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Respond to Engadget's Lion Preview

RebootD

RebootD

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Jan 27, 2009
737
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NW Indiana
You can read the extensive preview of OSX Lion at their site.

I'd say I have to agree with many of their comments and wanted to see what the rest of you power tower users thought.

  1. Full screen apps are nice but overkill for ical etc.
  2. Gesture based interface really only works with multi-touch so if you don't have a magic mouse or trackpad they won't do anything. (Which I don't, I use a Wacom tablet)
  3. Thankfully most of the default changes can be turned on/off like no app light (to let you know what is running), dashboard on it's own "space" etc.
  4. Personally I use spotlight or my dock for launching apps and I really don't get the whole iOS dashboard icon grid.

Honestly I like to upgrade asap (I'm impatient) but having most of the 'features' being pointless (for me) and not knowing if Lion will break CS5, I am definitely holding off.
 
I'm really looking forward to "resume" and full disk encryption. Internet accounts and Full-screen apps (where appropriate) would also be useful.

I personally won't use multi-user remote desktop, but I could see it being valuable to others. Imagine a few old G4 Mac Minis with the power of a Mac Pro behind them, even while the local Mac Pro user is using the Mac Pro simultaneously. Finally something for all those cores to do!
 
Things I'm most looking forward to:
- New Mail.app
- TRIM for SSD's
- Multi-user remote computing

I'm all in favor of changes that make the OS easier for new users (particularly those coming from iOS devices) such as the Launchpad, Airdrop, Gestures, etc. A larger and growing Mac User base is a great thing. :)
 
I'm concerned about how all the gestures would work for those without a trackpad.

I don't like the whole icon list either. Don't see the point in that.
 
Some good points here! I really am excited about the revamp of Mail (Finally a horizontal layout!) and 'Resume' could be useful as well.

I think I was too focused on the whole UI change (gestures, iOS icon grids etc)
 
I'm all for UI changes...as long as they can be optional. Or if they're unequivocally for the better (like resizing windows from any corner).

Change is good, but as long as they allow power users to do things in a less newbie-friendly way, it'll be fine.

TRIM is long overdue and thankfully arriving; resolution independence is also exciting.
 
Also looking forward to:
Redesigned Finder
Folder merging (finally!!!)
Window resizing from any corner or edge of the window

I will miss:
Rosetta (yes I still use it)
Front Row (there are probably decent alternatives)
 
ActionableMango said:
Also looking forward to:
Redesigned Finder
Folder merging (finally!!!)
Window resizing from any corner or edge of the window

I will miss:
Rosetta (yes I still use it)
Front Row (there are probably decent alternatives)
Click to expand...

Hi,

If you must keep Rosetta, I'd keep snow leopard on a separate partition or dedicated drive, so that all your powerpc app needs can still function.. As of now I have the feeling that Rosetta isn't going to be supported in the final Lion release.. All attempts of trying to slip stream rosetta's 3-10mb package from snow leopard have failed.. I can't seem to get rosetta to install.
 
ActionableMango said:
I'm really looking forward to "resume" and full disk encryption.
Click to expand...

Full Disk Encryption is retarded. Encrypting the OS is stupid because anyone can get it anyway - encrypt your own files.

Plus, I can't wait for the first person that uses FDE to be hit with something like the infamous "Invalid B-tree node size" error that keeps their machine from booting. They boot from their Disk Warrior CD in desperation only to have Disk Warrior go "WTF is this ****???" since it doesn't grok FDE. :eek:
 
Riot Nrrrd said:
Full Disk Encryption is retarded.
Click to expand...

Retarded? What are you, 10 years old?

The reason why I like FDE is that files that are opened, viewed, and edited can be recorded in unencrypted areas such as swap files, scratch files, and other temporary file types. Different programs use different methods and locations.

When encrypted files are opened or edited, the information is decrypted and often placed in a temporary location. This means the information you took the time to encrypt is saved IN THE CLEAR in a temporary file, many of which are not cleaned up. Someone who has stolen your laptop for example, can get the information from your last session at a minimum, and quite possibly more than that.

It's like keeping your gold in a vault at Fort Knox, except the last week's deliveries of gold are stored outside the fort in an unlocked shed.

FDE ensures that no matter where or how your programs handle your data, permanently or temporarily, the data is encrypted.

Plus, I can't wait for the first person that uses FDE to be hit with something like the infamous "Invalid B-tree node size" error that keeps their machine from booting. They boot from their Disk Warrior CD in desperation only to have Disk Warrior go "WTF is this ****???" since it doesn't grok FDE.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry you can't wait for people's misery to occur. No doubt you will enjoy it a lot and call them retarded.

In any case, I can't speak for OS X FDE because it isn't out yet, but for Windows there is a disk repair method for encrypted disks.
 
vincenz said:
I'm concerned about how all the gestures would work for those without a trackpad.

I don't like the whole icon list either. Don't see the point in that.
Click to expand...

whats funny is i just got the app QUICKPICK from mac bundles and it is the SAME thing as their icon list !
 
Assuming Resume works with any application (presume for the moment it does), then this would be a really great feature for users IMO.

