MP 6,1 Should I buy a Mac Pro 2013?

[TECK]

I currently use a Mac Pro 5,1 running on OpenCore Big Sur and Windows 10. I'm self employed and I need to be able to boot to Windows every day, for my work related responsibilities. Not interested to use Latebloom or other temp patches, I need a reliable system.

Right now I use 2 nVME 500GB disks, one for Big Sur and one for Windows. I presume 6,1 accommodates only one nVME disk so I will have to purchase 1TB disk, if needed, and partition it into 2 drives.

Do you have any recommendations related purchasing a 2013 Mac? I don't know what to do, I don't want to spend the money on a 7,1 or iMac, I need a compact form factor. Eventually the new Mx chips will support windows once the ARM version gets out of beta. I'm not sure what direction to take.

 

[mikas]

I've got a 6-core D300. I am happier with my pimped up 5,1 though. This trashcan thing is not as reliable as the 5,1 has been. I do not know what is the problem. I would kill to know it.

I would not pay anything above 1000 € for any configurations of these machines, 6, 8 or 12 core or whatever graphics there are (almost) soldered in. You are and will be suspect to a failure, sooner or later with these.

And still, I've been looking for another one. But not at 1k+ price.

edit. But I'll change the battery and hope for better reliability. You'd never know, honestly.

 

[TECK]

I'm looking on eBay for a decent 6,1 12core. Honestly, I hate that there are Big Sur issues on my 5,1 Mac, I had it for 10 years without any single issues and is upgraded to the specs you see in my signature.

 

[ironmanny1]

I usually am on windows for my 5,1 because macOS doesn‘t appeared to have the RTD functionality I need for my trading platform and excel. My trading platform appears to also run better on windows than macOS. The 5,1 also uses more electricity than the 6,1. I probably save about 130 to 150w of power when using my 6,1.

I’ve upgraded my 6,1 from 6 cores to 12 cores. It wasn’t so bad, I just had to take my time. I now run big Sur for the 6,1. I don’t need to hassle with all the update issues. I‘m not sure if the 6,1 has the same issues as the 5,1 with efi windows and the cert. Does anyone know? I use parallels to get what I need done in windows. My Trading platform runs better on the 6,1 than my 5,1 in macOS.

If you need hardware acceleration in macOS for the 6,1, you would need and egpu. As any of the d300, d500, or d700 does not support this. The D500 and D700 have been known to overheat and cost a lot to get it replaced. I run macfancontrol to ramp up the fan to keep the system cool. Another disadvantage Is having to modify the system to get the egpu running.

The 6,1 is still expensive. Depending on what you need to do, if you can get it for a really good price, maybe worth it. But it is still outdated hardware.

Also, the max speed for the internal drive of the 6,1 is 1500mb. I dislike having both windows and macOS on the same drive. Having macos on a separate external drive like usb3 or thunderbolt2 maybe another option. Hope this helps in making your decision.

 

[rpmurray]

I'd buy a dedicated Win 10 machine as a stopgap, they're relatively cheap. Then wait to see what Apple pulls out of it's ass hat as a viable replacement for the Mac Pro 5,1 with a M(something) CPU. Supposedly they're working on some cut down version of the 2019 Mac Pro that may be released in our lifetime.

 

[socamx]

I'm in a similar position as you, and about a year ago I started searching ebay and other usual places for used/refurbished 6,1s.

Ultimately I decided against it. I feel like the trashcan 6,1 is just a very, very poor value. Especially at prices people are demanding for such an old, barely upgradable machine.

My biggest issue is the GPU would be a straight downgrade, no matter how I looked at it. There's no upgrades for it unless you want to do kludgey Thunderbolt 2 external GPUs. The lack of internal support for 3.5" drives meant I'd also have to purchase an additional 4 bay device to slip my drives into.

If they were more reasonable prices, as in half to three quarters less than what they're going for, then maybe it would make sense. But as it sits right now they are just extremely bad value. Then when you factor in all the other issues you read here and elsewhere, is it really worth it?

I've kludged my Mac Pro 4,1->5,1 to 11.5.1 with Latebloom but I have the benefit of having month+ uptimes, so reboot issues don't bother me as long as I can finally boot.

