Ok, before I say anything, yes, I'm an architect level developer on both Apple and Windows platforms and I'm also a SysAdmin for a few small businesses. I know about TCP/IP routing tables, NAT, proxies and services are as well as what pointers to double-buffered rendering. I know the difference between Qt and FTP. I know what server-class services like DNS and a CalDav server are. I've set up Windows servers before (including Exchange! Ugh! Nightmare!!!) as well as SL Servers, including all services and configured them to centrally manage all the iMac clients and no, I didn't need to use the new 'wizards' or other hand-holding GUIs. I'm quite familiar with SSH and telnet and the console is my friend.
In short, yes I know the difference between what a client OS is for and what a server OS is for.
I have to pre-state that because of the bash-fest that went on over in this thread...
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/793543/
...where something similar was asked. While yes, the OP's initial comment was a bit off-putting, the ensuing outpouring of references to consumers vs admins, the store's web site page differences for the minis and my favorite recurring comment... the constant replies of 'if you have to ask, you don't need it!'... both funny and kind of sad at the same time, I swear... more ink (type?) was wasted on defending each other's position instead of helping answer the original question. And it makes me feel the need to overly and emphatically state that yes, I do actually know the difference, and yes, I know in my case, I need server! That isn't my question. (Wasn't that OPs either, but again, I do understand the comments even if I don't completely agree with how they were made.)
That said, I'll try asking the same thing, but a little differently here.
I am planning to run SL server here at my small business where I actually have several employees who all currently use iMacs. I need centralized management, patch deployment, network-based profiles, a FTP server, an intranet server and a wiki as well as other things like a shared calendar and inter-office chat. In short, I want SLS to act in the role of a server here.
Now... In addition to the client machines, I have a three-year old Mac Mini with 2 GB Ram and a 250 GB hard drive (2.5", 4200 RPM notebook type.... i.e. slow!!) that's acting as a simple file share but is otherwise just sitting there doing nothing (except the occasional Hulu session on a projector.) But I also have as *my* client machine a Mac Pro with dual quad-core 3.2 GHz processors, 16GB of RAM and 5TB of space in two separate mirrored raid arrays. It's also sharing three printers and two scanners. Both the Mini and the Pro are left on 24/7 and no, neither are set to sleep. I'm also planning on wiping the Pro's system partition and reinstalling the OS anyway so I can upgrade to a bigger RAID array and sometimes it's just nicer to wipe the system (not the data tho!) and start fresh rather than to restore from a backup to get off all the old cruft, so installation isn't an issue either. Most importantly, I already own a retail license for SLS since I anticipated this need a few weeks back and bought one.
Obviously it makes more sense to put SLS on the Mac Pro from a hardware PoV but also obviously, with such a small number of users, even the Mini could easily handle the role of server. It's not recommended by Apple (I actually asked one of their sr. SL Server techs about the mini on a tech call I made a few months back while configuring of those SLS mini setups for a client where we ran into DNS issues with a time capsule running with it) but it's possible and according to them, it should be fine for anything under 10-20 clients.
My question is this (finally!!!...)
*Asides* from the added services and the tweaks and optimizations that favor background server services over foreground applications (i.e. that it is configured optimally for a server OS and not a client...) are there any *technical* limitations to using the server OS as my main client OS on the Pro which could easily handle me doing client things while also acting as a server for such a small group? (Plus, I can then repurpose that mini for something else too!)
Again, my Pro is on 24-7, and no, I don't do stupid crap on it that would make me have to reboot every five minutes or otherwise affect the clients (and even if I did, I know better than to do them during work hours when others are connected) nor do I again ever let the machine sleep since I call into them remotely all the time. The pro is a file and printer server already. Yes I know I can set up the SL client OS on the Pro for most of these server things with added software (and in a lot of cases, stuff that's already built-in to the client, like FTP or Apache.) And yes I also know it's *very* bad practice to use a server machine as a client and I even agree with that... in mid to large-sized businesses, but... (and I know I'll get flamed for this...) I think I can bend the rules in a very small configuration like this without blowing up the IT infrastructure, opening baby black holes in the space-time continuum of server-admin UTC time in the process.
Again, that's not what I'm asking. Of course feel free to share your opinion on that. I'd never say not to, especially after reading that other thread since doing so is just an invite for a nice roasting by all the flames defaming my credentials and insulting my abilities.... but again, that isn't what I'm asking.
Yes, SL server will run client software slower than SL client on the same machine because of all the extra background services and such, but I guarantee that Pro on it's worst day will still run software better than that Mini on its best! Again, not what I'm asking.
What I am asking is *TECHNICALLY*, from an OS/systems point of view *only*... will or won't 3rd-party client-focused software work on SL Server: things like Xcode or Adobe Creative Suite CS5 or things like Chrome, iLife, OpenOffice or even just iTunes? Will the OS support it or is it too stripped-down client-wise?
Some in the other threads say the core libraries aren't there in server--there's a bare minimum to make it *look* like the client GUI, while others say, yes, SLS basically has all the same core libs and frameworks as the client but *also* has all the extra, additional things for the server's services, plus the aforementioned preferences favoring them over the admin's GUI console (aka the desktop,) and also has all the client-centric things like bootcamp or iLife taken out as well (which I don't care about anyway. I'm interested in the frameworks and libs.)
Again, in short, I am looking for technical limitations caused by what is *in* client, that *isn't* in server--core os-wise, not iLife/boot camp-wise--that would stop me from using that Mac Pro as both a client and a server.
