Resolved Should I buy a mac to run Windows?

[ilan.]

Looking to replace my current Lenovo X1 laptop (x64, i9-10885H CPU @ 2.4GHz, 8 cores, 32Gb RAM). A non-negotiable for me with the replacement is the Windows OS.

I have always used Lenovo and have been very happy for the most part, but this last laptop has been terribl - this was supposed to be top of the line but has been anything but. For my replacement if I'm going to be paying that much money for hardware I want somethinig that will work. While I need the Windows OS I rate Mac's technology and build quality very highly. I would likely be getting the 14" 12-Core CPU, 19-Core GPU, 16GB Unified Memory, 1TB SSD Storage Macbook Pro.

My questions are:

• Am I giving up any meaningful performance running Windows (through Bootcamp) on a Mac?
• Am I likely to run into any issues running windows applications on an ARM processor?
  • I have read a bunch of articles on this but I'm still not entirely sure
  • I think these were mostly issues of a couple of years ago as more and more Windows applications would now be designed for ARM processors, but I'd appreciate guidance on this. (I will not be using the laptop for gaming.)
  • I am a very heavy Microsoft Office user, particuarly Excel and I need all of the VBA capabilities that Windows offers. Are there any issues/risks here?
• How much of a performance jump should I expect if I upgrade to the 32GB option? (for ~$1,000 more)
• Anything I am missing

Thanks in advance!

 

[OrenLindsey]

bootcamp only works on intel Macs (unless you're willing to try some goofy workarounds). You'd have to run a VM to run windows.

 

[iStorm]

To answer the title of the thread, I would say "no". Bootcamp doesn't work on Apple Silicon Macs. Bootcamp used to let you run Windows (x64) natively on Intel Macs. (Actually, you didn't even need Bootcamp...it's just basically a utility to partition your drive and let you dual-boot.) With Apple Silicon Macs, you are running the ARM version of Windows inside a virtual machine...and then your x86/x64 apps are emulated. Some software could still have issues. You cannot install Windows for ARM on Apple Silicon natively or dual-boot. I would just get a PC if you are really needing to use Windows.

 

[russell_314]

No. For multiple reasons

You’re paying for an OS and support that you’ll never use.

Windows on ARM isn’t the same as x86

There are so many good Windows laptops out there.

 

[ilan.]

Thanks everyone, hearing the guidance here loud and clear! Appreciate all of the background as to why it wouldn't work either - I have read bits and pieces online but never really 'got it'. Now I do, so thanks very much.

I'll continue my search!

 

[BotchQue]

I agree with the above posters, and your final decision.
In my simpleton way of thinking, you were proposing to buy the world's most overpriced hardware to run the world's most invasive/buggy software (I haven't touched windoze since retiring, so my simpleton thinking may also be outdated).

 

[ilan.]

I totally get it. I need Windows for my client work, so that's a non-negotiable. I was only looking at mac because I do rate the build quality, notwithstanding they are overpriced. And I'm out of ideas, because I thought I was getting the best PC-based laptop with X1 and have been bitterly disappointed

 

[WanderlustSoul]

What other Windows applications do you need to run on your MacBook Pro? You mentioned that you are a heavy user of Microsoft Office, which is also available for Mac. However, I'm not sure if all features like VBA will be available in the Mac version of Microsoft Office. If you need to run more Windows-only apps on your new MacBook Pro, you will need to use virtual machines.

 

[ilan.]

Yeah it's mainly VBA - full suite - that I need. I have read a fair bit on this and as trivial as it may seem this alone makes iOS a non-starter. Seems like a VM is the only way to go if I do Mac, which I think doesn't make much sense

 

[WanderlustSoul]

While virtual machines provide flexibility, there is one notable limitation to be aware of. Specifically, if you find Windows 10 or 11 performs sluggishly on a Windows laptop, you can expect an even more pronounced lag when running the same operating systems in a virtual environment. I've noticed this with my Windows 11 running in a VM. But I haven't tried that many VM software to be able to provide an informed decision, use those trial period to your advantage with as many VM as you can.

 

[arthur486]

I still think ThinkPads are great Windows laptop, even though you've had troubles with yours That's what I'd still look at for a Windows machine. Like the commenters above, I would not buy a Mac to primarily run Windows. Even if you can use bootcamp on Intel Macs, by this time they are already old, and those drivers were never properly optimized (higher temps, lower battery life etc.).

 

[OrenLindsey]

See if you can get a framework laptop. They're really good.

 

[Spaceboi Scaphandre]

Looking to replace my current Lenovo X1 laptop (x64, i9-10885H CPU @ 2.4GHz, 8 cores, 32Gb RAM). A non-negotiable for me with the replacement is the Windows OS.

I have always used Lenovo and have been very happy for the most part, but this last laptop has been terribl - this was supposed to be top of the line but has been anything but. For my replacement if I'm going to be paying that much money for hardware I want somethinig that will work. While I need the Windows OS I rate Mac's technology and build quality very highly. I would likely be getting the 14" 12-Core CPU, 19-Core GPU, 16GB Unified Memory, 1TB SSD Storage Macbook Pro.

My questions are:

• Am I giving up any meaningful performance running Windows (through Bootcamp) on a Mac?

Well firstly you cannot install Windows on the ARM Macs as Windows for ARM is exclusive to Qualcomm PCs. To run Windows for ARM on a Macbook it will have to be ran through a virtual machine

• Am I likely to run into any issues running windows applications on an ARM processor?
  • I have read a bunch of articles on this but I'm still not entirely sure
  • I think these were mostly issues of a couple of years ago as more and more Windows applications would now be designed for ARM processors, but I'd appreciate guidance on this. (I will not be using the laptop for gaming.)

