Other SIM tray or mmWave?

[JPack]

It sounds like Apple had to cut costs on the U.S. iPhone 14. The removal of the SIM tray doesn't result in a bigger battery, just a deleted feature. Models outside U.S. still have a SIM tray, but don't have an mmWave antenna.

Mid-Band 5G - 3.5 Gbits/sec
mmWave 5G - 4 Gbits/sec

 

[TechLord]

Have never turned on 5g ever. Sim tray is a lot more valuable. Thankfully us non Americans keep it for now.

 

[snipr125]

Have never turned on 5g ever. Sim tray is a lot more valuable. Thankfully us non Americans keep it for now.

At the expense of significant price increases though!

 

[jimthing]

Just buy from a UK seller on Ebay.

There are loads every year, especially selling the 1TB model. Although at launch, given the price here is £1750 (just £1550 last year!) for the top model Max, they'll likely be on Ebay at £2500 (US$2900).

 

[uuee6543]

Just buy from a UK seller on Ebay.

There are loads every year, especially selling the 1TB model. Although at launch, given the price here is £1750 (just £1550 last year!) for the top model Max, they'll likely be on Ebay at £2500 (US$2900).

Why would he buy from the UK when he can buy from Canada for much cheaper and if he lives close to Canadian birder he can even pick one up in person. UK is such an arbitrary suggestion lol especially given the £150 increase across the entire line up.

 

[jimthing]

Why would he buy from the UK when he can buy from Canada for much cheaper and if he lives close to Canadian birder he can even pick one up in person. UK is such an arbitrary suggestion lol especially given the £150 increase across the entire line up.

Thats a big presumption that they live near the border. If not, then the distance is irrelevant. Canada has higher taxes inc. GST too, so the price difference is likely not very different.

 

[uuee6543]

Thats a big presumption that they live near the border. If not, then the distance is irrelevant. Canada has higher taxes inc. GST too, so the price difference is likely not very different.

Have you seen iPhone prices in the UK this year? They are 15% higher than last year which make them 35-40% higher than in the US… UK has VAT which is an equivalent of Canadian GST, but higher.

 

[jimthing]

Have you seen iPhone prices in the UK this year? They are 15% higher than last year which make them 35-40% higher than in the US… UK has VAT which is an equivalent of Canadian GST, but higher.

I'm from the UK, and travel to north America regularly, hence why I bothered to make you aware of the point re. GST+other Canadian local taxes.

And no, the prices are not 35-40% higher than the US, even before you add the maximum ~13% sales tax you can pay in the US.

 

[lordhamster]

It sounds like Apple had to cut costs on the U.S. iPhone 14. The removal of the SIM tray doesn't result in a bigger battery, just a deleted feature. Models outside U.S. still have a SIM tray, but don't have an mmWave antenna.

Mid-Band 5G - 3.5 Gbits/sec
mmWave 5G - 4 Gbits/sec

Your speed estimates are way off reality.

Fastest mid-band 5G I ever saw was 1.5gbps
Fastest mmWave was just a smidge under 4gbps. But there are very few places where mmWave exists and unless you are working outside with direct line of sight it is entirely impractical.

 

[jimthing]

Outside

Your speed estimates are way off reality.

Fastest mid-band 5G I ever saw was 1.5gbps
Fastest mmWave was just a smidge under 4gbps. But there are very few places where mmWave exists and unless you are working outside with direct line of sight it is entirely impractical.

Outside the US, do any other major countries have mmWave yet –e.g. UK, for example– or is it just pretty much the (very enthusiastic) US carriers only right now?

EDIT: https://www.sdxcentral.com/articles/analysis/qualcomm-hypes-5g-mmwave-momentum/2022/04/
I found the article above, from Apr.2022 which says US/Jap/Singapore right now, with Italy and another 5 major European countries due to get 'spectrum allocated by early 2023'.

So Apple are not doing it in non-US 14-series models outside the US, as only spectrum allocation is in early 2023, with build-out throughout 2023 and beyond. So maybe by the time it's (partially) finally up and running, it'll be Autumn 2023 and iPhone 15-series models will thus get it outside the US then.

 

[LIVEFRMNYC]

I live in NYC, mmWave has become very common here. Plus I get around 600Mbps down and 70Mbps up inside my home. Those speeds really come in handy.

 

[JPack]

Your speed estimates are way off reality.