Eventually the new Mx chips will support windows once the ARM version gets out of beta. I'm not sure what direction to take.

I think you're better off waiting for this to come to fruition. Like you, I'm limping along my 2009 until there's a higher end M-series Mini available. Unfortunately that means an external HDD bay for me, but I can live with that, if a bit begrudgingly.

 

[TECK]

Based on @tsialex's experience, there are no real improvement with a 6,1. From what you all say, I should stick with my 5,1 until a Mx MaC Pro comes out, which was my original plan. I installed Latebloom yesterday and the boot issues are gone. Hopefully, I should be able to continue using my 5,1 until a more affordable Mac Pro is released.

 

[MarkC426]

I would steer clear of a 6.1 from ebay.

Considering they are pretty much non-upgradeable, if you have an issue (with a used machine), your up the creek.
At least with Apple refurb store you can get 3 years of cover, but pay the extra cost for the mac.

 

[tsialex]

Based on @tsialex's experience, there are no real improvement with a 6,1. From what you all say, I should stick with my 5,1 until a Mx MaC Pro comes out, which was my original plan. I installed Latebloom yesterday and the boot issues are gone. Hopefully, I should be able to continue using my 5,1 until a more affordable Mac Pro is released.

I don't personally own one, but I support some. Late-2013 Mac Pros excel with CPU tasks, the IvyBridge generation Xeons are a lot faster, first generation AVX is supported, but then you have all the project limitations that we don't have with MacPro5,1. You will need a TB chassis to upgrade anything. The 12+16 blade connector don't work with most 12+16 to NVMe adapters, most people have to thinker with it to get it right.

I like late-2013 MacPros, it's an iconic design and it's very useful for someone that compile a lot or use lot's of VMs, but for someone that need current GPUs or local storage, it's not the Mac to have.

Even knowing all the pros/cons, if I can get one with a good history and at the right price…

 

[socamx]

I like late-2013 MacPros, it's an iconic design

I'm a sucker for compact Macs, between the TAM and the G4 Cube I have, I really do want to get my hands on a nice 6,1 eventually. If there had just been GPU upgrades for them I'd be singing a different tune about using it as my main machine.

 

[ironmanny1]

I don't personally own one, but I support some. Late-2013 Mac Pros excel with CPU tasks, the IvyBridge generation Xeons are a lot faster, first generation AVX is supported, but then you have all the project limitations that we don't have with MacPro5,1. You will need a TB chassis to upgrade anything. The 12+16 blade connector don't work with most 12+16 to NVMe adapters, most people have to thinker with it to get it right.

I like late-2013 MacPros, it's an iconic design and it's very useful for someone that compile a lot or use lot's of VMs, but for someone that need current GPUs or local storage, it's not the Mac to have.

Even knowing all the pros/cons, if I can get one with a good history and at the right price

@tsialex ... your words are always filled with logic and objectivity. Definitely right about the CPU Task. I can see / feel the difference with the work I am doing compared to the 5,1. I run one VM and the AVX is a plus in case software for virtualization doesn't run without it. i.e. vmware.

 

[flygbuss]

I know both machines well and own a 6,1.
The real and probably only advantage of the 6,1 is the cpu.

I work with audio and while real-time tasks are quite similar when it comes to CPU usage, CPU based rendering is a lot faster on a 6,1.

I also don’t have any issues with stability.
Thunderbolt 2 is the bottleneck when it comes to connectivity and the chassis for expansion are expensive.

Again, I work with audio, so all the D500 has to do is drive a couple of non retina displays.

Oh and I like the form factor.
I do score tracking with a lot of tracks outside the studio from time to time and the 6,1 is quiet enough and fits easily in a backpack (original box for protection included).

Many people said and do say the 6,1 is not a pro machine but I do not really agree.
It might not be one out of the box and it depends on the task, but a lot of studios I know still use the 6,1 and the 5,1 for professional audio production.

I also have a m1 mini. This is the first mini I was interested in because it doesn’t have thermal issues affecting cpu performance.
While I have to say that native applications do run faster compared to the 5,1 and 6,1, all of the stuff that still needs Rosetta translation is still faster on my 6,1 with 10C Xeon.
Also, two thunderbolt ports is really not much, so even less connectivity then a 6,1 even tho TB3 is much faster.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that it might be worth having both machines if you manage to get a good deal.
With 10GbE network adapters the 6,1 and the 5,1 can work quite well with each other.