Running through a VM you shouldn't have issues but all I can say is your mileage may vary. I should note Windows for ARM and it's respective apps do run miles better on the ARM Macs than they do Microsoft's own Surface laptops due to the performance gains of the M series chips over Qualcomm's Snapdragons, and even performing better than a lot of Intel's flagships

• • I am a very heavy Microsoft Office user, particuarly Excel and I need all of the VBA capabilities that Windows offers. Are there any issues/risks here?

You know Microsoft Office is natively supported on macOS right? You don't need Windows for Office on a Mac. The full 365 suite is native to Apple Silicon, including the Microsoft ecosystem features.

VBA is not as good as on Windows due to Office for Mac being sandboxed but it does have VBA capabilities, even some exclusive to macOS https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/office/vba/api/overview/office-mac

• How much of a performance jump should I expect if I upgrade to the 32GB option? (for ~$1,000 more)

More RAM is benefitical for virtual machines since you can allocate more into the VM but Windows VMs on the ARM Macs are a whole nother topic.

Fortunately MacRumors has a guide on deciding between 16 gb of RAM or 32.

16GB vs. 32GB MacBook Pro: How Much RAM is Enough?

Apple's high-end 14-inch and 16-inch MacBook Pro offers the M1 Pro chip with 16GB of RAM as standard, but you can upgrade to 32GB of RAM for...

www.macrumors.com

• Anything I am missing

Thanks in advance!

Well I guess my question is, what would you use it for besides Office with VBA because it sounds like from what you're asking in terms of your usecase you don't need to run Windows on that Mac at all and can just use macOS, unless there's a specific app you use that is only on Windows

 

[Spaceboi Scaphandre]

Yeah it's mainly VBA - full suite - that I need. I have read a fair bit on this and as trivial as it may seem this alone makes iOS a non-starter. Seems like a VM is the only way to go if I do Mac, which I think doesn't make much sense

Office for Mac does have VBA. Not as much as Windows due to Office for Mac being sandboxed but it does have it, even some VBA commands exclusive to macOS https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/office/vba/api/overview/office-mac

 

[nathan_reilly]

I run windows 10 on a 2006 Mac Pro that is loaded up with lots of fun parts. I also run windows 10 on a 2012 Mac Pro that is also loaded up with even more fun parts. Parts are plentiful and the machines are very performant. Used for CAD (2012 Mac Pro) and running two CNC machines (2006 Mac Pro). I like having lots of fans because machine shops are not the cleanest and extra air flow is nice. I would not hesitate to pick up another 2012 Mac Pro for more windows 10 applications if I needed. I think they are probably peak Mac.

 

[ipaqrat]

It's a shame that Lenovo is having a bad time with quality. ThinkPads used to be the gold standard, but are now merely commodity. Apple's reputation for superior engineering/build is blown a bit out of proportion; they've had their share of boners. If Windows is what you really need, there'd be no value putting up with Apple's 8u115hit on top of Microsoft's. If I needed Windows, I'd consider a Framework, but their supply lines have been patchy.

 

[ilan.]

Thank you everyone for your tips and guidance. Seems like there is a bit to think about, and am leaning towards not going down the Mac route (notwithstanding a few helpful comments from people that have made that work). I know I haven't fully articulated my logic but there are other good reasons for Windows, so unfortunately that is a non-negotiable. Will review all of the suggestions above for next steps - thanks again!

 

[MBAir2010]

Thank you everyone for your tips and guidance. Seems like there is a bit to think about, and am leaning towards not going down the Mac route

what company laptop or PC do you use now?

 

[ilan.]

Lenovo X1. Have been using Lenovo for past 10 years or so and have been very happy until now - hardware quality, non-stop issues, lack of support from Lenovo. There is simply zero chance I will buy Lenovo again

 

[MBAir2010]

what I read recently Lenovo was Legend computers in China since 1992 or started in 1985
then they purchased IBM in 200? and had a chip that gathered user info in every laptop they produced globally.
hopefully they stopped that spring
they did make great laptops.
Dell used to as well, now they make swell XPS that literally swelled!
my XPS 9370 lated only four years were the usb ports failed along with horrible battery replacement support.
dell would not reply to my repair requests last September.

I would not give up on Apple which is now is second to none is battery life, speed and security
but if one is not used to, or likes the system that change might be tough

last week I had to get a new adaptor for my MacBook Air 2010 which I did at great price.
I cant see any PC company doing the same thing.

hopefully this message did not confuse or sway you.....

 

[ilan.]

You raise a good broader point which is that no Windows manufacturers seem to be doing a great job. Lenovo and Dell seem to be the go-to's (outside of the Surface range) for good quality high-end laptops, but both brands also seem to have major problems as well. I would love to go down the Mac route but it needs to be Windows and it seems like there are too many red flags/compromises given how much I would be paying...

 

[sgtaylor5]

but then, I wouldn't buy an XPS (high-end consumer class) anyway, try a Latitude (business class) instead. Might be better quality. You'll always find bad computers from any manufacturer; return a bad one fast, within the return window.

 

[ilan.]

Good tip, thanks. Funnily enough I did this with my Lenovo X1. Got a replacement which continued to have issues and I guess they just wore me out fast. They obviously know once you have a computer set-up for work purposes it's not that simple to just send it back or request a technician when it takes weeks to resolve. They wore me down pretty early and so I just put up with a crap computer. I have learned my lesson...