Right to repair: Toyota FJ bleeding the brakes.

[PinkyMacGodess]

It's driving me nuts. Got all the goodies to do it myself, vacuum bleeder, calipers, pads, rotors. Got everything installed, go to bleed the brakes, NOPE. Ran the bleeder for over a half hour, just spits, no streams. Getting fluid through the system, but not enough to bleed the system. Can't get it to start because apparently the 'computer' says there isn't any brake fluid. (It's passed nearly 100 ounces, but no streams) One year required the brake pedal to be pumped 20+ times, and it's pretty solid now, but no bleeding properly.

So apparently I have to figure out how to get it to the local Toyota dealer so they can sweat talk it and get it to come back to life . I tried pulling the battery to 'reset the computer', and that's not enough apparently. Looking online shows a plethora of different models/years with different requirements to successfully bleed the brakes. It's a 2011, so it can't be all that sophisticated. Pulling the power seems to have shut the computer down now as none of the idiot lights come on now.

Oh for the days when bleeding brakes needed the wife inside pushing the brake pedal when told to. Now it seems you have to get a PhD and an engineer to just do something that was once so damn simple. GRRRR...

Anyone got any suggestions? Damn cars have gotten so 'fragile', complicated...

 

[OLDCODGER]

Just a thought, did you inadvertently disconnect a sensor for the brakes?

 

[Mousse]

I have an insane time trying to bleed the brakes with those vacuum bleeders. Lots and lots of bubbles.😖 I can never get a good seal around the bleeder, so air bubbles no matter how much brake fluid I go through.😠
The makeshift water bottle/fish tank hose method works better for me.

Have you checked the fuses? Never seen pulling the power blow out the fuse before. But then again, I have never heard of a car not starting because the brake fluid is empty before either.

Oh for the days when bleeding brakes needed the wife inside pushing the brake pedal when told to. Now it seems you have to get a PhD and an engineer to just do something that was once so damn simple. GRRRR...

I'm beginning to appreciate how easy it is to maintain my 20 year old truck and 10 year old car.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

Just a thought, did you inadvertently disconnect a sensor for the brakes?

Not that I'm aware of. Maybe I triggered something when I vacuumed out the master cylinder tank, but if I'm going to replace the calipers, I didn't want brake fluid running all over the place. (I think that's what did it. I remember hearing a pump sould when I turned on the car, and I don't hear it now)

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

I have an insane time trying to bleed the brakes with those vacuum bleeders. Lots and lots of bubbles.😖 I can never get a good seal around the bleeder, so air bubbles no matter how much brake fluid I go through.😠
The makeshift water bottle/fish tank hose method works better for me.

Have you checked the fuses? Never seen pulling the power blow out the fuse before. But then again, I have never heard of a car not starting because the brake fluid is empty before either.

I'm beginning to appreciate how easy it is to maintain my 20 year old truck and 10 year old car.

I did check the fuses. The one for the ABS is a larger 40 amp sucker, and I can't figure out how to get it out without potentially braking it. It looks intact, but I'll check it later.

I read where a guy online actually gravity bled an FJ similar to mine. Yeah, sure. I can't get the damn thing to do anything the usual way. And how long would a gravity bleed take on an empty brake system. A day? Two?

Apparently, from what I can tell, the FJ went through at least 4 different versions of brake systems, from full 'old school' to fully controlled, touch and you die. There is supposed to be a computer that will even 'auto-bleed' the brake system but it's supposedly nearly 2k. I hope it's just a simple thing, but it could be a disaster of epic financial proportions.

Right To Repair People!!! If I HAVE to take that thing to the dealer to get them to wave their magic wand over it to get it to work, it should be against the law! RIGHT to repair!

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

I have an insane time trying to bleed the brakes with those vacuum bleeders. Lots and lots of bubbles.😖 I can never get a good seal around the bleeder, so air bubbles no matter how much brake fluid I go through.😠
The makeshift water bottle/fish tank hose method works better for me.

Have you checked the fuses? Never seen pulling the power blow out the fuse before. But then again, I have never heard of a car not starting because the brake fluid is empty before either.

I'm beginning to appreciate how easy it is to maintain my 20 year old truck and 10 year old car.

The vacuum bleeder: I found that if I push it all of the way down onto the bleeder screw, it seals better, but I still don't get anything but spits and sputters. I did try a hand operated vacuum bleeder, and yeah I want to sit there pumping that thing for hours to try to bleed the brakes. No, I don't need that kind of hand development...

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

So resetting the computer didn't work. If anything, it made it worse.

So I'm off to find someone who can flatbed it to the dealer and have them use the 'Toyota Scan Tool' on it.

RIGHT TO REPAIR IS NO JOKE!! A simple brake job could end up costing hundreds of dollars!!

 

[velocityg4]

From what I can find. You need Toyota Techstream software and the car computer (OBD 2) to USB adapter. To run the brake bleeding on Toyota's with ABS.

