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Restoring system from TM to external APFS?
- Thread starter toke lahti
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Can Mojave be booted from hfs+ disk?
Since if I boot from external APFS, I will not have TM backups anymore.
Or at least I can't restore from TM to external drive again.
Funny that it seems to be okay for Applt to let user know, that TM backups "are just fine", but then when you need to restore from them, it reminds the user that, "we got your data, but we won't give it back. Because we need this security from SIP+T2+APFS, you didn't know to need them before, but now you do. Instead your old macs, they don't need those."
I need to upgrade the CCC...
Since if I boot from external APFS, I will not have TM backups anymore.
Or at least I can't restore from TM to external drive again.
Funny that it seems to be okay for Applt to let user know, that TM backups "are just fine", but then when you need to restore from them, it reminds the user that, "we got your data, but we won't give it back. Because we need this security from SIP+T2+APFS, you didn't know to need them before, but now you do. Instead your old macs, they don't need those."
I need to upgrade the CCC...
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Yes.
What exactly are you trying to accomplish? It does not matter if your boot volume is internal or external. You can still restore from Time Machine.
I'm trying to accomplish an impossible thing:
Running a basic desktop Mac free of apple tax of soldered ssd storage.
(Doomed to failure.)
I originally thought that everything is like years before.
You boot from whatever disk and then be happy with it.
But, "new rules of Apple" tells me, that you have to have your homedir in startup drive, or you'll never gonna be able to fix permission issues, if they occur:
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT203538
And believe me, running macOS from internal ssd, when homedir is in external ssd, will lead to a BIG problem.
I'm trying to find out if it's about local corrupted TM backups or what, but TM fails to have full backups and Mail doesn't show attachments of my IMAP mails (for 25 years now..).
I have checked that almost none of my mails in past 4 months are backed up by TM.
You can't fix that with Apple's DU, you can't clone the "corrupted" external drive with Apple's DU.
Or any APFS startup drive to another, so the clone remains bootable.
I'm just researching if CCC is helping (need to pay for upgrade).
What makes me angry, is that Apple hasn't documented the new restrictions.
When you move homedir in Prefences, there's now warning that moving homer to some other drive than startup drive, will lead to that, you can't repair homer's permissions.
Also, you can happily back up your system to TM, but it doesn't warn you, that you can't restore your system to external startup drive:
https://discussions.apple.com/thread/8417393
And of course, there's no mention that if you do the "illegal thing", put your homedir in another drive than startup drive, your TM backups are not working.
Also, you can't clone your APFS startup drive to external drive, to have that new external drive to be bootable.
At least with Apple's Disk Utility.
It took 6 hours form my new mini to clone startup drive to another drive.
I checked from Activity Monitor that it took over 3TB to read and 3TB to write for 550GB of data from a startup drive to another drive. And it ended to an error.
I've also tried to fix the permissions, or whatever, with supported, but undocumented terminal command or with Disk Utility's First Aid, but after 24 hours it was still not done and almost all of the time DU is "not responding". This is for the external 1TB ssd (with speeds that exceeds 100MB/S) and what was first for just homedir and then, when I was told that's "illegal", I installed the whole OS to it. So that the homedir is in same drive that is the startup drive, which is now the requirement for any support from Apple.
All this might be because of local corrupted TM backups in my external startup drive (1TB ssd through usb 3.1 (10Gb/s link)), but again, APFS is so undocumented and outside of "normal supported environment" (just booting from soldered internal drive), that Apple's Support gives no help whatsoever.
Really nice to have this new secret undocumented security things like SIP, T2 and APFS.
Apple has gone far from the original "open source" ideology what Mac OS X was...
Btw, when Apple stopped updating their man pages in web?
PS. I asked for support, if I could change my mini to one with bigger internal ssd, even with juicy apple tax on internal ssd, and they, of course, said, not possible.
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You can attach a big juicy external SSD to your machine and run everything on it. No problem. Follow these simple steps:
1. Attach the SSD. Format it as APFS, and install macOS. (If your machine has the T2 chip you will have to allow external booting).
2. When you reboot the machine from the external SSD, you'll be asked if you want to migrate from a previous system. You'll say yes and point to the saved Time Machine backup.
3. There is no step 3.
1. Attach the SSD. Format it as APFS, and install macOS. (If your machine has the T2 chip you will have to allow external booting).
2. When you reboot the machine from the external SSD, you'll be asked if you want to migrate from a previous system. You'll say yes and point to the saved Time Machine backup.
3. There is no step 3.
Btw, I cloned the "APFS-hell" ext. ssd to external hfs+ drive with CCC4.1.24 and it boots just fine.
When ever I get more info about which disk format works better with TM, I'll decide, if I need CCC upgrade...
I did read your post. It contained a lot of misinformation. Now I don't suggest that your system isn't messed up. But a lot of your complaints are not factual. That's why I asked you what exactly you are trying to accomplish. Often, there is a simple solution to problems that seem complicated. That's what I tried to offer in post #6.
