But with it having been out so long already, I don't really want to lay down over two grand if it's going to be replaced anytime soon.. I haven't been around here lately, but does anyone know if Canon is supposed to update this camera soon? I've been asked to shoot a friend's wedding this November, and if I can get the money together, I'd like to switch over to a FF cam by then..
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So, uh. I'm in the market for a 5D...
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The typical life cycle on Canons is about 16 months. The 5D came out in August of 2005, so it's probably getting close, but more than likely sometime next year. That, and also, the 1Ds II is due for an update before the 5D.
That being said, I guess the question I would have is what more can we really want from it? More pixels yields higher noise. Faster burst steps on the toes of the 1 series. I bought mine this February, and in all honesty, I simply don't see myself needing, or wanting another body for the next 10-15 years (or until my shutter stops working, which may be sooner at the rate I'm going).
That being said, I guess the question I would have is what more can we really want from it? More pixels yields higher noise. Faster burst steps on the toes of the 1 series. I bought mine this February, and in all honesty, I simply don't see myself needing, or wanting another body for the next 10-15 years (or until my shutter stops working, which may be sooner at the rate I'm going).
Toss a coin; it'll tell you as much as anybody else can. I had a chance to speak with a member of Canon Professional Services on Saturday, at PMA Australia; his response was basically, "No more new bodies in the pro or prosumer line this year, but there is an exciting announcement coming soon in a different area."
Of course, that's what a Canon employee would say - if they preannounce a body, they'll cannibalise sales of the old gear, just as happened to Osborne Computers. The time to buy is when you're ready for a new body, without regret for anything new that might be "just around the corner" - you could be waiting many years if you do that (witness the recently resurrected thread about the 1Ds Mark III from around a year ago.)
At a guess: better ISO (the 1D mark 3 has ISO noise levels a stop better than its predecessor.) More colour depth. Possibly higher resolution (if they put out a higher resolution 1Ds, they could migrate the 16 MP sensor to the 5D's successor ...) It's not all about resolution or frames per second.
The 5D might see the 16.7MP sensor from the 1DS MkII eventually, but it wouldn't be much of an upgrade (unless you're printing really large prints).
The 5D noise levels are incredibly low, I am amazed daily at what you can do at ISO1000 and 1250. I'd buy now.
The 5D noise levels are incredibly low, I am amazed daily at what you can do at ISO1000 and 1250. I'd buy now.
just like Apple frequently does with its top line, I think Canon will keep all its "pro" bells and whistles where they are. 
just like Apple frequently does with its top line, I think Canon will keep all its "pro" bells and whistles where they are.
Most likely. It depends on how much of their market share they see being eroded by Pentax and other companies putting weather sealing in their low end bodies, but I'd be surprised if that particular feature migrated down into the 5D or 1.6 crop bodies.
They'll put weather sealing on it because the Nikon D200, which was released only a bit after the 5D, had weather sealing for a lot less money than the 5D, and made Canon look bad in many ways.
Other than the weather sealing, I wouldn't change anything about the 5D. It produces less noise than any other DSLR camera, including the 1D models (but possibly excluding Fuji), and this is probably due to there being less pixels. The jump to 16 MP doesn't really offer much over 12 MP sensors, either. What do you get in terms of ability to make larger prints? The difference is very little.
Other than the weather sealing, I wouldn't change anything about the 5D. It produces less noise than any other DSLR camera, including the 1D models (but possibly excluding Fuji), and this is probably due to there being less pixels. The jump to 16 MP doesn't really offer much over 12 MP sensors, either. What do you get in terms of ability to make larger prints? The difference is very little.
It's because the pixels are larger (letting in more light) because they are spread out over a larger sensor. A 6MP DSLR will have far less noise than a 6MP Point-and-shoot because the sensor on the latter is so much smaller. You have to jam the same number of pixels into an area 2/3 the size. Pixel density = big deal for noise.
I am exactly in your shoes right now! I dont know what to pick between a 5D and a MarkIII.
The 5D might be a fine camera but there are still many things that can be improved upon which are important for the target audience:
- color depth
- higher workable ISO
- live preview / quick zoom
- weather seal (always nice!)
- better battery life
- please pretty please, include a battery grip?
So far, I am selling a lot of my stuff on Ebay and once I have about 2000$, I will have to think long and hard about this!
My guess is that they are going to update both the MarkIIs and the 5D at the same time, at least, I hope!
The 5D might be a fine camera but there are still many things that can be improved upon which are important for the target audience:
- color depth
- higher workable ISO
- live preview / quick zoom
- weather seal (always nice!)
- better battery life
- please pretty please, include a battery grip?
