourth year on an 8/256 M1 Mini for basic tasks and light photo editing with no issues. The hardest I typically task it is having 15 or 20 tabs open in Safari while also using Photos and Spotify.
She has a 2020 MacBook Pro intel. Your machine and hers are two completely different machines. The M1 MacBook Pro's are more efficient with memory than the intel's. For tasks, the M1 is superior over the 2020 13 inch intel.
 

smooth0906

macrumors member
Original poster
Nov 9, 2012
84
54
...and I've "compiled software" on a 4GB Raspberry Pi. It's no longer the litmus test of a powerful personal computer. Outside of "professional" jobs like video/3D production or AI training, I'd say that web browsing was now the biggest resource drain, since every web page seems to "need" a ton of interpreted scripts and multiple automatically-playing videos and animations. Even if you deploy ad blockers etc. the good old days when site designers tried to shave every spare kilobyte off the images, or restrict videos to 12fps, so they would download on a 28k modem are long gone, in favour of retina-resolution images and websites with photographic backgrounds.

8GB was already the sensible minimum for "serious" work circa 2011 (MacBook Pros came with 4GB but, back then, could be easily upgraded). Since then, for one thing, we've gone from 110ppi screens to mostly 220ppi screens - a 4x increase in the size of bitmap/video files (and that's ignoring things like HDR) - that's not just affecting the size of application icon files and downloaded images, but the off-screen bitmaps that many applications use for rendering.

We've also seen processors gaining more and more cores : cores process data, they don't chew the cud, so that data has to come from somewhere and go somewhere. That means more memory. I wouldn't choose the industry rule of thumb of "4GB per core" as a hill to die on (probably true of specific server/multiuser workloads - but still an over-simplification) but the principle is there.

The M-series does have super-fast SSD access, which helps data throughput & makes virtual memory more efficient - but even fast SSD is still an order of magnitude slower than RAM.

If your Mac is actively swapping then it is being slowed down by lack of RAM. Full stop - except to note that "actively swapping" refers to the page fault rate, not "swap used". Apple have helpfully removed "page fault rate" from Activity Monitor in the interests of dumbing-down, but it is presumably one of the factors behind "memory pressure".

Simply put, in 2024, 8GB of RAM (and a $200 premium to upgrade) is cutting corners for a $1600-$1800 "pro" computer - even if you just take the "pro" to mean "an improvement over entry level". You can cherry pick exceptions, but most remotely comparable laptop PCs (such as Dell XPS or Lenovo Thinkbooks) in that price range now start at 16GB and/or offer cheaper upgrades (and, yes, its the same commodity LPDDR memory, just soldered to the board rather than the processor). You could make an argument for the base M1 Air or the $600 Mini, maybe, but even there its laughable that the better models still only come with 8GB.

Or, to put it another way, since 2012 the default RAM size hasn't budged an inch (and the default SSD size has only improved slightly) while virtually every other specification has improved drastically. Faster processors process more data, and even the base M1/M2 are now fast processors that deserve a decent amount of RAM. There's no evidence from the rest of the PC market that RAM and SSD haven't seen the same sort of price/performance advance as the rest of technology - and although the way Apple connects RAM and SSD to the processor is a bit different, the LPDDR5x RAM and flash memory they use is perfectly standard.
Thank you for your great reply.
 

smooth0906

macrumors member
Original poster
Nov 9, 2012
84
54
Here's the thing. Not every slowdown is because of RAM, but everyone only knows to suspect RAM whenever there's a problem. Will 8GB be the mark of an unusable machine in 5 years? Doubtful. Will it potentially cause you to have to live with some compromises? Yes.

How bad will those compromises be? You may need to quit some programs to run others if things slow down. How bad will the slowdown be? Probably not as bad as you think. I'm currently using a machine that's half the RAM I really need. My memory pressure is almost always yellow.

Most of the time I don't notice anything wrong. There are a few things that aren't as smooth like when I swap screen spaces on a 5K external monitor. There's an occasional stutter, but it hardly makes the laptop unusuable.

If you're going to be doing something in 5 years time that would be untenable on that machine, it's likely that it wasn't going to be a great experience even if you had much more RAM on it.

There's a lot of people out there killin it on 8GB Macs doing way more than the basics so you'll be fine for the basics.
Do you consider using Zoom to be a basic? That's what is mainly causing her 8 GB 2020 13 inch intel to get hot and decreases her battery life immensely.
 

smooth0906

macrumors member
Original poster
Nov 9, 2012
84
54
OP:

Click your heels together and repeat this three times:
With the m-series Macs,
16 is "the new 8" ...
I purchased the 16 inch, 16 GB Ram, 512Gb hard Drive MacBook Pro M2 last August. The same machine with the M3 chip now has a start of 18 GB Ram. That 2 GB upgrade may tell you something about where Apple is going with Ram.
 

TechRunner

macrumors 65816
Oct 28, 2016
1,345
2,327
SW Florida, US
She has a 2020 MacBook Pro intel. Your machine and hers are two completely different machines. The M1 MacBook Pro's are more efficient with memory than the intel's. For tasks, the M1 is superior over the 2020 13 inch intel.
While that is true, you were asking about 8Gb of RAM in a 15" AS MBA, so I was trying to convey the RAM efficiency of the newer processors (SOC).
 
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