Stupid me didn't just ask the damn Apple server rep when I had him on the phone, and now I'd have to pay to call him back. Then again, crowd-sourcing answers is always more fun anyway. Where else can you be insulted for just asking questions??
Speaking of... let the bashings commence!!! I'm ready! I have my protective cup on and everything!!!
Mark
In short, yes I know the difference between what a client OS is for and what a server OS is for.
I have to pre-state that because of the bash-fest that went on over in this thread...
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/793543/
...where something similar was asked. While yes, the OP's initial comment was a bit off-putting, the ensuing outpouring of references to consumers vs admins, the store's web site page differences for the minis and my favorite recurring comment... the constant replies of 'if you have to ask, you don't need it!'... both funny and kind of sad at the same time, I swear... more ink (type?) was wasted on defending each other's position instead of helping answer the original question. And it makes me feel the need to overly and emphatically state that yes, I do actually know the difference, and yes, I know in my case, I need server! That isn't my question. (Wasn't that OPs either, but again, I do understand the comments even if I don't completely agree with how they were made.)
That said, I'll try asking the same thing, but a little differently here.
I am planning to run SL server here at my small business where I actually have several employees who all currently use iMacs. I need centralized management, patch deployment, network-based profiles, a FTP server, an intranet server and a wiki as well as other things like a shared calendar and inter-office chat. In short, I want SLS to act in the role of a server here.
Now... In addition to the client machines, I have a three-year old Mac Mini with 2 GB Ram and a 250 GB hard drive (2.5", 4200 RPM notebook type.... i.e. slow!!) that's acting as a simple file share but is otherwise just sitting there doing nothing (except the occasional Hulu session on a projector.) But I also have as *my* client machine a Mac Pro with dual quad-core 3.2 GHz processors, 16GB of RAM and 5TB of space in two separate mirrored raid arrays. It's also sharing three printers and two scanners. Both the Mini and the Pro are left on 24/7 and no, neither are set to sleep. I'm also planning on wiping the Pro's system partition and reinstalling the OS anyway so I can upgrade to a bigger RAID array and sometimes it's just nicer to wipe the system (not the data tho!) and start fresh rather than to restore from a backup to get off all the old cruft, so installation isn't an issue either. Most importantly, I already own a retail license for SLS since I anticipated this need a few weeks back and bought one.
Obviously it makes more sense to put SLS on the Mac Pro from a hardware PoV but also obviously, with such a small number of users, even the Mini could easily handle the role of server. It's not recommended by Apple (I actually asked one of their sr. SL Server techs about the mini on a tech call I made a few months back while configuring of those SLS mini setups for a client where we ran into DNS issues with a time capsule running with it) but it's possible and according to them, it should be fine for anything under 10-20 clients.
My question is this (finally!!!...)
*Asides* from the added services and the tweaks and optimizations that favor background server services over foreground applications (i.e. that it is configured optimally for a server OS and not a client...) are there any *technical* limitations to using the server OS as my main client OS on the Pro which could easily handle me doing client things while also acting as a server for such a small group? (Plus, I can then repurpose that mini for something else too!)
Again, my Pro is on 24-7, and no, I don't do stupid crap on it that would make me have to reboot every five minutes or otherwise affect the clients (and even if I did, I know better than to do them during work hours when others are connected) nor do I again ever let the machine sleep since I call into them remotely all the time. The pro is a file and printer server already. Yes I know I can set up the SL client OS on the Pro for most of these server things with added software (and in a lot of cases, stuff that's already built-in to the client, like FTP or Apache.) And yes I also know it's *very* bad practice to use a server machine as a client and I even agree with that... in mid to large-sized businesses, but... (and I know I'll get flamed for this...) I think I can bend the rules in a very small configuration like this without blowing up the IT infrastructure, opening baby black holes in the space-time continuum of server-admin UTC time in the process.
Again, that's not what I'm asking. Of course feel free to share your opinion on that. I'd never say not to, especially after reading that other thread since doing so is just an invite for a nice roasting by all the flames defaming my credentials and insulting my abilities.... but again, that isn't what I'm asking.
Yes, SL server will run client software slower than SL client on the same machine because of all the extra background services and such, but I guarantee that Pro on it's worst day will still run software better than that Mini on its best! Again, not what I'm asking.
What I am asking is *TECHNICALLY*, from an OS/systems point of view *only*... will or won't 3rd-party client-focused software work on SL Server: things like Xcode or Adobe Creative Suite CS5 or things like Chrome, iLife, OpenOffice or even just iTunes? Will the OS support it or is it too stripped-down client-wise?
Some in the other threads say the core libraries aren't there in server--there's a bare minimum to make it *look* like the client GUI, while others say, yes, SLS basically has all the same core libs and frameworks as the client but *also* has all the extra, additional things for the server's services, plus the aforementioned preferences favoring them over the admin's GUI console (aka the desktop,) and also has all the client-centric things like bootcamp or iLife taken out as well (which I don't care about anyway. I'm interested in the frameworks and libs.)
Again, in short, I am looking for technical limitations caused by what is *in* client, that *isn't* in server--core os-wise, not iLife/boot camp-wise--that would stop me from using that Mac Pro as both a client and a server.
Stupid me didn't just ask the damn Apple server rep when I had him on the phone, and now I'd have to pay to call him back. Then again, crowd-sourcing answers is always more fun anyway. Where else can you be insulted for just asking questions??
Speaking of... let the bashings commence!!! I'm ready! I have my protective cup on and everything!!!
Mark
