RX580 & 4,1 -> 5,1 fan behaviour?

[mattspace]

so with the 580 being the flavour of the moment, is anyone with one still experiencing the pci fan full throttle on boot thing, of is that gone now?

Very tempted to drop the cash on a 580, but the pulse 8gb just went up by about AU$50 while I had one sitting in my newegg cart, which is annoying.

That’s taking it into the territory of the Nitro+ here (8gb pulse is unavailable in .au), which I’d get a local warranty on. What are people’s thoughts on the Nitro+ as an alternative? How safe would you bet on it being as turnkey a Mojave card, compared to the Pulse?

Cheers.

 

[h9826790]

so with the 580 being the flavour of the moment, is anyone with one still experiencing the pci fan full throttle on boot thing, of is that gone now?

Very tempted to drop the cash on a 580, but the pulse 8gb just went up by about AU$50 while I had one sitting in my newegg cart, which is annoying.

That’s taking it into the territory of the Nitro+ here (8gb pulse is unavailable in .au), which I’d get a local warranty on. What are people’s thoughts on the Nitro+ as an alternative? How safe would you bet on it being as turnkey a Mojave card, compared to the Pulse?

Cheers.

The Nitro+ is fine. If you worry about the power draw. For this particular card, you can just connect the 8pin but not the 6pin (double check your manual). And everything should stay within the official limit.

However, the card is a 2.2 slot card (PULSE is 2.0 slot wide), so, will physically block slot 2 as well.

If you need the 2nd PCIe 2.0 x16 slot. Or need all 4 slots, then you should not go for the Nitro+.

 

[tsialex]

I would be very interested in knowing the outcome of this experiment.

More people testing the better/faster to get the answer, PM me your dump and I'll reconstruct 138.0.0.0.0 with Base_21 and your Mac Pro identifiers.

 

[VanneDC]

i just went with the
ROG Strix Radeon RX 580 OC edition 8GB.
the slot (2.3 slots wide)width isn't an issue for me, so i went for the quietest one. Single 8pin power, which ill use the 2 6pin ports into 1 8 pin. will miss my boot screens though... :/ bought mine from Oz, courier to my place was pretty expensive though. Hope there is a apple rom for these cards soon.

 

[h9826790]

Yes. Tried the usual stress tests.
I have a 680 GTX and have to do it to get the fans to behave on my other system when cold booting.

Nothing I do drops the fans on my newly upgraded MacOS system.

Everything was great with 10.12 and seemed to behave.

I only went to 10.13 tonight to update firmware to 89 before moving ahead with Mojave.
Installed 10.13.6 with my 4870, then put my 580 back.

Only problems problem problems since then.
I haven’t used MacsFanControl but tried iStat menus. Even if I set the fan to 800rpm, it doesn’t drop below 1250-1300rpm.

MUST be MacsFanControl but NOT any other fan control software. (TG Pro also OK if you set it correctly, but MacsFanControl always completely override the system settings and disable the protection. This allow us to go lower than the system commanding RPM)

iStat is completely useless for this purpose.

 

[h9826790]

I'd like to know it this behaviour is caused by the 1.39f5 SMC version or by the Base_XX blob in the NVRAM, what I call hardware descriptor. Apple continuously upgraded the Base_XX, from Base_17 in February 2009 to Base_21 in the end of 2011.

If you wanna troubleshot this at a lowest level possible, I can upgrade your Base_XX to the same one as the mid-2012 MP51 (Base_21). Just do a dump of your BootROM, compress it and send me by PM.

@h9826790 did you had this bug too? Resolved with Base_21?

Sure I can monitor it. I had this bug for many years.

I have to go to work soon. So, can't test it properly now. But will try to disable the fan control later and see if the updated Base_XX fix it.

However, since this bug is an intermittent bug. And can be temporarily fixed by SMC reset, or even just keep rebooting the cMP. The “firmware update” process itself may be good enough to temporarily fix it, and hide the fact.

Therefore, it will need may be weeks to confirm if that’s a real possible fix. Of course, if nothing fixed, we can know that straight away.

Anyway, for leon771, a quick work around is just stress the GPU a little bit (e.g. run Luxmark for few seconds), then the SMC will back to normal, the PSU / PCIe fan can go back to their real idle speed. You and make Luxmark auto run on every login, and then manually close it after a few seconds rendering.

Or, you can use MacsFanControl to setup a fan profile for PCIe and PSU fan. It can also fix the issue. I use my own fan control software to manage the PCIe and PSU fan automatically via modifying their target fan speed (base on PCIe ambient temperature and PSU component temperature). MacsFanControl can do the same thing.

The native PSU and PCIe fan profile base on both power draw and temperature. However, spin up very aggressively when PCIe power draw increase, but too gentle when temperature increases. For me, that’s a very strange fan profile. So, regardless if there is a bug, I will make my own fan profile for them anyway.

IMO, the fan should react to the actual temperature more. The native fan setting now may lead to something like

1) fan spin up a lot when just start to tax the GPU (when it is still quite cool), but spin down too soon when the GPU still hot (due to power draw decrease when the stress level goes down).

