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Should I wait for the second generation NMP?

M

mfln

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Feb 4, 2014
4
0
Hi!

Longtime reader, first time poster.

I work with live visual arts, and are currently using two Macbook Pro Retina (one as a primary computer, one as a backup) however I´ve been looking at selling one of them and buying a Mac Pro. I would love to get some opinions on this.

After tax deductions, and the sale of the older and well used 1. generation Retina I am looking at about 1000$ dollars extra for the base config Mac Pro. I normally use FCPX and Motion for my editing, in many different resolutions, everything from 1280 x 720 to stranger resolutions like 3000 x 1000 etc. So my editing software benefits from dual gpu´s, however, my live software won´t. Another benefit for me would be able to output to 7 displays simultaneously, as I use a multitude of projectors for my shows.

Since the new Mac Pro is the first version in that form factor, would it make sense to just stick with my laptops until a second version gets released? Do you think its gonna get updated every year? Or will it make more sense to just buy it now?

- Mads
 
Wait, V2 will be way better, they always are but it may take a while.
 
Do you need it now? Yeah? Then buy it now. If you can wait, then wait. If your machines are doing what you want them to do without issue, hold onto your cash.
 
If you can wait and don't need a new computer now, then that's usually the best advice.

So far, it seems that the nMP is a pretty solid performer, if I were to get it, I'd also include apple care for the extra 2 years
 
First, I'd recommend buying it with base config and the maxed out D700 GPUs, just upgrade the rest as needed down the road.

Being able to output multiple video streams simultaneously & natively would be very beneficial for you, so I'd say take the leap. I'd buy one tomorrow if I new I'd be using it to a degree of its potential beyond what anything they currently offer can support.
 
I waited for this one, so... I creeped my rationale all the way to purchase pretty easily.

Waiting is at least a year, maybe longer. That's a lot of shows.

MacPro does not get updated very often. The MacPro holds resale value pretty well, for a computer.

If anything, Intel is the hold-up for any serious CPU advancements. Apple looks committed to the single socket, so... not much is going to happen on this front. Maybe the 8c will be a little more affordable?

The video cards are probably the weakest link in some ways. IF they become a problem, then sell it off.

PCIe SSD is fast now, and for the near term. It looks like it can be replaced eventually as only one screw holds it in.

For live events, this thing is very portable for the power it packs. You won't look like a tool creeping around the hotel with this thing.

You have a paying use for them now.

One thing though, you can't lock this thing down. Aftermarket locks are starting to show up for about $90.

Also, purchase with an eye towards reselling. I think the 6c would be better than the 4c in this regard.

I've had mine for 4 days and I've already made it do work and it's been pretty solid for me. No v1.0 mayhem that I can tell, yet.

I'd say purchase.
 
You guys kinda summarised the thoughts I had. If I wait for a second generation, for sure it will be better. But then again, how long would the wait be?

On the other hand, I don´t really NEED it now. My Macbook Pro retina works just fine in most situations. It would be kinda handy with those extra outputs, and some extra editing power. But it´s not a NEED as per today.

I wont be able to max out the GPU since I am on a limited budget, and my live visual apps are not coded to take advantage of them anyway (which is another pro to waiting)

How do you guys think the aftermarked upgrade options will be?
 
You might be waiting a while. It's not like the MP got significant improvements every single year. It's entirely possible the 6,1 could see nothing more than spec bumps for a year or two.

Unless you need 4K at 60Hz over HDMI, I'd go ahead jump in now. But nobody knows for sure what the future will bring except Apple.
 
mfln said:
You guys kinda summarised the thoughts I had. If I wait for a second generation, for sure it will be better. But then again, how long would the wait be?
Click to expand...

Minimally late Q4 2014. Reasonably good chance it will be Q1 2015 or a bit later. Both Intel CPU and GPUs technology are due for an upgrade in 2014 ( CPU Q4 2014 but Intel may slide out the CPU upgrade to 2015 (if track record over last 2 years holds up and their revenues continue to so tepid growth in demand).

