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Selling Os On Third-Party Sites

M

MacUserDog

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Jan 24, 2024
8
3
Hello,

Since MacOs software has been protected under the GPL license for many years now. This means that you are allowed to sell, give away copies, etc. I just wanted to get some feedback on people to see what you think. I know it's kind of gray area because some might state it's copyright infringement. However, if you are going to sell it wouldn't it be for identification purposes? I have contacted Apple Inc. serval times and never got a reply.

Now, my question is:

Can you sell their operating systems on third-party websites like eBay, Amazon, Etsy, etc?
 
With the possible exception of a handful of components, MacOS is not covered under the GPL. Apple's SLAs are available here.

You can resell "retail" copies of the OS, which were provided on CD/DVD until ~2011. Newer releases were only available as downloads, and for the past several releases have been available for free.

What are you actually trying to do?
 
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Ok, let me clarify. Are you allowed to download the OS for free. Then put them on USB and sell them on third-party websites.

For instance, put High Sierra, Mojave, Catalina, Big Sur, etc. on a USB drive and make it a bootable installer?
 
Hmm... the SLA, section 4 (parts removed for clarity):

if you obtained your license to the Apple Software from the Mac App Store, you may make a one-time permanent transfer of all of your license rights to the Apple Software to another party, provided that: (ii) the transfer must include all of the Apple Software, including all its component parts and this License; (iii) you do not retain any copies of the Apple Software, full or partial, including copies stored on a computer or other storage device
Click to expand...

I don't claim to fully understand the legalese here, but it appears that you can sell a downloaded copy to someone else on the condition that you delete your copy afterwards. It would follow that you need to download a fresh copy for each USB drive you sell.

I'd like to get a second opinion here though :)
 
MacUserDog said:
Ok, let me clarify. Are you allowed to download the OS for free. Then put them on USB and sell them on third-party websites.

For instance, put High Sierra, Mojave, Catalina, Big Sur, etc. on a USB drive and make it a bootable installer?
Click to expand...

I've heard that there are people that do this already but I wouldn't trust buying one of these.

I will make one for a neighbor, friend or relative though if they provide the flash drive.
 
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Anyone who buys homemade Mac OS bootable install media from a third party is either desperate or ignorant of how easy it is to create one. Anyone selling homemade macOS bootable install media is a grifter taking advantage of a desperate or ignorant buyer. So many blog posts and YouTube video with instructions on how to create bootable install media.
 
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Nermal said:
Hmm... the SLA, section 4 (parts removed for clarity):



I don't claim to fully understand the legalese here, but it appears that you can sell a downloaded copy to someone else on the condition that you delete your copy afterwards. It would follow that you need to download a fresh copy for each USB drive you sell.

I'd like to get a second opinion here though :)
Click to expand...
I did find this at https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-3.0.en.html

This part is interesting:

For example, if you distribute copies of such a program, whether gratis or for a fee, you must pass on to the recipients the same freedoms that you received. You must make sure that they, too, receive or can get the source code. And you must show them these terms so they know their rights

Your thoughts?
 
Bigwaff said:
Anyone who buys homemade Mac OS bootable install media from a third party is either desperate or ignorant of how easy it is to create one. Anyone selling homemade macOS bootable install media is a grifter taking advantage of a desperate or ignorant buyer. So many blog posts and YouTube video with instructions on how to create bootable install media.
Click to expand...
Allow me to retort, Just because YOU may know many ways to get it done, you CANNOT expect other people to be successful they way you did it. Some people are noobs, sometimes things dont go as you planned and run into issues. I myself, about 14 months ago had problems making a usb installer for el capitan and high sierra right after ventura came out, i hit every forum i could find and nothing was working, every command i threw at terminal came to a screeching halt!!! So after a few days i went on ebay found a guy and purchased el cap, and high sierra, and both of them worked. So dont S#%* on people who arent technologically advanced. let people do what they have to do even if its a usb installer, it wont hurt your pockets and it helps those of us in need.
 
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MacUserDog said:
Hello,

Since MacOs software has been protected under the GPL license for many years now. This means that you are allowed to sell, give away copies, etc. I just wanted to get some feedback on people to see what you think. I know it's kind of gray area because some might state it's copyright infringement. However, if you are going to sell it wouldn't it be for identification purposes? I have contacted Apple Inc. serval times and never got a reply.