I believe so, but if you're using an SSD then it's better to format it as APFS.
Booting from an external won't affect your Time Machine disk, or the backups on it.
Sure you can.
That's not impossible. Attach as big an SSD as you want and run from it.
You still can.
That is probably true, but irrelevant. The user accounts need to be on the boot drive, but you can keep plenty of data outside of the home folder, even on other drives.
So don't do that. Boot and run your system from the external and either don't use the internal storage or just keep other data on it.
CCC can clone bootable APFS volumes.
You can restore from Time Machine to any boot drive, external or not.
Carbon Copy Cloner can do that.
OP --
I don't know what you're doing, but it's CHILD'S PLAY to boot and run ANY Mac from an external SSD.
I've been doing it since January 2013 with my 2012 Mini -- has ALWAYS booted and run just fine (fast, too).
I did it with my old 2006 white Intel iMac.
I do it with my new 2018 Mini (with a t2 chip inside) -- not all the time, but when needed.
I can do it with my 2015 or 2010 MacBook Pro's when necessary.
Again, we have no idea what you're doing.
But my guess is... something that you're doing is incorrect or just plain wrong.
I don't know what you're doing, but it's CHILD'S PLAY to boot and run ANY Mac from an external SSD.
I've been doing it since January 2013 with my 2012 Mini -- has ALWAYS booted and run just fine (fast, too).
I did it with my old 2006 white Intel iMac.
I do it with my new 2018 Mini (with a t2 chip inside) -- not all the time, but when needed.
I can do it with my 2015 or 2010 MacBook Pro's when necessary.
Again, we have no idea what you're doing.
But my guess is... something that you're doing is incorrect or just plain wrong.
Pheew...
Well, I'm not trying to do anything else than just use my mac like normally. Also keep using TM.
Normally is not "Apples norm", since I need to use external disk as startup & homedirs 24/7.
That thread is from June 2018, so HS is in "very mature" state.
If somebody could post a same window in Mojave and there would not be that restriction, I'd be happy to wipe out my startupdrive, keep it in APFS and restore a Full backup from TM or migrate homedirs from hdd clone.
If the same restriction remains in Mojave, I will format the startup ssd to HFS+ and run it that way.
Well, I'm not trying to do anything else than just use my mac like normally. Also keep using TM.
Normally is not "Apples norm", since I need to use external disk as startup & homedirs 24/7.
That thread is from June 2018, so HS is in "very mature" state.
If somebody could post a same window in Mojave and there would not be that restriction, I'd be happy to wipe out my startupdrive, keep it in APFS and restore a Full backup from TM or migrate homedirs from hdd clone.
If the same restriction remains in Mojave, I will format the startup ssd to HFS+ and run it that way.
I guess that you are guessing that limitation is removed from Mojave.
Am I guessing right and are you guessing right?
Because if you know that limitation is removed, you'd have said it already, right?
I have 250GB int ssd.
Now it has:
/Apps 80GB
/Lib 75GB
/Sys 10GB
My main homefolder has:
~/Lib 40GB
the rest in that ext.ssd ~80GB and in ext.hdd (movies+music+pictures+workTMP=385+195+125+30)=735GB.
All these used to be inside an internal fusion drive in mini2012, backed up automatically by TM and no hassle at all for years...
Would you suggest, that I'd boot from internal, put my main homefolder in it, just leave ~/Lib in internal and all other folders to external?
Btw, I noticed that when I partitioned the clone destination, I forgot the "ignore ownership" on.
Will that be a problem for startup drive (in regular use)?
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You mean keep using the ext ssd as startup?
That's what I'm planning to do. I don't want to split my homedir any more than it is.
And there is something weird how APFS messed this ext ssd. Might have something to do that it had homedirs for two system: when booted from int and ext.
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I started a new thread about my ssd:
Deeply messed up APFS external ssd, what to do?
One helpful guy confirmed that restoring Mojave from TM to ext apfs works:
TM backups working with external startup drive?
Deeply messed up APFS external ssd, what to do?
One helpful guy confirmed that restoring Mojave from TM to ext apfs works:
TM backups working with external startup drive?
I think you are OVERTHINKING it way too much.
I replied to your messed up APFS thread. In summary - SSDs are too cheap to risk hardware failure, get a new one.
Now, as others said here, it is easy to run Mojave from external SSD. I did exactly this (and did not see this as any challenge). To get there I followed logical (age old for OSX/macOS) steps:
1. Connect SSD, format as APFS
2. Download Mojave installer from App store, run it and install Mojave on this external SSD. Note: my system has older T chip and to boot from external disk just worked.
3. Use Migration assistant to migrate from source of my choosing. Time Machine for example.
4. Run whole system from this external SSD for week.
Why? My internal SSD died. Needed to limp along before could get mainboard replaced under AppleCare. For once, AppleCare paid for itself ;-) So I used spare 1Tb USB-C NVME SSD to run off. Was surprisingly usable. Except the damned thing get really hot - so hot that I could burn myself if not careful.
