Self service and new Macbook Pro's

[D-a-a-n]

After 5 years (of running Windows and Linux) it's time to switch back to mac. I'm waiting for newer MBP's to come (M2).

The major thing holding me back (before I plunge €3000 on a laptop) is the upgradability/repairability, more specific: the possibility of expanding ram and/or replacing the ssd.

Since Apple announced "self service repair", do you guys think they would also make it available for the newer (unreleased) Macbook Pro's?

 

[appltech]

Yes. But it would be better for you to have a Mac without problems. Anyway, it will cost some real money

 

[theluggage]

The major thing holding me back (before I plunge €3000 on a laptop) is the upgradability/repairability, more specific: the possibility of expanding ram and/or replacing the ssd.

RAM is now built in to the system-on-a-chip package and isn’t ever going to be upgradeable/replaceable. This is actually true of any laptop or small-form-factor that uses low power (LPDDR) RAM which just isn’t available in plug-in modules and has to be surface-mount soldered to the motherboard.

I think that, of the Mac current models, only the Mac Studio and Mac Pro have non-soldered SSDs - and those are proprietary modules that need to be “registered” using a second Mac and an Apple software tool if they are changed. There is an official DIY SSD upgrade kit for the Mac Pro, but so far Apple are taking a “no user serviceable parts inside” line for the studio. The use of removable SSDs in the Studio is, I suspect, everything to do with Apple’s supply and distribution logistics and nothing to do with user upgradeability. MacBook Pro SSD is soldered and I’d be surprised if it changes.

From the recent teardowns it looks like general replaceability of batteries, fans etc. has got better, with a lot less glue, but the basics of CPU, GPU, RAM, SSD are only getting less replaceable.

There is a good excuse in the case of RAM, where having LPDDR in-package gives better performance - soldering in the SSD (something that *can* wear out) is less excusable. It’s up to you whether that is a dealbreaker.

 

[Fishrrman]

OP wrote:
"The major thing holding me back (before I plunge €3000 on a laptop) is the upgradability/repairability, more specific: the possibility of expanding ram and/or replacing the ssd."

There will NEVER be a Mac laptop with expandable RAM or a replaceable internal drive again.

All your buying decisions should be based on the sentence above.

 

[D-a-a-n]

RAM is now built in to the system-on-a-chip package and isn’t ever going to be upgradeable/replaceable. This is actually true of any laptop or small-form-factor that uses low power (LPDDR) RAM which just isn’t available in plug-in modules and has to be surface-mount soldered to the motherboard.

I think that, of the Mac current models, only the Mac Studio and Mac Pro have non-soldered SSDs - and those are proprietary modules that need to be “registered” using a second Mac and an Apple software tool if they are changed. There is an official DIY SSD upgrade kit for the Mac Pro, but so far Apple are taking a “no user serviceable parts inside” line for the studio. The use of removable SSDs in the Studio is, I suspect, everything to do with Apple’s supply and distribution logistics and nothing to do with user upgradeability. MacBook Pro SSD is soldered and I’d be surprised if it changes.

From the recent teardowns it looks like general replaceability of batteries, fans etc. has got better, with a lot less glue, but the basics of CPU, GPU, RAM, SSD are only getting less replaceable.

There is a good excuse in the case of RAM, where having LPDDR in-package gives better performance - soldering in the SSD (something that *can* wear out) is less excusable. It’s up to you whether that is a dealbreaker.

Yup, non replaceable ram I could live with, but it just sucks to have a fixed ssd. I mean, if something happens to it, there's no quick fix, only a new computer...

 

[D-a-a-n]

OP wrote:
"The major thing holding me back (before I plunge €3000 on a laptop) is the upgradability/repairability, more specific: the possibility of expanding ram and/or replacing the ssd."

There will NEVER be a Mac laptop with expandable RAM or a replaceable internal drive again.

All your buying decisions should be based on the sentence above.

Pfff ?
What's the point of right to repair, I don't get it...

 

[HDFan]

What's the point of right to repair, I don't get it...

You can repair components that are, er, repairable. The Apple Silicon performance is based, among other things, upon having the memory on the SOC. Physically impossible to upgrade the memory on the SOC. If you want to have user configurable memory options then you have to move from an SOC a to a separate cpu/memory chip architecture from another vendor and pay the price of lower performance.