"... Assuming the clock rates stay similar to the current E5v2, the top end of the Xeon E5v3, when they officially surface likely at (or just before) the next Intel Fall IDF in San Francisco, ... "
http://vr-zone.com/articles/haswell...ntel-server-cpu-gravy-train-speeds/66841.html
Intel is reportedly on track to do an E5 upgrade about a year after the E5 v2 announcement. But announcing doesn't necessarily mean shipping in sufficient quantities at workstation volumes.



While Intel may "announce" E5v3 around September Intel Developer Forum timeframe ( so they can get a subset into systems for Top500 Supercomputer systems before that November date for new benchmarks ), it is doubtful they will be in shipping quantities to more general systems before well into Q4 2014 if not sliding into 2015.

Apple also isn't going to be in a hurry given probably want catch up to meet Mac Pro demand for this version for another month or so. Around 12 months after they stabilize what they are selling is more likely a refresh date. Throw on top need logic board update because chipsets and RAM technology have changed and likely new GPUs and kind of doubtful they are going to quick turn all that inside of a year.


On the other hand, I don´t really NEED it now. My Macbook Pro retina works just fine in most situations. It would be kinda handy with those extra outputs,
Click to expand...

If going to generate substantially more revenue then worth buying. If is just going to be "cool", "handy", and "nifty" then not. If primiarily paying for this by tax hocus pocus and selling previous relatively young equipment then it is probably isn't generating enough revenue to pay for itself. If the computer can't pay for itself it isn't particularly well motivated business wise.
 
I would wait
Thats what i'm doing.
It seems like there is some major bugs with 2013/14 models.
Just read some threads on here.
Fan issues (noise and clicking noise )
USB3.0 speed issues
no video, or slow video
4k speed issues
Wait till they fix the bugs, unless you have to have one now.
 
Im waiting a minimum of 1 year to a maximum of 2. My 1,1 is on its last legs but with the upgrades ive made thanks to here I can work and thrive with more powerful cpus and Mavericks. I actually placed an order for it but immediately had buyers remorse and cancelled it because of the v1 mayhem.

but as others have said, if your work demands the hardware let it pay itself off and get it.
 
mfln said:
You guys kinda summarised the thoughts I had. If I wait for a second generation, for sure it will be better. But then again, how long would the wait be?

On the other hand, I don´t really NEED it now. My Macbook Pro retina works just fine in most situations. It would be kinda handy with those extra outputs, and some extra editing power. But it´s not a NEED as per today.

I wont be able to max out the GPU since I am on a limited budget, and my live visual apps are not coded to take advantage of them anyway (which is another pro to waiting)

How do you guys think the aftermarked upgrade options will be?
Click to expand...

Another member tested and compared the new Mac Pro to his Macbook Pro. https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1699116/

However, the comparison was for a specific task and there may be other variables. Generally, the new Mac Pro is fast specially the 6 core and 8 core models. I echo what other members have advised, just wait for the second generation since as you mentioned, for now it is not an immediate need.
 
Last edited:
carlosm86 said:
cancelled it because of the v1 mayhem.
Click to expand...

4dtough said:
It seems like there is some major bugs with 2013/14 models.
Just read some threads on here.
Fan issues (noise and clicking noise )
USB3.0 speed issues
no video, or slow video
4k speed issues
Wait till they fix the bugs, unless you have to have one now.
Click to expand...

Huh? I'm as active as anyone on here, and I haven't seen such issues. I vaguely recall one guy getting one that was a dud and having it replaced but there are certainly no design issues that are affecting a wide variety of systems. I think most problems are related to the peripherals people are using, but even then, I haven't seen a lot of issues. I certainly don't have a single problem with mine.

In fact, my nMP has a lot less issues than my old 4,1 Mac Pro. That thing had flaky bluetooth reception, crappy USB3 reliability (sometimes worked, sometimes not), occasionally ejecting my RAID array, noisy fans (probably due to age) and every time I booted it was a lottery as to which display would be treated as primary.
 
I'm getting one as soon as my taxes are sorted out and wait times shorten to under 4 weeks. Preferably under 3 weeks.

They took so long to update this thing that I'm certainly not holding off for the next round. I think it will be at least a year before they update. They can't even fulfill the present orders, so that is their priority, at least I'm guessing.