2) fan spin unnecessary fast in cold winter due to high power draw when under stress, even actual temperature isn't that high.

3) PSU high temperature due to high usage from components other than GPU (or PCIe cards)

Anyway, I will check if my PCIe and PSU fan back to normal later, and report back.

 

[cdf]

More people testing the better/faster to get the answer, PM me your dump and I'll reconstruct 138.0.0.0.0 with Base_21 and your Mac Pro identifiers.

Thanks. I know I speak for everyone here when I say that your hard work in demystifying the cMP firmware is absolutely amazing. I just checked my dump. I have Base_19. However, I'm a little reluctant to change anything because right now my fans at least can be calmed down by stressing my graphics card. I don't want to end up with fans that can't be calmed down. Is the process of going to Base_21 entirely reversible?

 

[tsialex]

Update: Yesterday, tsialex reconstructed my ROM with Base_21. Unfortunately, the fan bug remains. Therefore, the bug probably goes deeper than the hardware descriptor. (On the positive side, I now have a clean, expertly crafted ROM.)

While combing through my ROM, tsialex noticed that I have the same logic board as h98, who apparently is now free of the fan bug. In the past, people have speculated that the bug is power related. Maybe my graphics card draws more power through the logic board...

@h9826790, are you powering your card through a Pixlas bypass?

You and @h9826790 have the exact same logic board/BootROM combo now, maybe will be easier to find what is the reason for this weird fan behaviour from this point on.

 

[h9826790]

I'm having the same high fan speed on PSU and PCI. PRAM Reset doesn't fix the problem.
I have a 4,1>5,1 with Shappire Pulse Radeon RX570. I'm currently running macOS 10.13.6.

I you want to fix that by “reset”. You need SMC reset, but not PRAM reset.

In my own experience, the success rate is lower than 50%. You may need to try that a few times.

 

[setesousa]

I you want to fix that by “reset”. You need SMC reset, but not PRAM reset.

In my own experience, the success rate is lower than 50%. You may need to try that a few times.

As I read in the Apple website (and The cMP manual) the SMC resets just by unpluging the mac power cord for 15 seconds. That means that everytime you perform a hardware change (when you unplug the mac) the SMC resets.

I will try tomorrow and see if it works. By the way, I tried the luxmark test and it works, a few seconds after exiting the app, the fans behave normal.
Thank you guys for your knowledge

 

[cdf]

Happy new year folks. Just chiming in to confirm that the stress test solved the fan speed issue on my 4,1 > 5,1 (specs below)

2x2.66 Xeon
Rx580 (running through 2x6 pin while I wait for the correct adapter)
High Sierra fully updated, running off a Samsung Evo 850

Check out AirOut if you're interested in a clean, automated way of stressing your card to reset the system fans.

 

[mattspace]

However, the card is a 2.2 slot card (PULSE is 2.0 slot wide), so, will physically block slot 2 as well.

Yeah, I saw that, and decided I'll go for the Pulse - now the only problem, Moddiy isn't accepting orders - you don't happen to have another source on the 2x6 to 1x8 power cable, do you (or does it come with it?)

 

[skizzo]

Yeah, I saw that, and decided I'll go for the Pulse - now the only problem, Moddiy isn't accepting orders - you don't happen to have another source on the 2x6 to 1x8 power cable, do you (or does it come with it?)

I can say it deff does not come with any cables. It's just the card in the box and whatever warranty/paperwork included.
Do you have any mini 6pin to 6pin cables already?

 

[mattspace]

I can say it deff does not come with any cables. It's just the card in the box and whatever warranty/paperwork included.
Do you have any mini 6pin to 6pin cables already?

No I don't, and unfortunately the whole exercise is turning out to be a lot more expensive than I'd planned - $40 here for duty on the card and shipping fee, another $20 there for the cable, not having a local warranty on the card...

I'm starting to wonder if any other other brands of RX580 are going to suitable, like the Gigabyte Radeon RX 580 Gaming 8GB, and whether it's just better to wait until Mojave hits release to see what the landscape is like. Balancing that against whether the Pulse 8gb will still be in production, given how rare it seems to be.

 

[pat500000]

You can do a longer way: 2 mini 6 pin to 6 pin and then get dual 6 pin to single 8 pin.

 

[skizzo]

You can do a longer way: 2 mini 6 pin to 26 pin and then get dual 6 pin to single 8 pin.

yea that is what I did and was going to suggest if he had and mini 6pin to 6pin already.

That route will be little more because instead of a single $15 cable its now three cables (two mini 6pin to standard 6pin cables, and one Dual Female 6pin to Single 8pin) costing from $10 to $15 each so it will be double the cost.

 

[pat500000]

yea that is what I did and was going to suggest if he had and mini 6pin to 6pin already.

That route will be little more because instead of a single $15 cable its now three cables (two mini 6pin to standard 6pin cables, and one Dual Female 6pin to Single 8pin) costing from $10 to $15 each so it will be double the cost.

I don’t care about the cost though. I just care about the result. I couldn’t wait for shorter route as i needed my gpu up and running asap and not wait 2 weeks. Heh

 

[MarkC426]

No I don't, and unfortunately the whole exercise is turning out to be a lot more expensive than I'd planned - $40 here for duty on the card and shipping fee, another $20 there for the cable, not having a local warranty on the card...

