RIM/Blackberry worth less than iOS App Store

[firewood]

Random news item:

http://brianshall.com/content/black...-app-store-not-iphone-not-ipad-not-mac-not-it

Says that the market cap of RIM today is less than the estimated market value of the App store.

Makes sense if iOS App store revenues are around $3B/annum and software distribution business is valued at 2X revenues. That might even be a conservative valuation.

So either it's a great time to be in the iPhone/iPad app business, or a terrible time to be attempting to sell BBs.

 

[chrono1081]

RIM is a great example of those companies that fail to innovate. They enjoyed their cushy spot as the first usable smart phones and then the iPhone came and RIM lost a descent amount of their casual users, but they still had a spot in the business world.

Then enhancements to the iPhone came, and Android came. Both are much better alternatives to Blackberry devices.

To close the gap, Microsoft surprised everyone with surprisingly nice Windows phones.

RIM essentially got squeezed out.

 

[firewood]

RIM is a great example of those companies that fail to innovate. They enjoyed their cushy spot as the first usable smart phones...

That was Palm, not RIM. With the hugely popular PalmGear app store. But Palm self-destructed as well.

 

[KnightWRX]

To close the gap, Microsoft surprised everyone with surprisingly nice Windows phones.

RIM essentially got squeezed out.

RIM commands about 8 times more marketshare than Microsoft Windows Mobile/Phone...

Squeezed out wha... ?

 

[0dev]

IMO, BlackBerries are still better than Androids, and I'm looking forward to seeing what QNX will bring next year. But they certainly did take too long to innovate. Like Nokia, they held onto their old system for too long instead of creating a more modern one to keep up with the game, and they may suffer for this.

 

[chrono1081]

RIM commands about 8 times more marketshare than Microsoft Windows Mobile/Phone...

Squeezed out wha... ?

Well our workplace just got rid of all blackberries recently, and we are far from the only ones.

RIM continues to disappoint (outages being a huge issue) as well as a plain bad phone OS. Ever try and develop a Blackberry app? Its not pretty.

 

[roadbloc]

Its weird, because all I see nowadays is Blackberrys. They vastly outnumber Android and defiantly iOS users at work, when I was offered a works phone it was a Blackberry and both my younger cousin and brother have them and claim all their friends have them for BBM.

How are RIM managing to loose so much money with so many devices sold? I'm sure it'll just be my 'anecdotal' area or something.

 

[chrono1081]

Its weird, because all I see nowadays is Blackberrys. They vastly outnumber Android and defiantly iOS users at work, when I was offered a works phone it was a Blackberry and both my younger cousin and brother have them and claim all their friends have them for BBM.

How are RIM managing to loose so much money with so many devices sold? I'm sure it'll just be my 'anecdotal' area or something.

I don't think its so much "devices sold" as it is "new devices purchased". The Playbook was a flop, and their new phones have been pushed back to the end of 2012.

The outages is what did it in for the company I work at. All blackberries are to be replaced by mid February. People I know in other companies that I have worked with are phasing out blackberries as well because iOS and Android do it better for in-house apps.

 

[KnightWRX]

Well our workplace just got rid of all blackberries recently, and we are far from the only ones.

RIM continues to disappoint (outages being a huge issue) as well as a plain bad phone OS. Ever try and develop a Blackberry app? Its not pretty.

But your initial premise was Windows Phone was squeezing RIM out. Which it isn't.

And my workplace is firmly a RIM shop and we are far from the only ones. See how my anecdote is different from yours ?

As it stands, RIM while on a decline is still showing strong market share numbers quarter after quarter and in terms of units pushed out, is showing growth (if not market share growth as the market is growing faster than RIM is).

 

[chrono1081]

But your initial premise was Windows Phone was squeezing RIM out. Which it isn't.

And my workplace is firmly a RIM shop and we are far from the only ones. See how my anecdote is different from yours ?

As it stands, RIM while on a decline is still showing strong market share numbers quarter after quarter and in terms of units pushed out, is showing growth (if not market share growth as the market is growing faster than RIM is).

No I said Windows helped squeeze out RIM, not that it was solo in squeezing out RIM. Its another alternative to a blackberry.

RIM is behind, very behind. There is no dispute to that. They slashed a lot of jobs last summer because they aren't doing as well as they hoped.

The playbook was a failure that they lost money on, they've had a few extreme service outages, and they have since delayed new phones until the end of 2012. You can't do that as a company and expect to stay ahead.

 

[*LTD*]

But your initial premise was Windows Phone was squeezing RIM out. Which it isn't.

And my workplace is firmly a RIM shop and we are far from the only ones. See how my anecdote is different from yours ?

As it stands, RIM while on a decline is still showing strong market share numbers quarter after quarter and in terms of units pushed out, is showing growth (if not market share growth as the market is growing faster than RIM is).