Why not to restore from TM directly to new SSD? Without running installer on that disk the disk does not have boot partitions with proper images. TM restore assumes the disk has the partitions and does not create those on its own. So I had to run installer first (makes disk bootable correctly) and then migrate.
So, stop complaining about Apple Tax - you bought it knowing this.
You have two easy choices -
(1.) run whole system from external SSD - it is bit slower and I hate flimsy USB-C connectors for system drive.
(2.) run system from internal drive but store your home folder content (Documents, pictures, etc.) on external drive. Use Aliases for those external folders.
Both work same as they did before T-chips and APFS. My daughter with 0 computer skills runs her 2018 mini as (2.) and never complains. TM works. All works. No issues.
I won't stop complaining apple tax, why would I?
If Apple would sell mac's storage at same price than others, I would have bought 1TB internal.
Biggest "wrong" here is of course soldering storage to mb in desktop computer.
Also, if Apple would document their their new restrictions for new os versions or at least include warnings to their own GUI, I would not even tried to use new mini as "the whole homedir in other drive".
Actually, at apple's discussion, I've now had info about how diskutil works, and it might be a good choice to use that unsupported" config.
(2.) isn't choice for me, because
My int ssd now has:
/Apps 80GB
/Lib 75GB
/Sys 10GB
My main homefolder has:
~/Lib 40GB
Finder info tells that 69GB free (7GB purgeable, btw, how to purge that?).
Using TM backup is problematic, because it hasn't successfully backed up my mail in last 6 months.
Or at least that's how it looks like when you evoke TM from Mail.
Or, again, maybe it has now did that, since I got the Mail problem solved.
The whole thing started with Mail problems after migration and it sure looks like the best way to manage my massive mail amount (400k mails, although 300k in spam for teaching mail client what is spam) would be running an own imap server.
(Btw, does current MacOS Server software still have imap server?)
I never thought I'd had to do that. But Since Mail isn't getting any better and I already have something like 20k "corrupted" mail... I've waited a decade for Apple to be humble enough to add "reload from server" button to Mail, but Mail is perfect, you don't need that...
Well, I'm making last TM backup of the main user homedir (it now has working Mail) on that ssd, then check it with WD's software and then try to re-partition, install os again and migrate that main homedir from CCCclone...
This time, I think I will even remember to uncheck the "ignore ownership" button also.
Most clear lesson here is, don't rely on Apple's support to get out of trouble, if you are anything else than "0 computer skills" with one laptop with one internal drive. Even "external display" (yes, that's what they called the Mojave's & mini2018's problem with my monitor) is complicated for them these days. It took months for them to guess wrong solutions and finally raising their hands up.
They did not advice to check the integrity of TM backup, even they knew, that DU gets stuck, repairing permissions gets stuck and Mail is stuck. Just "make a clean isntall of everything". I'd lost some important mails there.
From these forums, I'd had help and solved the problems in April!
So thanks for the input!
OP:
You've been posting all over the place lately.
But your posts are jumbles of confusion.
How about telling us "what you want"?
What are you trying to achieve?
If you want a bootable external SSD... well... that's child's play.
If you want backups you can rely on... forget time machine and use either CarbonCopyCloner or SuperDuper.
You've been posting all over the place lately.
But your posts are jumbles of confusion.
How about telling us "what you want"?
What are you trying to achieve?
If you want a bootable external SSD... well... that's child's play.
If you want backups you can rely on... forget time machine and use either CarbonCopyCloner or SuperDuper.
I wanted to just use my new mini, like the old one before: worryfree, no "maintenance days", just big fusion drive and TimeMachine doing automatic backups.
All data under one logical drive and safe.
I did understand that this isn't fully possible with new mini. My plan was to have system in intSSD, homedir in extSSD and parts of homedir in extHDD.
I thought I have already explained this few time in some of my postings?
Then there were problems with Migration from 10.12>10.14.
Then there were problems with correcting permissions.
Disk Utily's first aid didn't work.
diskutil couldn't correct the extSSD either.
Wiped that extSSD clean,
installed 10.14. there again,
booting only from that extSSD now,
migrated homedir from clone,
deleted Mail's local IMAP folders, rebuilt, deleted Envelope files, Mail rebuilt the whole archive and it's now working, can see all attachments in old mails.
Disk Utility's First Aid now works, diskutil verify/repair now works, all is pretty good, except:
1) LG's 34WK95U-W, loudspeakers still don't wake up after mini's been sleeping (connection through tb)
2) diskutil resetUserPermissions / `id -u` still keeps spinning forever, I'll try to find reason with Apple's Support
3) superfast and superoverpriced intSSD does not do anything to speed my experience up.
Next thing is to see how hpOmen egpu would start kicking with older nVidia card... then perhaps some new AMD gpu with best power save ie. lowest energy consumption per gpumark...