Now, my question is:

Can you sell their operating systems on third-party websites like eBay, Amazon, Etsy, etc?
Click to expand...
Yes they do sell macos usb installers,(is it legal?🤷‍♂️) if you go on ebay youll find them
 
Last edited:
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MrScratchHook said:
Allow me to retort, Just because YOU may know many ways to get it done, you CANNOT expect other people to be successful they way you did it. Some people are noobs, sometimes things dont go as you planned and run into issues. I myself, about 14 months ago had problems making a usb installer for el capitan and high sierra right after ventura came out, i hit every forum i could find and nothing was working, every command i threw at terminal came to a screeching halt!!! So after a few days i went on ebay found a guy and purchased el cap, and high sierra, and both of them worked. So dont S#%* on people who arent technologically advanced. let people do what they have to do even if its a usb installer, it wont hurt your pockets and it helps those of us in need.
Click to expand...
I agree not sure why that person had to get all worked up. I'm no newbie LOL. I didn't ask how to do it. Perhaps they didn't understand the question.
 
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MacUserDog said:
I did find this at https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-3.0.en.html

This part is interesting:

For example, if you distribute copies of such a program, whether gratis or for a fee, you must pass on to the recipients the same freedoms that you received. You must make sure that they, too, receive or can get the source code. And you must show them these terms so they know their rights

Your thoughts?
Click to expand...
Very little (if any) of the OS is covered by the GPL, so that paragraph is irrelevant when referring to the OS as a whole.
 
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MacUserDog said:
I did find this at https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-3.0.en.html

This part is interesting:

For example, if you distribute copies of such a program, whether gratis or for a fee, you must pass on to the recipients the same freedoms that you received. You must make sure that they, too, receive or can get the source code. And you must show them these terms so they know their rights
Click to expand...
This is only relevant to the open source components inside macOS, in particular the XNU kernel. It does not include any of the GUI. It has no relevance to selling (or transferring ownership) of macOS as a whole.

The Apple license agreements are here https://www.apple.com/legal/sla/

The one for macOS Sonoma refers to the open source components in section 2.M of https://www.apple.com/legal/sla/docs/macOSSonoma.pdf

Basically you can only transfer macOS to another person if you have transferred ownership of the Mac on which it resides. You certainly can't (without breaking the license agreement) sell macOS!!

And, of course, you don't own of the software. The license allows you to run macOS on your Apple hardware where "your" maybe a person or an organisation.

The above applies to Mac OSX Lion and newer. The rules may be different for High Sierra and older where macOS updates were not "free" and were sold on DVD.
 
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gilby101 said:
This is only relevant to the open source components inside macOS, in particular the XNU kernel. It does not include any of the GUI. It has no relevance to selling (or transferring ownership) of macOS as a whole.

The Apple license agreements are here https://www.apple.com/legal/sla/

The one for macOS Sonoma refers to the open source components in section 2.M of https://www.apple.com/legal/sla/docs/macOSSonoma.pdf

Basically you can only transfer macOS to another person if you have transferred ownership of the Mac on which it resides. You certainly can't (without breaking the license agreement) sell macOS!!

And, of course, you don't own of the software. The license allows you to run macOS on your Apple hardware where "your" maybe a person or an organisation.

The above applies to Mac OSX Lion and newer. The rules may be different for High Sierra and older where macOS updates were not "free" and were sold on DVD.
Click to expand...
Ok thanks for the information. I was unclear about the legal stuff and just assumed the OS was GPL.

What is funny is if you go to eBay and type in "MacOS USB installer" you will see hundreds of people violating the SLA from Apple Inc.
 
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MacUserDog said:
What is funny is if you go to eBay and type in "MacOS USB installer" you will see hundreds of people violating the SLA from Apple Inc.
Click to expand...
And Apple chooses not to chase after them, just as it doesn't chase after most Hackintosh owners.

I think you would find that the reputable ones justify the price as the cost of producing the USB and are making them available to those who need to install an old version of macOS on their Mac and can only do that from a USB. Apple used to charge a similar price to supply "free" OS X on DVD - but was still only for use on a Mac. That makes it a grey area.
 