I'm starting to wonder if any other other brands of RX580 are going to suitable, like the Gigabyte Radeon RX 580 Gaming 8GB, and whether it's just better to wait until Mojave hits release to see what the landscape is like. Balancing that against whether the Pulse 8gb will still be in production, given how rare it seems to be.

Personally I would stick with the Pulse as its an Apple recommended card, so should have greater longevity.
I got my cable from ebay (china) within a week.

 

[mattspace]

Well, I pulled the trigger on the Pulse 580 8gb.

Here in Australia, the sole distributor isn't offering it to the local market any more, so you literally can't buy it. They're focussing on the various Nitro series as their 8GB option, while still carrying the Pulse 4GB, and Sapphire won't sell to customers direct. You can buy through Amazon US, but they won't ship any physical product to Australia any more, leaving you with using a mail forwarding service. Newegg have them for the cheapest price, but a horrendous reputation for warranty support, which amounts to "we don't provide any service or support after 15 days for international purchases", and Sapphire don't have a world-wide warranty.

What to do?

Any fellow Australians looking for one of these, New Zealand has 3 independent distributors, and they all carry the card. If you deal with PB Technologies, they've got a special at the moment, and have an Australian operation as well - so you can call them on an Australian number, and they can patch the call over to NZ, saving you the international phone charge. They'll bill you in AU$, without charging you the NZ GST, just the AU version, and you can pay directly to an AU bank account, so you don't lose out on currency conversion fees.

All in all, a good purchasing experience so far.

 

[MarkC426]

I hope you used Paypal or something similar to pay (sounds like you did a bank transfer or something)?
Strange that amazon won’t ship to Australia, I can buy stuff from US store shipped to UK.

 

[mattspace]

I hope you used Paypal or something similar to pay (sounds like you did a bank transfer or something)?
Strange that amazon won’t ship to Australia, I can buy stuff from US store shipped to UK.

no, just a direct deposit, but since it's to a company with an Australian bricks & mortar presence that issues me an invoice etc, not an individual, i'm not worried about that.

Amazon won't ship physical stuff to Australia any more, because our idiot government, at the behest of an overly influential retail baron who was seeing his share price (in which most of his net worth was invested) slip, decided to levy our 10% goods & services tax on all products purchased overseas by Australians (where previously it had only applied to products over AU$1000), despite the fact it will cost more to administer, than it will raise. Rather than just requiring the postal / delivery services to handle it as a part of the freight charges (the tax applies to the freight cost as well), they demand the overseas retailers collect it, and forward it to the Australian government.

Amazon's response was "Fxck you".

So they shut down physical deliveries, and you can only get stuff from the local Amazon store, which is as insanely marked up as everything else here. For example, a hardcover photography book that's US$50 ($AU67) costs over AU$200 on the Australian Amazon store.

 

[MarkC426]

no, just a direct deposit, but since it's to a company with an Australian bricks & mortar presence that issues me an invoice etc, not an individual, i'm not worried about that.

Amazon won't ship physical stuff to Australia any more, because our idiot government, at the behest of an overly influential retail baron who was seeing his share price (in which most of his net worth was invested) slip, decided to levy our 10% goods & services tax on all products purchased overseas by Australians (where previously it had only applied to products over AU$1000), despite the fact it will cost more to administer, than it will raise. Rather than just requiring the postal / delivery services to handle it as a part of the freight charges (the tax applies to the freight cost as well), they demand the overseas retailers collect it, and forward it to the Australian government.

Amazon's response was "Fxck you".

So they shut down physical deliveries, and you can only get stuff from the local Amazon store, which is as insanely marked up as everything else here. For example, a hardcover photography book that's US$50 ($AU67) costs over AU$200 on the Australian Amazon store.

That stinks of Trumpism.
And I thought we where badly done in the UK with our VAT.......
That’s a hell of a markup.

 

[mattspace]

That stinks of Trumpism.
And I thought we where badly done in the UK with our VAT.......
That’s a hell of a markup.

We are similarly beset with right-wingers, who are equipped with, at best, a secondary-school education in the theology of economics, who prattle on about a nation's economy being "like a household budget", or that a country can be "run like a business", and who seem only interested in how much they can stripmine out of society for the benefit of their puppetmasters...

*cough*, sorry, wrong meeting.

 

[VanneDC]

lol!!

anyone else have any issues with non pulse rx580's? I am waiting for my dual mini 6pin to single 8pin cable to arrive before installing.

 

[leon771]

so with the 580 being the flavour of the moment, is anyone with one still experiencing the pci fan full throttle on boot thing, of is that gone now?

. Just upgraded my 4,1 flashed 5,1 this evening from 10.12.6 to 10.13.6

On 10.12.6 I had high expansion slot fans on boot then they would calm down after 1 min and settle at 800rpm.

Now on 10.13.6 the expansion slot fan is 1300rpm and won’t go lower.
Very frustrating. Not the behavior I was getting before the upgrade.