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strukt

macrumors regular
Original poster
Aug 8, 2012
123
127
Norway
Whats up with the SATA ports in the Apple PR material?

I have tried looking at the tech specs, but dont see any mention about SATA in the material on Apples website?

Anyone know anything about these ports?

2019-06-05 13_03_37-Mac Pro - Design - Apple.png
 

digidow

macrumors member
Feb 19, 2007
30
57
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eyeangle

macrumors regular
Jan 2, 2014
159
20
Melbourne, Australia
There are only 2 SATA ports and the Pegasus R4i can hold 4 hard drives. How will the other two hard drives be powered? Is there enough power coming out of the PCI-E to power all four?
[doublepost=1559734924][/doublepost]
Nice. Apart from the IKEA feet, I'm really liking this new Mac Pro. :)
I agree, the feet don't look there best- maybe there will be other feet made by 3rd parties.
 

ReanimationLP

macrumors 68030
Jan 8, 2005
2,782
33
On the moon.
There are only 2 SATA ports and the Pegasus R4i can hold 4 hard drives. How will the other two hard drives be powered? Is there enough power coming out of the PCI-E to power all four?
[doublepost=1559734924][/doublepost]
I agree, the feet don't look there best- maybe there will be other feet made by 3rd parties.

R4i is a RAID card included with it in the middle.

J2i is the two disk tray that mounts at the top and uses these SATA ports.
 

eyeangle

macrumors regular
Jan 2, 2014
159
20
Melbourne, Australia
R4i is a RAID card included with it in the middle.

J2i is the two disk tray that mounts at the top and uses these SATA ports.
Thanks for clearing that up. :)

I'm just curious, with a RAID card like this, is it possible to use it as a normal drive enclosure without RAID? ie: mount all four drives as seperate individual drives on the desktop?
 

keith57

macrumors newbie
May 9, 2008
27
23
North Wales
Thanks for clearing that up. :)

I'm just curious, with a RAID card like this, is it possible to use it as a normal drive enclosure without RAID? ie: mount all four drives as seperate individual drives on the desktop?

Yes, just 4 ordinary drives on the desktop would be great
 

killawat

macrumors 68000
Sep 11, 2014
1,961
3,609
Thanks for clearing that up. :)

I'm just curious, with a RAID card like this, is it possible to use it as a normal drive enclosure without RAID? ie: mount all four drives as seperate individual drives on the desktop?

At this point it's a toss up between either. Usually in order to get the performance benefits of hardware raid you lose all the ability to run single drives that pass through smart status and other information. A less than optimal work around is to create individual volumes through the controller consisting of an individual drive each, but in 2019 that's clunky and should be unnecessary.

We see this all the time in the home file server community where someone will grab an old $1000 raid controller for $50 on eBay and think they're good to go, but the hardware offers no way for the application (i.e. freenas, macOS) to see the drives individually. In this case, the dumber (not necessarily cheaper) cards work best because there's no raid controller taking control of the disks.

If someone is seriously interested in a simple 4 disk SATA backplane from Promise then email them and let them know.
 

ReanimationLP

macrumors 68030
Jan 8, 2005
2,782
33
On the moon.
Thanks for clearing that up. :)

I'm just curious, with a RAID card like this, is it possible to use it as a normal drive enclosure without RAID? ie: mount all four drives as seperate individual drives on the desktop?

Almost all RAID controllers support JBOD. You'd have to reformat them as it appears that their solution comes with all 4 drives pre-fitted in a RAID5.
 

bzollinger

macrumors 6502a
Aug 1, 2005
542
3
I too am interested in this subject. The internal storage limitations are a deal breaker/maker for me and the new cheese grater.
 

MatrixRabbit

macrumors newbie
Sep 30, 2018
27
8
In terms of power, there shouldn't be any issues. It seems interesting they're populating with 8TB drives, when my desktop has all 14TB HGST models which weren't all that expensive.

There is always the Pegasus3 R8, which is a great way to have 112TB of storage (84 if you use RAID 6).
 

rpmurray

macrumors 68020
Feb 21, 2017
2,148
4,329
Back End of Beyond
My desktop has all 14TB HGST models which weren't all that expensive.

Which desktop would that be? The cMP Mac Pros seem to have issues with HDDs not mounting after restart when using the larger HGST HDDs, but not when starting from a cold boot.