Fastest mid-band 5G I ever saw was 1.5gbps
Fastest mmWave was just a smidge under 4gbps. But there are very few places where mmWave exists and unless you are working outside with direct line of sight it is entirely impractical.

Numbers provided by Apple during their Spring 2021 event.

The mid-band 5G numbers involve carrier aggregation. T-Mobile demoed it recently hitting 3 Gbps.

 

[uuee6543]

I'm from the UK, and travel to north America regularly, hence why I bothered to make you aware of the point re. GST+other Canadian local taxes.

And no, the prices are not 35-40% higher than the US, even before you add the maximum ~13% sales tax you can pay in the US.

You’re right they are around 30% higher ‘only’. Take 13 pro max starting price in US$ for example:

US: $1100
UK: $1400
~28% difference.

Of course this doesn’t include sales tax but you can buy your iPhone in Delaware Christiana Mall or similar and pay no sales tax. Most states have sales tax below 8pc anyway.

 

[Fred Zed]

As much as I’d love to have a sim tray and forego mmWave , I decided against paying and waiting for a grey import. What with issues I’ve had with the last 12 and 13 series pros brand new out of the box I think the returns and such process and waiting will diminish me. 😭

 

[Nahmeanz]

Outside

Outside the US, do any other major countries have mmWave yet –e.g. UK, for example– or is it just pretty much the (very enthusiastic) US carriers only right now?

EDIT: https://www.sdxcentral.com/articles/analysis/qualcomm-hypes-5g-mmwave-momentum/2022/04/
I found the article above, from Apr.2022 which says US/Jap/Singapore right now, with Italy and another 5 major European countries due to get 'spectrum allocated by early 2023'.

So Apple are not doing it in non-US 14-series models outside the US, as only spectrum allocation is in early 2023, with build-out throughout 2023 and beyond. So maybe by the time it's (partially) finally up and running, it'll be Autumn 2023 and iPhone 15-series models will thus get it outside the US then.

What’s weird is that iPhones sold in Japan and Singapore are not mmWave compatible. I was planning to get an iPhone in Singapore but opted not to because of this.

 

[lordhamster]

Numbers provided by Apple during their Spring 2021 event.

The mid-band 5G numbers involve carrier aggregation. T-Mobile demoed it recently hitting 3 Gbps.

It may well be possible, but as a guy who follows t-mobile closely and lives for speed tests posted on /r/t-mobile I've never seen a midband test get anywhere near that...yet. Frankly IMO most T-Mo sites are hurt by lack of adequate backhaul, even if the site has plenty of spectrum capacity.

 

[stu.h]

Why would he buy from the UK when he can buy from Canada for much cheaper and if he lives close to Canadian birder he can even pick one up in person. UK is such an arbitrary suggestion lol especially given the £150 increase across the entire line up.

My 14PM is £100 more than my 12PM. Not sure what the 13PM prices were last year.

 

[LIVEFRMNYC]

It may well be possible, but as a guy who follows t-mobile closely and lives for speed tests posted on /r/t-mobile I've never seen a midband test get anywhere near that...yet. Frankly IMO most T-Mo sites are hurt by lack of adequate backhaul, even if the site has plenty of spectrum capacity.

Most I've seen T-mobile get is 1.3gb.
Most I've seen Verizon get is 2.1gb.

But there's a ton more mmWave spots on T-mobile vs Verizon. At least in my city.

 

[lordhamster]

Most I've seen T-mobile get is 1.3gb.
Most I've seen Verizon get is 2.1gb.

But there's a ton more mmWave spots on T-mobile vs Verizon. At least in my city.

Just want to clarify what I read. Are you saying you've experienced T-Mobile mmWave? I've seen tons of T-Mobile "UC" in the C-band midrange but have never seen a mmWave implementation by them. Verizion on the other hand has both midrange and mmWave, with a boat ton of mmWave on some streets in downtown Cleveland area. mmWave I've experienced is cool, but the footprint is so small that outside of niche cases like serving sports stadiums, airports or university quads it is kinda pointless.

If the verizon speed you got is 2.1gb that is consitent with what I've experienced from their mmWave, but I've never seen that on c-band.

On the other hand the 1.3gb on T-mobile is absolutely consistent with their C-band. Even here in Cleveland I've gotten just a hair under 1gb in many places. I have no doubt that in NYC for example I could see 1.3 with proper backhaul and tower placement on C-band.