MacUserDog said:
Hello,

Since MacOs software has been protected under the GPL license for many years now. This means that you are allowed to sell, give away copies, etc. I just wanted to get some feedback on people to see what you think. I know it's kind of gray area because some might state it's copyright infringement. However, if you are going to sell it wouldn't it be for identification purposes? I have contacted Apple Inc. serval times and never got a reply.

Now, my question is:

Can you sell their operating systems on third-party websites like eBay, Amazon, Etsy, etc?
Click to expand...

macOS is not GPL and your opening statement is entirely false/misunderstood.

There are some GPL (v2) components that you are totally free to download from their original sources or even petition apple for access to the source of said components, but macOS as a whole is NOT GPL, and is does not carry components licensed via the viral GPLv3 license required to incur that.

This is actually why some command line tools in macOS are very old or getting replaced (e.g., bash replaced with zsh) - due to the viral nature of GPLv3; Apple will not include newer licensed GPLv3 components.

Apple have deliberately not included GPLv3 software (only GPLv2 and abandoning that) to ensure macOS is compliant with the license without macOS itself being subject to GPL.
 
MacUserDog said:
Ok, let me clarify. Are you allowed to download the OS for free. Then put them on USB and sell them on third-party websites.

For instance, put High Sierra, Mojave, Catalina, Big Sur, etc. on a USB drive and make it a bootable installer?
Click to expand...
No.
You can't even sell mugs with Apple's trademarks.
Guidelines for Using Apple Trademarks and Copyrights https://www.apple.com/legal/intellectual-property/guidelinesfor3rdparties.html
macOS® operating system software https://www.apple.com/legal/intellectual-property/trademark/appletmlist.html
Legal - Intellectual Property - Apple https://www.apple.com/legal/intellectual-property/
 
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MacUserDog said:
Ok, let me clarify. Are you allowed to download the OS for free. Then put them on USB and sell them on third-party websites.

For instance, put High Sierra, Mojave, Catalina, Big Sur, etc. on a USB drive and make it a bootable installer?
Click to expand...
The answer is the same as if you’d be putting it on some FTP or website to download for free. Apple has copyright on the OS, so you’re not allowed to distribute copies without their permission. (But IANAL.)
 
klasma said:
The answer is the same as if you’d be putting it on some FTP or website to download for free. Apple has copyright on the OS, so you’re not allowed to distribute copies without their permission. (But IANAL.)
Click to expand...

All of the sites that provide macOS versions only provide links to Apple's servers so those are fine. I've seen places where you can download modified kits or VMs with the OS installed. I wouldn't touch those with a ten-foot pole.
 
pshufd said:
All of the sites that provide macOS versions only provide links to Apple's servers so those are fine.
Click to expand...
Yes, because linking doesn’t mean distributing. I can link to a copyrighted picture or text without violating its copyright (thankfully). I specifically meant distributing.
 
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Bigwaff complains:
"Anyone who buys homemade Mac OS bootable install media from a third party is either desperate or ignorant of how easy it is to create one. Anyone selling homemade macOS bootable install media is a grifter taking advantage of a desperate or ignorant buyer."

Some folks just don't seem to have the chops to "build their own" bootable flashdrive. I've seen posters like that here.

And there are PC users who have troubles as well. I realize there's a PC app named "Transmac" that supposedly can be used to create bootable Mac flash drives on a PC, but from my reading here over the years, it can be highly problematic to get it working right.

MOST folks can create bootable flashdrives.
A few can't.

For that reason, when trying to help a user that is flopping around like a fish out of water trying to boot a problem Mac, now and then I've suggested that they go on ebay and buy a bootable flashdrive "ready-built". Assuming the build was done correctly, that can solve their problems.

It's also worth mentioning a new utility out there called "Mist", that can now download an OS installer AND create a flashdrive in a single, integrated process. I haven't tried it, but it looks to be pretty slick...
 
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Fishrrman said:
It's also worth mentioning a new utility out there called "Mist", that can now download an OS installer AND create a flashdrive in a single, integrated process. I haven't tried it, but it looks to be pretty slick...
Click to expand...
I have used Mist a few times, also created Bootsticks with it. I had no problems and will use it again.
 
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