You can get a 12TB HGST HDD for half the price of the 14TB.
 

MatrixRabbit

macrumors newbie
Sep 30, 2018
27
8
I have a Falcon Northwest Mach V, paid about $8,000 for it. It is built like a tank, and has 6 pre-wired HDD slot bay's. For Mac storage, the Pegasus has always been extremely nice.

It's not a Mac, but my next choice will either be another Mach V, or this Mac Pro. I've not once had one issue with a hard drive and I've paid about $380 for each of my 14's. Western Digital always has 20% student discounts.
 

danwells

macrumors 6502a
Apr 4, 2015
783
617
The other nice option for storage on the new Mac Pro is that PCIe cards offerin a bunch of NVMe SSD (up to at least 4 per card) slots aren't terribly expensive, and they use surprisingly little power (one board with a RAID controller uses about 8W for the board itself, then 4-8W per drive).

There's really no reason to pay for expensive Apple SSDs beyond whatever needs to be on the boot drive - I'd be shocked if it'll boot off of something in a PCIe slot (if it will, there's no reason to upgrade from the 256 GB SSD - use it for whatever random purpose and boot off a PCIe drive). Especially in RAID, drives on a card will be just as fast. This is actually a real advantage of the Mac Pro over a similarly configured iMac Pro - you can do the same thing with Thunderbolt with a $299 4 slot case, but 4 NVMe drives are an awful lot for a Thunderbolt 3 connection to support, but no problem for even PCIe x8, let alone x16.

Why would spinning drives go inside the case? The Promise adapters certainly allow it, but I'm having trouble seeing the purpose. It takes a lot of hard drives to saturate a Thunderbolt 3 or 10 Gb Ethernet connection, and it's easy enough to throw the noisy drives in a case that can be tucked in a cabinet connected by Thunderbolt 3 or better yet in a closet over 10 Gb Ethernet? Those adapters won't be cheap - as limited production items, they'll probably be more expensive than a $300 4-bay Thunderbolt case, and they might well be as expensive as an entry-level 10 Gb NAS, which start around $600. If you're only looking for a drive or two, enterprise-class drives are available in USB 3.1 cases for only about $50 more than they cost as internals - there's no way the Promise adapter will be that cheap, is there?
 

deconstruct60

macrumors G5
Mar 10, 2009
12,493
4,053
In terms of power, there shouldn't be any issues. It seems interesting they're populating with 8TB drives, when my desktop has all 14TB HGST models which weren't all that expensive.

Is the RAID working set RAM backed up? How much RAM do they have for the working set mapping?

Also wondering if tapping into the MPX bay power supply or just the75W power of the standard slot. Spining up a larger number of platters probably has a bigger initial spike load.


It may be though that they won't sell it 'drive less" so making folks by four 8TB if they want to re-stuff with 14TB just puts a floor under the price point of the device. Good enough for many and folks who want to go big get 4 extra drives to perhaps use elsewhere.

There is always the Pegasus3 R8, which is a great way to have 112TB of storage (84 if you use RAID 6).

Plus that is probably easier to put a UPS power back up on than 1.4KW.
 

MatrixRabbit

macrumors newbie
Sep 30, 2018
27
8
Danwells- what's your product recommendation for someone that already has a bunch of 14TB drives? Running CAT6/TB3 to a closet is a non-option. I need a noise-less solution, which seems most logical to have it in the "noise-less" Mac Pro.
 

JesterJJZ

macrumors 68020
Jul 21, 2004
2,461
823
I’m pretty sure someone will make a simple diskless 4 drive jbod mpx module. Sonnet or OWC likely candidates.
Same with the 2 drive one.
 
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JaredB985

macrumors newbie
Jul 12, 2021
4
1
Ames, IA
The other nice option for storage on the new Mac Pro is that PCIe cards offerin a bunch of NVMe SSD (up to at least 4 per card) slots aren't terribly expensive, and they use surprisingly little power (one board with a RAID controller uses about 8W for the board itself, then 4-8W per drive).