RIM is still profitable to a degree, but their value is in the gutter, and they have nothing in the pipeline. "Sometime in late 2012" (I thought it was just a sick joke, but they're serious) means they're royally screwed, and unless they can turn water into wine (no, these CEOs are clueless) they're done for. Both CEOs are in massive denial mode, and there is no Steve Jobs type figure out there to engineer a major comeback. Expect nothing impressive from Ballsilie and Lazaridis. RIM is 90% past the point of no return. And as their value continues to shrink, they'll become bigger buyout bait. There's a good chance they'll be acquired. What might be attractive is their customer base, IP, possibly infrastructure.

Either way, it'll likely be a sad end. And they'll have absolutely no one but themselves to blame.

 

[KnightWRX]

No I said Windows helped squeeze out RIM, not that it was solo in squeezing out RIM. Its another alternative to a blackberry.

How did it help with its paltry < 5% market share ?

That's 3 times now that I've pointed out the fallacy of your premise. Windows Phone didn't help squat. If anything, it pushed out Windows Mobile. You do realise Windows Phone 7 is not some new software product and that Microsoft isn't just joining the industry right ? Microsoft have been making PDAs and Phone OSes for the greater part of 10 years now.

It used to be RIM vs Windows vs Palm in the Smartphone arena. No frankly, your premise is completely flawed. iOS and Android are making the consumer market grow in the smartphone arena, whereas before it was almost exclusive to businesses. With this accelerated market growth, RIM just isn't following the market anymore.

Yet they are pushing out more and more units per quarter. People just think they are doing bad because their share % is diminishing, but percentages don't tell the whole story.

Open your eyes. RIM's problem is a marketing one. The playbook failed, the %s are diminishing, and it does seem like they are in trouble when in fact, the company isn't doing so bad for itself after going through a recession. However, those media stories about RIM's "problems" is lowering investor confidence.

 

[*LTD*]

Open your eyes. RIM's problem is a marketing one. The playbook failed, the %s are diminishing, and it does seem like they are in trouble when in fact, the company isn't doing so bad for itself after going through a recession. However, those media stories about RIM's "problems" is lowering investor confidence.

Marketing? How would you want to market devices that look and feel ancient to even the most basic capacitive touch smartphone that has access to Android Marketplace?

RIM's problem is a "we didn't do sweet f all for 4 years while the industry moved forward without us" problem.

 

[chrono1081]

How did it help with its paltry < 5% market share ?

That's 3 times now that I've pointed out the fallacy of your premise. Windows Phone didn't help squat. If anything, it pushed out Windows Mobile. You do realise Windows Phone 7 is not some new software product and that Microsoft isn't just joining the industry right ? Microsoft have been making PDAs and Phone OSes for the greater part of 10 years now.

It used to be RIM vs Windows vs Palm in the Smartphone arena. No frankly, your premise is completely flawed. iOS and Android are making the consumer market grow in the smartphone arena, whereas before it was almost exclusive to businesses. With this accelerated market growth, RIM just isn't following the market anymore.

Yet they are pushing out more and more units per quarter. People just think they are doing bad because their share % is diminishing, but percentages don't tell the whole story.

Open your eyes. RIM's problem is a marketing one. The playbook failed, the %s are diminishing, and it does seem like they are in trouble when in fact, the company isn't doing so bad for itself after going through a recession. However, those media stories about RIM's "problems" is lowering investor confidence.

Ok as always you are right and everyone else is wrong Silly me I'll go back to setting up in house apps on the 5600 Blackberries we have at work...oh wait...they're gone.

 

[0000757]

The Blackberry Bold 9900/30 is a very beautiful phone. It really is. It's a really good phone to use as well.

The problem isn't the company, or the phones. It's the apps. Everyone wants Apps now. The Apps in the BlackBerry App World are crappy, extremely expensive, and there's only about what? 50? That's the issue. RIM has made some extremely amazing and intelligent devices. They simply have no App support. Enough said.

 

[KnightWRX]

Ok as always you are right and everyone else is wrong Silly me I'll go back to setting up in house apps on the 5600 Blackberries we have at work...oh wait...they're gone.

Look, I can dig out all the market share/unit volume graphs around showing you that Windows Phone does nothing. I can trace back the history of Windows Mobile from its Windows CE origins, what more do you want ?

Can't you at least admit that your premise was wrong ? Android and iOS are what are causing RIM's market share to decline, not Windows Phone 7.

It's not about being right or wrong, I think you're the only one to state that Windows Phone 7 is squeezing out RIM and frankly, that's pure fantasy.

 

[chrono1081]

Look, I can dig out all the market share/unit volume graphs around showing you that Windows Phone does nothing. I can trace back the history of Windows Mobile from its Windows CE origins, what more do you want ?

Can't you at least admit that your premise was wrong ? Android and iOS are what are causing RIM's market share to decline, not Windows Phone 7.

It's not about being right or wrong, I think you're the only one to state that Windows Phone 7 is squeezing out RIM and frankly, that's pure fantasy.

I never said Windows Phone was the only one squeezing out RIM, ever. I know it has a tiny market share but it is still another option for people to use and frankly, works a lot better than a Blackberry.

Its no secret iOS and Android are the main OS's bringing Blackberry down but Windows phones are gaining more attention. They're not doing so hot right now but I bet they will in the future.