So far, I am selling a lot of my stuff on Ebay and once I have about 2000$, I will have to think long and hard about this!
My guess is that they are going to update both the MarkIIs and the 5D at the same time, at least, I hope!
Yes, of course I know this. This is why I suggest that they don't change the 5D. Giving it 16 MP would only be of marginal help if you're interested in printing at larger sizes, so other than producing noisier photos at high ISO, what are they going to accomplish by increasing the pixel count from 12 to 16 MP? If someone wants the best DSLR for low light photography, the 5Ds (or whatever it'll be called) would surely be worse than the 5D if the pixel count increased. If someone wants more pixels rather than better ISO performance, they can get a 1D series.
So again, stick to the addition of weather sealing,
What you say is true at 95%, pixel size isnt the only criteria, but its the one with the biggest impact for image quality / noise. The processor also do a chunk of the cleaning and a new 5D would have the new DIGIC3 cpu.
But I agree, 12mpx, is way enough! I would prefer faster focus and more focus points.
Well, the 20D is 8 MP (as is the 30D). The 5D is 12.8. 8 * 1.6 = 12.8.
So it's not all down to there being less pixels - if the 5D has lower noise than the 20/30D, there's something else going on there.
Then, too, consider the difference between the 1D mark 2 and the 1D mark 3: 8 MP versus 10, yet the mark 3 has ISO noise that's a stop better than the mark 2.
Kinda, but not quite. The 5D has a good reason for why it has better high ISO performance than the 20/30D
DPReview shows on this page from the 5D review the relative pixel sizes between the 20D, 5D, 1D Mark II, and 1Ds mark II, as well as a few Nikons. The 5D and 1D mark II have identical pixel sizes- the 5D sensor may be related to the Mark II. the 1Ds Mark II has smaller pixels, the 20D has even smaller pixels.
Meanwhile, the Mark III is a new generation of sensor (and even sensors from the same generation with minor tweaking can vastly improve performance, something that both canon and nikon do routinely) with a new design that allows for improved fill factor etc. etc. *insert technobabble* which means that despite the higher pixel density, it is a more efficient design.
Let's see ... 1D mark II is 8.2 MP, with a sensor size of (according to Pikiwedia) 28.7 × 19.1 mm. The 5D is 12.8 MP with a sensor size of 35.8 x 23.9 mm.
8.2 * 35.8 * 23.9 / 28.7 / 19.1 = just under 12.8 MP.
I'll stand corrected on that particular note.
Yes, which was my point: that pixel size is not the only factor involved in the level of noise put out by a given camera body. I should have been clearer in what I was arguing, and a hell of a lot more precise in my maths.
Ah - I see where I stuffed up - I was thinking of the crop factor as relating to the area, whereas it only relates to one linear dimension (height or width, take your pick.) If you'll excuse me, *hefts shovel* I have a hole to try to fill in. My bad.
The next big show is 10/18/2007 PhotoPlus Expo in NY
If it gets updated, it will be then with the 1Ds Mark II
You never know if a new camera will have bugs, and if you're shooting weddings you don't want to get the camera at the last minute.
That said, if you're not a wedding photographer, think *really* *really* hard about shooting a friend's wedding, they're not "do over" events and if you've got a single body, flash or low-light lens and it fails, you're going to have a very unhappy MOTB.
I've shot three weddings, and I'd honestly rather pay for someone else to do it. The one I thought went the best, had the most nailed and best-posed shots the bride *hated*, the one I thought was the worst, the bride *loved* and in all three cases, I really didn't get to enjoy my friends' weddings.
If you're dead-set on doing it, get the camera now and get good at shooting in the conditions you'll need to shoot in, get used to the controls and settings and get good at the formal shots. November isn't that far away if you're not a wedding shooter, especially if it's not going to just be a quick jaunt to the courthouse.
I think I may have not stated exactly what I meant in the first post.. I don't intend on buying the latest and greatest iteration of the 5D, I just mean, if a new version comes out and the current one takes a price drop, I don't want to have purchased it just months before. I just want to know if I should wait, and save a few hundred dollars.
Sounds like waiting won't really help, so I guess I better just keep saving, and buy it when I can, eh?
Sounds like waiting won't really help, so I guess I better just keep saving, and buy it when I can, eh?
That's the general rule when buying all electronics...unless you KNOW for sure that the item you are about to buy will be superseeded the next day, then just buy at the best price you can, when you are ready and have the money. Then forget about it. Do not look at current prices, newer models etc until you need to replace it.
great threadI'm in a similar boat. First, I am a long-time computer designer/geek + amateur photographer by all meansand have never owned a digital camera!