There's really no reason to pay for expensive Apple SSDs beyond whatever needs to be on the boot drive - I'd be shocked if it'll boot off of something in a PCIe slot (if it will, there's no reason to upgrade from the 256 GB SSD - use it for whatever random purpose and boot off a PCIe drive). Especially in RAID, drives on a card will be just as fast. This is actually a real advantage of the Mac Pro over a similarly configured iMac Pro - you can do the same thing with Thunderbolt with a $299 4 slot case, but 4 NVMe drives are an awful lot for a Thunderbolt 3 connection to support, but no problem for even PCIe x8, let alone x16.

Why would spinning drives go inside the case? The Promise adapters certainly allow it, but I'm having trouble seeing the purpose. It takes a lot of hard drives to saturate a Thunderbolt 3 or 10 Gb Ethernet connection, and it's easy enough to throw the noisy drives in a case that can be tucked in a cabinet connected by Thunderbolt 3 or better yet in a closet over 10 Gb Ethernet? Those adapters won't be cheap - as limited production items, they'll probably be more expensive than a $300 4-bay Thunderbolt case, and they might well be as expensive as an entry-level 10 Gb NAS, which start around $600. If you're only looking for a drive or two, enterprise-class drives are available in USB 3.1 cases for only about $50 more than they cost as internals - there's no way the Promise adapter will be that cheap, is there?
I concur with this statement. I have successfully used a PCIe card to boot macOS Sonoma on a 2019 Mac Pro (7,1).

This is the setup I have:

2019 Mac Pro (7,1)
- 12-core processor
- 96GB RAM
- 256GB Apple SSD (paltry size but have a larger one on the way)
- AMD Radeon Pro W5700X 16GB
- OWC Accelsior 4M2 with 4 x 2TB WD Black M.2 NVMe SSDs
(This is the PCIe to NVMe card I bought - can be found here: https://eshop.macsales.com/item/OWC/SSDACL4M20GB/ )

I can confirm that I was able to utilize a WD Black NVMe as a startup/boot volume using the OWC Accelsior 4M2 - I went the route of the card that didn't include any storage because I wanted to choose my NVMe SSDs and could get them for a fraction of the cost of the variants that came with them preinstalled.

At first I tried just cloning my 256GB Apple SSD with macOS Sonoma to the 2TB WD Black NVMe SSD using Carbon Copy Cloner (https://bombich.com/ - a free 30-day trial can be used for this if you don't want to pay the license fee) on the OWC Accelsior 4M2 - it appeared to clone correctly but wouldn't boot from that drive.

So I instead created a bootable USB macOS Monterrey installer. Booted from that, setup the 2TB WD Black NVMe SSD as a APFS drive, installed using the USB (be present during installation and ready to hold the Alt/Option key at bootup and during restarts during the installation).

From there I went to Software Update (click the Apple 🍏 in the upper left-hand corner of your screen, then select System Settings, go to the General tab, then Software Update, install macOS Sonoma from here - it should show up as an available software update. Remember to be present and ready to hold the Alt/Option key during this macOS installation as well - otherwise it will default to opening up macOS from your Apple SSD.

After I successfully upgraded from macOS Monterrey to macOS Sonoma I went through the (simple) process of migrating my files and applications from the 256GB Apple SSD to the 2TB WD Black NVMe SSD. This was done using the built-in Migration Assistant (can be found in Utilities folder within Applications folder or alternatively go to Launchpad and it shows up in the Other folder there - why they label it differently is something I cannot answer but it would be a little confusing to a person unfamiliar with it).

The only thing I was NOT able to do was to install a Bootcamp volume on the 2TB WD Black NVMe SSD housed in the OWC Accelsior 4M2 PCIe card. This is because for whatever reason my 2019 Mac Pro recognizes/labels the drives in the OWC Accelsior 4M2 PCIe card as "external" storage - a frustrating experience - if anyone has a tip on how to overcome that, I'd love to hear it. :)
 
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Pummers

macrumors member
Jul 5, 2010
90
152
The only thing I was NOT able to do was to install a Bootcamp volume on the 2TB WD Black NVMe SSD housed in the OWC Accelsior 4M2 PCIe card. This is because for whatever reason my 2019 Mac Pro recognizes/labels the drives in the OWC Accelsior 4M2 PCIe card as "external" storage - a frustrating experience - if anyone has a tip on how to overcome that, I'd love to hear it. :)

I don't have a 7,1 but have you tried this workaround?
 
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