As for SSD storage that is another issue, at least on the Studio models. We'll see what happens there over time.

The one unknown is what will happen with the new MacPro. We don't know how, or if, Apple will allow support for the 1.5 TB memory option on the Intel MacPro when Intel is replace by Apple Silicon.

 

[brosenz]

Yup, non replaceable ram I could live with, but it just sucks to have a fixed ssd. I mean, if something happens to it, there's no quick fix, only a new computer...

Get Apple Care, is not that expensive, is like $10/month, you can keep the warranty as long as you want.

 

[donawalt]

Right to repair isn't right to have Apple re-design their computers to make it simple for anyone to repair/replace/upgrade - to turn it into a Windows generic computer. What Apple is starting to provide is access to genuine Apple parts and tools for users wishing to repair the products they offer.

They design them this way for a reason, there are always tradeoffs of repairability vs. reliability for example. In my years I have seen more Windows computers hosed because a user tried to do something "simple" like replace RAM, add a board, swap a power supply, all things that are super easy on Windows PCs vs. a Mac. Apple made the conscious decision many years ago to avoid all these issues, which frequently resulted in transient problems that do nothing other than damage the reputation of the computer and its manufacturer to the user suffering from a now-unreliable computer.

@Fishrrman said it right - There will NEVER be a Mac laptop with expandable RAM or a replaceable internal drive again.

 

[chabig]

Yup, non replaceable ram I could live with, but it just sucks to have a fixed ssd. I mean, if something happens to it, there's no quick fix, only a new computer...

Replace "ssd" in that sentence with the name of any other component. Then explain why you think it's different.

 

[D-a-a-n]

Replace "ssd" in that sentence with the name of any other component. Then explain why you think it's different.

Because I could then get a replacement unit, pop in the old ssd and be up and running instantly. Also, damned if you spill liquids on your laptop and you forgot to do a backup that week...

 

[chabig]

What I was saying in a roundabout way is that if your CPU fails you have to get a new computer. If your RAM fails you have to get a new computer. If your power supply fails you have to get a new computer. If your SSD fails you have to get a new computer. There are a myriad of components in the machine. If any of them fail you have to get a new computer. The SSD is no different.

 

[Diablo360]

It’s unfortunate that Apple has gone in this direction but luckily These laptops are usually pretty reliable.

 

[MBAir2010]

D-a-a-n​

i agree with you and took such matters into my own.
see
Apple designs for the Sally, Garbiel, Vanisha, Gai, Shohei and other global
20 year-olds who wont open their back cover let alone try fixing anything but their indoor pets.
why should they risk that global domination for a DAAN, Bill, Barbara and Peiter?

i typed this on a Dell XPS 13" while my 2010 MBair is getting open sourced for Monterey now.

 

[JahBoolean]

D-a-a-n​

i agree with you and took such matters into my own.
see
Apple designs for the Sally, Garbiel, Vanisha, Gai, Shohei and other global
20 year-olds who wont open their back cover let alone try fixing anything but their indoor pets.
why should they risk that global domination for a DAAN, Bill, Barbara and Peiter?

i typed this on a Dell XPS 13" while my 2010 MBair is getting open sourced for Monterey now.

What the hell are you on about ?

 

[MBAir2010]

What the hell are you on about ?

apple makes everything for 20 year olds.
i could be wrong about that new studio something pro,
but everything is design to be exchanged when broken.

did I miss soemthing?

 

[JahBoolean]

apple makes everything for 20 year olds.
i could be wrong about that new studio something pro,
but everything is design to be exchanged when broken.

did I miss soemthing?

Not quite sure that the willingness to repair something correlates more strongly with the age of the consumer than the complexity and level of expertise needed for said repair.

But yeah self-service repair is mostly meant for iPhone screen repairs and battery replacement, not open heart surgery on the SoC

TL;DR: Ok, boomer.

 

[MBAir2010]

But yeah self-service repair is mostly meant for iPhone screen repairs and battery replacement, not open heart surgery on the SoC

my 2 cents was apple says one thing then does the other, or wont consider a pledge or PR release.
we were discussing this on a recycling topic this week.