 

[LIVEFRMNYC]

Just want to clarify what I read. Are you saying you've experienced T-Mobile mmWave? I've seen tons of T-Mobile "UC" in the C-band midrange but have never seen a mmWave implementation by them. Verizion on the other hand has both midrange and mmWave, with a boat ton of mmWave on some streets in downtown Cleveland area. mmWave I've experienced is cool, but the footprint is so small that outside of niche cases like serving sports stadiums, airports or university quads it is kinda pointless.

If the verizon speed you got is 2.1gb that is consitent with what I've experienced from their mmWave, but I've never seen that on c-band.

On the other hand the 1.3gb on T-mobile is absolutely consistent with their C-band. Even here in Cleveland I've gotten just a hair under 1gb in many places. I have no doubt that in NYC for example I could see 1.3 with proper backhaul and tower placement on C-band.

I just checked (currently in Manhattan) with an app.

T-mobile (UC) mmwave is mostly mid band with some high band. Verizon (UW) mmwave is more even out.

 

[lordhamster]

I just checked (currently in Manhattan) with an app.

T-mobile (UC) mmwave is mostly mid band with some high band. Verizon (UW) mmwave is more even out.

mmWave and Midband are two very different things. I think you might be conflating the marketing terms used (Verizon - Ultra Wideband, T-Mobile - Ultra Capacity)... with the underlying technology.

There are 3 general "types" of 5G

Low Band - Slowest but with furthest reach
Mid Band - Fast with medium reach (this is the one t-mobile is heavily invested in and verizon has also started rolling out)
High Band - Otherwise known as millimeter wave because it is the very very high frequency range. Meaning it can be wicked fast, but has limited range and is easily blocked by the flimsiest of obstructions. This is the one where Verizon has the biggest footprint among the carriers, but still tiny compared to coverage overall. You'll see this tech clustered at venues and the core downtown areas of big cities.


Collectively all the carriers refer to Mid & Band AND mmWave (high band) 5G as:

• 5G+ - AT&Ts designation for mid band and mmWave
• 5GUC - T-Mobile's designation for mid band and mmWave
• 5GUW - Verizon's designation for midband and mmWave

 

[LIVEFRMNYC]

mmWave and Midband are two very different things. I think you might be conflating the marketing terms used (Verizon - Ultra Wideband, T-Mobile - Ultra Capacity)... with the underlying technology.

There are 3 general "types" of 5G

Low Band - Slowest but with furthest reach
Mid Band - Fast with medium reach (this is the one t-mobile is heavily invested in and verizon has also started rolling out)
High Band - Otherwise known as millimeter wave because it is the very very high frequency range. Meaning it can be wicked fast, but has limited range and is easily blocked by the flimsiest of obstructions. This is the one where Verizon has the biggest footprint among the carriers, but still tiny compared to coverage overall. You'll see this tech clustered at venues and the core downtown areas of big cities.


Collectively all the carriers refer to Mid & Band AND mmWave (high band) 5G as:

• 5G+ - AT&Ts designation for mid band and mmWave
• 5GUC - T-Mobile's designation for mid band and mmWave
• 5GUW - Verizon's designation for midband and mmWave

Yes I know the tech behind it, but Verizon uses a higher spectrum of high bands. (I think).

 

[lordhamster]

Yes I know the tech behind it, but Verizon uses a higher spectrum of high bands. (I think).

Verizon uses Midband spectrum called C-band (around 3.7GHz) , as well as mmWave (28-39GHz) spectrum. They call them both Ultra Wideband 5G in their marketing and on the phone.

T-Mobile's midband is around 2.5Ghz

Point I'm trying to make is that the mmWave deployments are tiny and of little consequence outside of very specific locations. Though I'd rather have mmWave onboard than a sim card tray which in my years of international travel I personally never once used.

 

[LIVEFRMNYC]

On the other hand the 1.3gb on T-mobile is absolutely consistent with their C-band. Even here in Cleveland I've gotten just a hair under 1gb in many places. I have no doubt that in NYC for example I could see 1.3 with proper backhaul and tower placement on C-band.

Okay, now I got you. I didn't realize Midband was that fast. I was thinking it caps at around 600mpbs. At least that what it used to be.

So my question is why isn't T-mobile high band (mmwave) faster than their C-band? Cause I check what spectrum I'm on sometimes, and it's definitely mmwave.