 

[KeesMacPro]

The main thing that keeps me off a MP6,1 is the (physical) construction itself .
It's not only the thermal design with its flaws, but simply the practical aspect when it comes to maintenance and/or (limited) upgrades e.g. the CPU
After all , buying one means you'll have a machine of ~3-8 years old, so de-dusting it is a standard first step IMO.

Looking at the procedure of something basic and necessary as replacing the battery , I'd say that a complete overhaul and CPU/GPU repaste of e.g a MacBook Pro is a walk in the park compared to this.

If I'm not mistaken, there were quite a few reports of failed CPU upgrades posted here too, so buying a low spec MP6,1 and upgrading the CPU isn't easy and without risks, and for a maxed out MP6,1 you still pay a considerable price.

Quite a contrast compared to the flexible design of the MP4,1/5,1 : an invitation to adapt, tweak and tinker with the hardware installed according to the purpose it should serve.

 

[mikas]

And as it happened today, I found a decent Mac Pro 2013 just under 1k€, and I made a deal. I just could not resist it. Was it a sane decision? Not at all.

In a year or two it will become vintage and obsolete and whatever other ancient words there are to describe it. After that it will not be good for my daily work anymore, but will probably stay in my retro collection forever. It is beautiful. And like we all know, it's good to have a back up computer(s) of the same kind.

 

[Seiko4169]

If you set your expectations accordingly and can get one at a price that feels right to you get one. I picked mine up in 2019, new, at a great price. I love it’s form factor, silent running and sleek looks. Added a egpu to drive an ultra wide and it’s a great set up for my personal needs.

I was/am tempted to pair it with the XDR display but I’m wary Apple might release a new larger iMac that delivers an impressive upgrade even compared with the XDR.

 

[MisterAndrew]

I've been happy with mine. My only complaint is that every now and then the D700 model will freeze/delay for a half second or second with the spinning beach ball. The fan ramps up a little just after that like it had a little brain freeze. It hasn't become a problem. Just a very slight annoyance. The D500 model doesn't do that. Both were purchased new last year.

The 8-core D700 model is great with Adobe Lightroom Classic. That's mostly what I use it for. It handles 61 MP RAW files pretty well. The 6-core D500 model struggles a little with them. I think the 12-core with D700s would do even better.

Edit: The D700 unit hasn't been having "brain freezes" after I replaced the Samsung 970 EVO Plus SSD with a SK hynix P31 Gold SSD. Maybe that was the issue. The D500 unit still has the Apple SSD in it.

 

[MarkC426]

Not wanting to buy, but has anyone bought from 'Amazon renewed'?

There are some 12 core 64gb 512 ssd 6.1mp on UK store.
The actual refurbishing company is Mac Store UK, which seems to be a reputable mac reseller.

Comes with 1 year warranty £1323, seems reasonable price.

 

[socamx]

Not wanting to buy, but has anyone bought from 'Amazon renewed'?

It’s hit and miss like anything you get on eBay and third party stores. My first cMP came off an Amazon seller and it was very well packaged and all that jazz.

As for the price though, I still lean on them being very poor overall value considering their age and asking prices. It’s a healthy chunk of change for something so close to the chopping block.

 

[th0masp]

IMO it's years too late to pick one of these up. I really wouldn't choose one without warranty if its for business purposes.

Perhaps a 2018 Mini can do the job, CPU-wise it should be a bit faster at least.

 

[MisterAndrew]

It’s funny that most of the people complaining about the 6,1 being too old are using an even older Mac Pro. Apple is still selling the 6,1 refurbished in the UK. It’s still the best desktop Mac at its price point.

Refurbished Mac Pro 2.7GHz 12 Core Intel Xeon E5 - Apple (UK)

Apple Store Search Results

www.apple.com

 

[subi257]

I just received mine today, got an immaculately clean 6,1 from somebody on a facebook group. It is 12 core, 64GB RAM, dual D500 GPU and 512 GB SSD. I ordered a 1TB SSD Aura Pro X2 NVMe drive from OWC/macsales.com. got the computer for $1500 US. Want to get off of my 5,1 with dual 6 core 3.46 Xeons, it is on Mojave running a flashed GTX780 GPU and I really don't want to get into that whole open core stuff. I bet that I can part it out...including the spare dual CPU try and cards. and get back more that what I paid for the 6,1 Now I am just looking at what I have to do to migrate over.