Particularly say a professional that was working on a large job (i.e. batch processing), and the power failed (no UPS, or it didn't provide enough time to get everything saved and shut down). Resume would be a lot easier for them as the software would pick up where it left off, rather than the user have to re-perform work that was lost (assuming this feature wasn't included in the application).
 
ActionableMango said:
Retarded? What are you, 10 years old?

I'm sorry you can't wait for people's misery to occur. No doubt you will enjoy it a lot and call them retarded.

In any case, I can't speak for OS X FDE because it isn't out yet, but for Windows there is a disk repair method for encrypted disks.
Click to expand...

So because you don't understand the modern slang usage of the phrase "retarded", you resort to ad-hominems? Who is the 10 year old here? :rolleyes:

Then, instead of rebutting my technical arguments ("I can't speak for OS X FDE") you insult me again?

There are several places on the 'Net - both on Apple's Discussion boards as well as PGP's own site/boards - that talk about how you cannot boot from a DiskWarrior CD to repair a system with a disk that uses FDE.

I have no problem with encrypting data files (e.g. FileVault). But FDE interferes with the operation of the system at its very lowest levels, namely reading/writing the disk. I can recite a litany of offenses that make this a Really Bad Idea™ (performance impact, making your system beholden to a 3rd party vendor, aforementioned problems with repair utilities, etc.). If you think having encrypted swap files is worth that sort of trade-off, well ...
 
I like the new icon interface. I've been using a similar thing since 10.5. Put App aliases in a folder and drag it into the dock as a stack.

Also look forward to Resume.
 
nanofrog said:
Assuming Resume works with any application (presume for the moment it does), then this would be a really great feature for users IMO.
Click to expand...

I think I read some words somewhere that mentioned it has to be developer implemented. That was in an early "impressions" of OS X Lion article when Apple first announced it.

On topic, some of these features sound nifty. But there are a few I hope can be deactivated without too much Terminal wizardry. I'm not fussed on the window resizing from any sides, in Windows and Ubuntu I'm forever accidentally resizing windows when I just want to move them.
 
Riot Nrrrd said:
So because you don't understand the modern slang usage of the phrase "retarded", you resort to ad-hominems? Who is the 10 year old here? :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

You are correct, I apologize for the ad-hominem attack. I needed to belittle you and it was wrong. When you stated that FDE is retarded, you implied (perhaps inadvertently) that everyone who uses FDE is retarded, and I took it personally. Maybe you didn't mean it that way, but it still seems implied to me.

Here is my reasoning.

FDE works great for me on Windows, and has so for years. There is a disk recovery method, but I've never needed it. I also have backups.

The fact that access to the data can occur is actually unimportant believe it or not. Loss of access is equivalent to data loss. Data loss can occur any number of ways, including a simple hard drive failure. Even RAIDs can fail. This is what backups are for. A backup strategy should be implemented regardless of whether you are using FDE or not. I have had two hard drives fail that weren't backed up. Both events were over 10 years ago, and I feel that loss even today. Backup, backup, backup.

A friend of mine works at a place where FDE is actually required for certain positions, including his. So yes, some data is absolutely worth being 100% encrypted.

Another benefit is one of simple convenience. You enter the password once, at bootup, and don't have to bother again. You don't have to mount encrypted containers as virtual drives, you don't have to enter a password each time you access a new encrypted container. Just encrypt the entire thing.

FDE works great for me on Windows, and I hope it's as well implemented in Lion. I don't use PGP, and Lion isn't out yet, so I can't speak for those implementations of FDE.
 
inigel said:
I think I read some words somewhere that mentioned it has to be developer implemented. That was in an early "impressions" of OS X Lion article when Apple first announced it.
Click to expand...
This wouldn't surprise me (need to call on the correct API/s), which is why I worded it the way I did. I expect we'll find out for sure in the not too distant future, when the final release is reviewed. ;)
 
vincenz said:
I'm concerned about how all the gestures would work for those without a trackpad.
Click to expand...


Marcel%20Marceau.jpg
 
Riot Nrrrd said:
There are several places on the 'Net - both on Apple's Discussion boards as well as PGP's own site/boards - that talk about how you cannot boot from a DiskWarrior CD to repair a system with a disk that uses FDE.
Click to expand...

Considering that the OSX implementation of FDE is rather new that's not exactly surprising. It's like complaining that fdisk doesnt do GPT and you need to use parted. The right tools and updated tools will come.

I have no problem with encrypting data files (e.g. FileVault). But FDE interferes with the operation of the system at its very lowest levels, namely reading/writing the disk.
Click to expand...

No, that would have to be hardware based FDE, which also exists.

I can recite a litany of offenses that make this a Really Bad Idea™ (performance impact, making your system beholden to a 3rd party vendor, aforementioned problems with repair utilities, etc.). If you think having encrypted swap files is worth that sort of trade-off, well ...
Click to expand...

And here is where you go off the deep end. If I'm already going to take the encryption performance hit I'd like my data to actually be secure, and that means swap, RAM, tmp, etc. And yes, there really are people that work on sensitive info for which this is good, and necessary.

You don't want it? Don't use it, but don't be childish and whiny about it.
 
At first I thought this would be cool, but now I find the dashboard icon thing extremely limited and more useless than useful.
 
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