Geez, I've been holding off for so long already just waiting for this version. The real question is when software gets the update, not the MP.
 
Im slowly saving cash and will buy a new mac pro when the 2nd generation hits. I was going to buy one of the current ones but the performance improvements over my 2009 machine (which has been beefed up) are not as great as I'd expected. And, my current Mac actually does everything I need it to.
 
mfln said:
On the other hand, I don´t really NEED it now.
Click to expand...

Well, there's your answer. If your professional needs don't dictate upgrading, don't upgrade. Computers are a depreciating asset, and you will lose money on the purchase. But I can sense there's a "but I want it!" factor for you, and that's something only you can decide. But then just be honest with yourself that you're buying it because of tech lust.

Personally speaking, I'm waiting for the next update. The performance gains aren't enough for my needs to justify, although the power savings on my electric bill is tempting. By the next update, Thunderbolt accessories and enclosures should hopefully have come down in price, so the overall cost-of-ownership for a nMP will be less. I'm also waiting to see if Logic Pro X will get an update to take advantage of Open CL (though I'm starting to believe this won't happen).
 
4dtough said:
I would wait
Thats what i'm doing.
It seems like there is some major bugs with 2013/14 models.
Just read some threads on here.
Fan issues (noise and clicking noise )
USB3.0 speed issues
no video, or slow video
4k speed issues
Wait till they fix the bugs, unless you have to have one now.
Click to expand...

Hmm, from what I've read

The fan issue only affects some and chances are it's a manufacturing defect on Apple side (call AppleCare and get it sorted out)

USB3 speed issue is not fully Apple faults as current Xeons doesn't have native USB3 support, so with the current USB3 controller, it's a little slower.

No Video, or slow video? What does this suppose to mean? Are you referring to monitor output?

4K speed issues? This is likely to be related to software, FCPX flies on this, so if you're referring on Premiere Pro or other NLE/Video editing software, it's the software vendor which needs to update their software, Apple is not at fault here.

To the OP, you can wait for the new version, but it'll likely only be a minor speed bump update (if there is one), and from what I've read, Haswell will just be a power efficiency update rather then a performance update, so I don't think in terms of CPU performance, you'll see a considerable performance difference between the current nMP and whatever Haswell Apple chooses. How well the nMP performs will really depends if your software makes use of Dual GPU and OpenCL functions.
 
Yeah, I decided to wait for now. I always been in the view that I should have a computer as a backup in case something fails at a show, but then again, it quickly becomes more expensive as well. Projectors? For sure they fail all the time.

So I think I´m gonna keep my 2012 Macbook Pro Retina as far as I can, and then just opt for a nMP and maybe an iPad on the go after that. That way I can also see what upgrade options becomes available, or third-party workarounds. I was thinking about the older MP, but that would make it very impractical for shows. Who knows, maybe even the Mac Mini will work for me in a couple of years.

Thanks everybody who contributed with fast and helpful answers, that made the decision alot easier for me!
 
We stack projectors. So if one blows, the screen is just a little more dim than the other screens. We also have a spare projector.

I play H264 video off my 11" Air in some situations. A mini is already a lot more powerful than that.
 
VirtualRain said:
Huh? I'm as active as anyone on here, and I haven't seen such issues. I vaguely recall one guy getting one that was a dud and having it replaced but there are certainly no design issues that are affecting a wide variety of systems. I think most problems are related to the peripherals people are using, but even then, I haven't seen a lot of issues. I certainly don't have a single problem with mine.

In fact, my nMP has a lot less issues than my old 4,1 Mac Pro. That thing had flaky bluetooth reception, crappy USB3 reliability (sometimes worked, sometimes not), occasionally ejecting my RAID array, noisy fans (probably due to age) and every time I booted it was a lottery as to which display would be treated as primary.
Click to expand...

yep...x2. very few issues reported (with the mac pro itself), esp with all the fuss made over apple v1 releases.

a 'possibly noisy fan' reported by a user or two (and generally they haven't even been sure what they are supposed to hear) is really about it.

yes, we did hear about a dud or two, but having a DOA unit is a risk with any electronic unit being shipped.
 
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