I also found some mention of shops using some pressurized system. Which fits to the reservoir. Then pushes brake fluid into the system. While you pump the brakes.

07 Brake fluid fill and bleed from empty

www.fjcruiserforums.com

K800B Toyota / Lexus Brake Bleeder Kit - Speedi-Bleed

Pressure brake bleeder kit for Toyota & Lexus vehicles. Bleeding Toyota brakes just got a whole lot easier!

www.speedibleed.com

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

From what I can find. You need Toyota Techstream software and the car computer (OBD 2) to USB adapter. To run the brake bleeding on Toyota's with ABS.

I also found some mention of shops using some pressurized system. Which fits to the reservoir. Then pushes brake fluid into the system. While you pump the brakes.

07 Brake fluid fill and bleed from empty

www.fjcruiserforums.com

K800B Toyota / Lexus Brake Bleeder Kit - Speedi-Bleed

Pressure brake bleeder kit for Toyota & Lexus vehicles. Bleeding Toyota brakes just got a whole lot easier!

www.speedibleed.com

Thanks. I did some more searching and gave up. None of the articles and such that I found seemed to address my specific version of the ABS brake system. Most had a separate ABS controller, or didn't have one. Mine was actually built in to the bottom of the reservoir. It almost looks like there is no actual master cylinder, it's all some machined block of nastiness. I freaking hate having to give up, but I tried everything I could. I could have tried a pressure system, there are some on Amazon, but push, or pull, they do the same thing. I'll possibly know tomorrow what happened. Hopefully I can avoid a big expense to get this solved. SST's (special service tools) were just starting to come in to the car repair industry, and I was running into some really specific and Expensive tools. They were tailored to do a specific task that was likely designed around the necessity for a new tool. (Some you could do the function with other more common tools, but some were so specific. The only analogy I can think to use was one time the wife was in a wedding party. The colors chosen were 'subpar' and the bridesmaids were complaining about never being able to use the shoes and other 'parts' ever again. The wife just died them black and it took pretty well, surprisingly. Some of the tools I had to buy I still have. *groan*)

 

[Huntn]

I did check the fuses. The one for the ABS is a larger 40 amp sucker, and I can't figure out how to get it out without potentially braking it. It looks intact, but I'll check it later.

I read where a guy online actually gravity bled an FJ similar to mine. Yeah, sure. I can't get the damn thing to do anything the usual way. And how long would a gravity bleed take on an empty brake system. A day? Two?

Apparently, from what I can tell, the FJ went through at least 4 different versions of brake systems, from full 'old school' to fully controlled, touch and you die. There is supposed to be a computer that will even 'auto-bleed' the brake system but it's supposedly nearly 2k. I hope it's just a simple thing, but it could be a disaster of epic financial proportions.

Right To Repair People!!! If I HAVE to take that thing to the dealer to get them to wave their magic wand over it to get it to work, it should be against the law! RIGHT to repair!

There seems to be an issue, when manufacturers lock down systems so only they can repair. I first heard about it with tractors, proprietery software, that if jail broken voids the warranty.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

There seems to be an issue, when manufacturers lock down systems so only they can repair. I first heard about it with tractors, proprietery software, that if jail broken voids the warranty.

So here's what the dealer said: I did a professional job. Everything was done right. There is 'a trick' to bleeding those brake systems, when the calipers are replaced. (There always seems to be a trick to things, doesn't it)

I feel like I need to spread that trick far and wide in case others are faced with the same issue.

The Trick: Hook up hoses and bottles to all four calipers, open the bleeder screws and let them sit and gravity bleed. Vacuum bleeding them at the beginning almost always ends up triggering a 'high flow valve' in the ABS system, and it only allows small amounts of fluid to pass through. Gravity bleeding is the best way to avoid the valve, and get the calipers filed. Once the calipers are filled, it only takes about a minute per caliper with the vacuum bleeder (set really low, 5psi) to make sure the air is out. He said all but one caliper was full, and that one took just a few minutes to fill up. The bleed went quickly, and the pads were set in, and it's done. Touchy pedal now. Can stop on a dime if needed.

Apparently it's the 2012 on that have the computer issue potentially. My computer was fine, no codes. Yippee! I mean I feel good that I did a great job on the replacement, but odd that I got 'so close' at the end... *shrug* But having the brakes looked at is a bonus I guess. At least I know they approved the work.

But every time I have a 'learning experience', I ask myself if I would do it again. Replacing nearly the entire brake system was a job. It's not exactly easy, and most of the parts came with no directions, but I figured out how they should go together and got it done. It was a test of my mechanical abilities. Would I do it again? Hmm...

So does a 'trick' count as a problem with 'right to repair'? Hitting that flow valve was a surprise. All the videos I saw on the Tube showed flow as if there was no restriction. So doing it gentle and slow wins out. That is so true in so much of life, ain't it... I guess I should be grateful I didn't have a 2012, or I could be singing a different song.