 

[MisterAndrew]

I was happy to part with the 5,1 as well. I really enjoyed it, but it's at the end of support and I also wasn't interested in the hacks to get it on newer software. May as well build a hackintosh at that point, but of course that's not a good option either with the violation of Apple's licensing terms. The 6,1 is a better Mac Pro though. The size is so much better, the CPU is faster, and it has twice the memory bandwidth. The graphics aren't that bad either. Still better than any Mac mini. Eventually I'll transition to a 7,1 or newer, but the 6,1 is a great stepping stone from an older Mac Pro or Mac mini.

 

[avro707]

It’s funny that most of the people complaining about the 6,1 being too old are using an even older Mac Pro. Apple is still selling the 6,1 refurbished in the UK. It’s still the best desktop Mac at its price point.

Refurbished Mac Pro 2.7GHz 12 Core Intel Xeon E5 - Apple (UK)

Apple Store Search Results

www.apple.com

Wow that's expensive! Mine is the same except 2.4ghz 12 core. And I have the 2.7ghz processor coming soon. I didn't pay that much for mine, so it's a very exotic machine!

Must be said in terms of some graphics stuff, my 5,1 seems much faster.

I'm not using the 6,1 yet very much - I'm still waiting for a 4K display to arrive for it. It's a lovely machine.

I should say the 2013 seems inexpensive compared with this:

Refurbished Mac Pro 2.5GHz 28-core Intel Xeon W, Two Radeon Pro Vega II, Apple Afterburner

Originally released December 20192.5GHz 28‑core Intel Xeon W processor, Turbo Boost up to 4.4GHz48GB (6x8GB) of DDR4 ECC memoryTwo Radeon Pro Vega II Duo with 2x32GB of HBM2 memory each8TB SSD1 storageStainless steel frame with feetApple Afterburner

www.apple.com

Wow... You couldn't even make people believe you have a computer like that. Those specifications!

 

[plunger]

I don't personally own one, but I support some. Late-2013 Mac Pros excel with CPU tasks, the IvyBridge generation Xeons are a lot faster, first generation AVX is supported, but then you have all the project limitations that we don't have with MacPro5,1. You will need a TB chassis to upgrade anything. The 12+16 blade connector don't work with most 12+16 to NVMe adapters, most people have to thinker with it to get it right.

I like late-2013 MacPros, it's an iconic design and it's very useful for someone that compile a lot or use lot's of VMs, but for someone that need current GPUs or local storage, it's not the Mac to have.

Even knowing all the pros/cons, if I can get one with a good history and at the right price…

I impulsively bought one last week (12-core, 64GB RAM, 1TB SSD, D700 GPUS's) for around AUD1900 (around 1000EUR). Seemed like a good deal and at about half the price of other equivalent machines (plus postage) on eBay. The former owner lives close by and is a developer i.e. Xcode, VM's, etc.. The machine is in perfect condition; they are beautiful pieces of technology. I toyed with the idea of waiting to see what the next Mac-mini's looked like but in the end went for something with more presence! I'm hoping the GPU's don't go up in smoke for at least 12 months. If I spot another machine with D300's going cheap I might get it for spares. I've got TG Pro monitoring temperature, generally runs around 60C. Not sure if I should redo the thermal paste or just leave it alone.

 

[macguru9999]

I have had a couple of trashcans here, but I sold them. One I rebuilt and one I was given, both were working perfectly but I did not like them. I have 2 5,1 machines running catalina and I would not sell them.

The main problem with the 6,1 is the limited I/O. You only have 4 usb3 ports. So you end up with alot of hubs. The TB2 ports can be connected to a limited number of expensive accessories so they are not much use. The HDMI port has limited support for 4k. WHEREAS my main 5,1 has 4 usb3.1 ports, 5 internal sata drives and even a bluray burner which sees almost no use... And in normal usage there is not much difference in the speed. even the 12 core 6,1 did not seem fast except in benchmarks , but thats more a graphics issue.