Here is my current rig: 1972 Olympus OM-1 with 50mm 1.8 lens (its my dadsI'm only 24). My largest complaint with digital cameras is edge detail/banding (I can spot it pretty far away) and highlight detail.
I think the canon 5D does great in its resolve detail
I have been conducting numerous research on "digital vs. film" and first, I love grain. If done right, it adds emotion & art, IMO. Anyway, to invest in digital, I want:
FF, since I have used this from the beginning
8+ MP (since it is argued 35mm is around 10+ MP at 400 ISO)
rugged body
edge detail, yet no banding
decent dynamic range in contrast
a lens with f1.8
Here is my conclusion so far: the Canon 5D (haven't researched lenses yet).
Is this a good camera to step into the digital world with?
I know no one can foresee the future, but did the recent Mark III steal the 5D's upgrade? Regardless of MP, resolving, I still feel pro-sumer digital cameras have "blotchy" almost artificial color saturation/gradation in uncontrolled lighting instances. I was hoping a new chip was on the way to bring 16 bit to the pro-sumer line.
Anyway, I'd love to hear comments/suggestions.
Thanks
Here is my current rig: 1972 Olympus OM-1 with 50mm 1.8 lens (its my dadsI'm only 24). My largest complaint with digital cameras is edge detail/banding (I can spot it pretty far away) and highlight detail.
I think the canon 5D does great in its resolve detail
I have been conducting numerous research on "digital vs. film" and first, I love grain. If done right, it adds emotion & art, IMO. Anyway, to invest in digital, I want:
FF, since I have used this from the beginning
8+ MP (since it is argued 35mm is around 10+ MP at 400 ISO)
rugged body
edge detail, yet no banding
decent dynamic range in contrast
a lens with f1.8
Here is my conclusion so far: the Canon 5D (haven't researched lenses yet).
Is this a good camera to step into the digital world with?
I know no one can foresee the future, but did the recent Mark III steal the 5D's upgrade? Regardless of MP, resolving, I still feel pro-sumer digital cameras have "blotchy" almost artificial color saturation/gradation in uncontrolled lighting instances. I was hoping a new chip was on the way to bring 16 bit to the pro-sumer line.
Anyway, I'd love to hear comments/suggestions.
Thanks
The only concern I have is that it may be more camera than you actually need. You might want to consider the 30D - it's not full frame, but it fits the rest of your criteria (well, maybe not "edge detail yet no banding", but I would expect you could deal with that by shooting in raw rather than JPEG.)
Lenses to consider, if you want f/1.8, are the 50mm and 85mm, and possibly something wider as well. Note that you'll only get f/2.0 or faster by going with primes, as the fastest zoom Canon makes are all f/2.8.
Nah. The 1D mark III is very much a sports and journalism camera. 10 frames per second is something very few people need. I would expect the other upgrades (especially the colour depth) to migrate to the 1Ds series very soon, and the other bodies in Canon's lineup over the next two to three years. Possibly less, possibly more - I'd expect it in the 5D or equivalent first, then the 30D or equivalent.
The 5D and 1D mk3 fit very different market segments. I love what Canon's done with the mark 3, but my next body will be either the 5D upgrade, or the 1Ds mark 3 (depending on money more than anything else.) The 1D just won't do what I want it to do (in particular, ultra wide angle.)
Bear in mind that speculation about future products is just that: speculation. We don't actually know anything for certain. The 5D is an excellent camera; if you want to buy now, by all means do so without regret for what may be coming soon.
Thanks sjl for the advice. I was looking at a 30D, but it is too old for me in this case: its just a 20D with some more menu features. And, sorry if I offend anyone, but I haven't been too impressed by the 20D and I have looked at pro's and amateurs alike as well as prints from 4x5 to 24x36 made from the 20D. Its a great camera, but it still looks pretty digital in the edges, but the 5D looks better. If the 30D had an upgraded sensor over the 20D, I'd get it.
I was rather disappointed in Canon's "upgrade" choice.
anyway . . .
If I'm switching lenses a lot, the dust issue kind of bothers me with the 5D. I'm sure the next generation will have a dust cleaner sensor, maybe I'll wait a little while longer. Dust is not my friend and shooting film/scanning with a low quality scanner just amplifies my dislike of dust. So, if those self-cleaning sensors are any good, I'm interested.
I was rather disappointed in Canon's "upgrade" choice.
anyway . . .
If I'm switching lenses a lot, the dust issue kind of bothers me with the 5D. I'm sure the next generation will have a dust cleaner sensor, maybe I'll wait a little while longer. Dust is not my friend and shooting film/scanning with a low quality scanner just amplifies my dislike of dust. So, if those self-cleaning sensors are any good, I'm interested.